Has dialogue and diplomacy been replaced by a rush to conflict? Are we heading into a major World Conflict based upon extreme differences in idealology. What is the bases for all of the hate being expressed worldwide? Is Global conflict the only answer? We are going from bad to worst by the use of Military Force. We are not winning with military action..why isn't dialogue with our enemies part of a solution to stop the senseless killing..instead of more killing.
I don't think there's much hope that Bush is going to use diplomacy to avoid conflict. His negotiating style is to give ultimatums to other countries. For example, instead of having negotiations with Iran over their nuclear program, he has Condi Rice tell them that we'll sit down with them only if they agree to stop their nuclear program. (What would be the point of negotiating with them then, if they were willing to do that?)
Bush acts that way even with friendly countries. Look at how he backed out of the Kyoto agreement on global warming. I really think that it's just not in his nature to negotiate with anybody, so unfortunately we will have to wait until we elect another president before diplomacy will have a chance to work.
But there is SOMETHING that Americans can do in the meantime. Have you ever heard of "citizen diplomacy?" It's a process in which private citizens reach out to citizens of other countries. If they make a breakthrough, the theory is that it can create impetus for the government to follow.
Here's the web site of the Coalition for Citizen Diplomacy (http://www.citizen-diplomacy.org), where you can find out more information about the movement.
Communicating with individuals overseas? Didn't our Government pass a law that allows evesdropping on any International contact? What if you were not knowingly contacting a site that is under observation by our government..for whatever reason, would your communication be scutinized and possibly constreued as a threat to national security? We are not the nation we use to be. Caution is to be used when expressing ones thoughts and projecting them abroad without the approval of the State Dept. We can however..keep sounding out here domesticly and vote out the bad apples in our Government.
I think the value of diplomacy is overrated. Didn't Clinton try negotiating with the North Koreans to end their nuclear weapons program? They just went ahead and made their bombs in secret. The Iranians will do the same thing, if we give them the chance. The fact is, the only way any of these countries will do what the U.S. wants is if they're compelled to by the threat--either direct or implied--of military confrontation.
For an example of how this forceful approach can work, look at the 1962 Cuban missile crisis. When JFK found out that the Soviets were putting missiles in Cuba, he confronted them with a naval blockade of the Island and the prospect of a nuclear showdown between the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. Khrushchev ended up backing down, because he knew that JFK meant business. (I think JFK was the last Democrat with some real backbone!) Things can work out for us the same way today, if we trust Bush and just let him follow his instinct not to compromise with anybody.
Actually, It was Jimmy Carter who set up the negotiations with then Pres. Kim ll-Sung. Bill Clinton was opposed to the meeting at first. I believe Jimmy Carter had 11 issues he wanted to get resolved at that not so secret meeting. He later said if he was able to negoitiate just one it was a step on the right direction. He negotiated all 11. The State department was reluctant to come to terms with some mutual benefits. The BIG issue was the Nuclear Plants that the U.S. was to build for the North Koreans..to supply them with cheap energy. The New type Reactors did not produce weapons grade plutonium. By agreeing to build these Nuke Plants the North Korean leader agreed to dismantle the old Nuke Plant Built by a combination of Russian and Chinese $$$ and technology. Plans were still on the table for this to happen throughout the latter part of the Clinton Administration..the Lewensky scandal and the Republican loaded congress kept this major national security issue in Limbo..Plans were constantly shot down by the republican dominated congress. When Bush and Co. took over..they S.Canned the whole project and thumbed their nose to North Korea..now ruled by Kim ll-Sung's son. It's not Bill Clinton Pal..it was the Republicans all along..and even now. Dialog & Diplomacy is what is needed..not more Saber rattleling..that as any fool can see has gotten us no wheres..& has made Big problems even Bigger as it continues today.
The Jimmy Carter initiative during the Clinton Administration is explained in detail in his book .."A moment of Crisis". A complete cronological accurate text on the 1994 Korean Crisis & Jimmy Carters envolvement. I saw the enterview with Carters and the then U.S. South korean ambassador on C span last year. It was very inlightening..and the Carters were very candid, (both Jimmy and Roselyn). In my opinion I think both President Carter and his wife Roselyn or truly great Americans. His administration was torpedoed by the politically agressive rightwing capitalist..which are at the heart of the problems the U.S. is mired in today. Dialogue & Diplomacy works only if the parties involved are sincere. Through the Carters dialogue with Kim ll Sung, the Clinton Administration was able to open doors that were previously shut and begin the process of establishing trust and common goals. Cowboy George rode into Washington and his posse burned the agreements that Carter work so hard for. The results are a N. korea with Nukes,..thanks to "W" and the boys. However now.. I am glad to see that the new talks with N. Korea are finally producing some incouraging signs. Some of the War Hawks are citicizing the oil supplements & aid package to N.Korea for non nuclear proliferation as a sell out. N. Korea has little or no economy..it is a very poor country that needs help..and wants to maintain some dignity on the world stage. Whats a few hundred million or even a couple of Billion dollars of aid going to hurt. ( The War contractors in Iraq are bilking the U.S. Treasury of Billions), The alternative could cost 100's of billions. War in the region with N. Korean could escalate into a nuclear exchange and bring in China, Russia, Japan, Tiawan..there are a lot of old axes to grind in that area..a tinderbox of pent up hatred that could be ignited into an all out conflict. We don't want to see Japan begin a military expansion again. We've seen that before, remember there are extremist in every country looking for opportunity. We and the nations in the region should work to establish a solvant and stabilized North Korea, and then work can be done to promote human rights afterwards. Commerce and foriegn investment are the vehicles for human rights reform. Viet Nam, ( still officially communist ), is a shining example of this kind policy. Perhaps China, Viet Nam, and maybe N. Korea are establishing a New idealology..Capitalistic communism..??? Finally the light came on in the Bush administration, I applaud the inititive. Now if we could just apply that kind of thinking to the mid east. Pay a little.. for opportunities to avert war...or Pay a ton.. in lives lost and treasure wasted by going to war. It's all COMMON SENSE. We need to buy some time in the Persian Gulf region and the mid east to find New energy resources here at home. Dialogue and Diplomacy is the ticket to do just that..not aggression and war. You can't threaten & kill people into thinking the way you want them to. Dialog and diplomacy is the right path to solving differences between opposing views.
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The interview with the Carters last aired on October 28,2006..on C Span 2. I think it can be pulled up at the C Span web site. I truly came away with a whole new appreciation for Jimmy Carter's ability to negotiate, and with Mrs. Carters dedication to her husbands legacy through her unwavering support. She said at first she was scared for their safety..since the meeting was unsanctioned by our State Dept. He and Mrs. Carter established contact through clandestine channels and financed the visit with private funding. The Clinton administration was totally against the visit, but came around after poitive results were realized from a direct written document from Kim ll Sung to Bill Clinton..confirming Carters progress. Which at first the State Dept. refuse to acknowledge. That qualifies one, ( actually Both President & Mrs. Carter) for statesmanship in my book. Statesmenship a lost attribute in this day and age.
Pat K. would you do me a favor? I have a friend over in Louisiana who is a Math Professor, (part time activist..ha, ha), He is interested in joining the forums can you send me a quick link on my company's e-mail so I may forward it to him so he can join..e-mail to techscape@cox.net I explained to him about the filters and the censoring..he's ok with that..I also told him that you are a fair moderator and incourages one to express their views. He also likes the idea of the forums not having a ton of participants..so if you have room for another active poster please send the info. He is well educated & stays informed on domestic and international issues. He lives in the heart of the Louisiana Oil Patch and on the edge of the Katrina and Rita hurricane catastrophic devestations. (right in between the two hurricane strike zones). He may be able to bring some 1st hand info. to threads that may come up, especially Energy.. We don't necessarily share the same views, so his post more than likely will not be a clone to my opinions. He is an old college friend of mine, and I respect his knowledge of a wide range of subjects. Thanks..Koonism
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Sorry, I was out for a couple of days because my son was home from school (snow days). I think things will be picking up again today. btw, I just e-mailed that link to you.
Thanks again..will post tomorrow going to son's 1st district baseball game of the 2007 prep season. he's on 1st today but starts as pitcher for fridays game. he is off to a good start after 2 games an ERA of 1.76 and his batting avg is 571. Trying to get him in position for at least a jr. College Scholarship. Later..KOONISM
Dialogue and diplomacy have worked in the past, to resolve differences between nations. But I am wondering whether the maddening, multi-dimensional complexity of today's world situation illustrates the limits of such an approach. Today, the big conflicts seem to be between religious sects (Sunnis and Shiites, for example) or between nations and stateless movements or ideologies (the U.S. and Al Qaeda). How can two religious sects negotiate a peace settlement, when each of them has an intractible set of beliefs which conflict with the others? And how can a nation negotiate with a movement that is composed of loosely linked players all over the world who act independently?
The common denominator that gels dialogue into positive diplomacy..is and always has been..Power & Money. With a slight change in attitude a willingness to listen and financial incentatives to promote co-operation so that each party can save face, the fires of war and conflict can be doused..be it even for a temporary period in time. This allows a timeout for opposing sides to re-evaluate Gains opposed to losses from continued hostilities. In other words is conflict really the only answer to moving forward as an idealogy..a movement..a religion. Or will losses be paramont to the point recovery will be impossible. Those questions can be answered through direct & candid dialogue between opposing parties. Diplomacy or continued conflict will be the results of those Dialogues. It at least needs to be pursued and given a chance to work. The opposite would be Shock & Awe..More Surges, increased suicide and IED bombings, more carnage and treasure lost.
Speaker Pelosi has taken the first step in establishing the groundwork or a template for dialogue. Syria first and then perhaps Iran next. By engaging the Syrian Regime into diplomatic talks, others hostile towards our current administration may find it in their best interest to come to the table for talks. This is a positive sign that a change is coming..an alternative to Chaos and mass killings in a war with no for-see-able end in sight. Of course those that want and engage in war see this as a threat to their agenda..on both sides of the conflict. I hope the current administration's negative attitude towards this process, (although only political at this time), does not evolve into steps that could stiffle these talks through official government decrees or via executive mandates. The State Department should get on board...This process of dialogue & Diplomacy is the only alternative to ending this war through establishing a withdrawal of troops from an honorable position. An "Honorable Position" supported through and by consensus from nations in the region. The world is watching & nations around the globe would like to see an end to the bloodshed. I applaude Speaker Pelosi for taking the innitiative and having the courage to make a Bold international statement. Dialogue and Diplomacy is still alive and is available to resolve differences. Common sense and reasoning are always a better options than Mayhem & Carnage. Go Nancy!
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Yeah, I don't understand why Bush is all up in arms about her visiting Syria. Especially since, according to Reuters,she's actually making some real diplomatic progress:
DAMASCUS (Reuters) - U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, on a visit to Syria opposed by the White House, said on Wednesday she conveyed an Israeli message to President Bashar al-Assad that the Jewish state was ready to resume peace talks.
Pelosi, the most senior U.S. official to visit Syria in more than two years, said Assad told her he was also ready for negotiations with Israel. Syria wants the return of the Golan Heights, captured by Israel in the 1967 Middle East war.
"(Our) meeting with the president enabled us to communicate a message from Prime Minister (Ehud) Olmert that Israel was ready to engage in peace talks as well," Pelosi told reporters in Damascus after talks with Assad.
"We were very pleased with the reassurances we received from the president that he was ready to resume the peace process. He was ready to engage in negotiations (for) peace with Israel," she added.
Syrian Foreign Minister Walid al-Moualem said that Syria was ready to resume talks with Israel based on an Arab peace plan calling for Israeli withdrawal from all Arab land for peace adopted at a summit last month.
They said that Mr. Olmert is ready for peace with Syria. We replied that Syria is ready for peace according to the Arab initiative," he told reporters.
Peace talks between Syria and Israel, centered on normal ties in return for the Golan Heights, collapsed in 2000.
An Israeli government official told Reuters that during a visit to Israel before her Syria trip, Pelosi had asked Olmert if he had any message to give to Assad.
"The prime minister said Israel is interested in peace with Syria, but Syria would first have to abandon the path of terror and providing support for terrorist groups," the official said.
here's more: Pelosi described the meeting with Assad as "very productive" and said it was important that Syria use its influence with Palestinian group Hamas, whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel, to promote Israeli-Palestinian peace.
I think Pelosi's mission to the middle east and the persian gulf states will be looked upon in the very near future as a turning point in U.S. foriegn policy. She is letting the leaders of these nations know that there is a change a coming. Dialogue and Diplomacy will be the tools to stop the violence that has enveloped that whole region since 1948. We must listen to what these people have to say..instead of demanding that they do what we want them to do. Those days are over. The BIG STICK POLICY days of Teddy Roosevelt is over...unless we want to Bomb everyone into submission. That is not working, and has not worked in the past. The War Hawks in the Pentagon need to chill out..we are not going to be allowed to take over the world like some of these idiots think we should. The New World Order..has turned into The New World Disorder..thanks to the right wing neo republican facist embedded in our government. I'm not saying all republicans are Bad..just that a great many of them are brainwashed through the policy of being wealthy and having power makes one mighty. Might makes right....Wrong..history has proven that accumulation of wealth and power at the expense of the masses leads to anarchy and revolution. Well, they have had their collective day in the Sun..now their star is waning. W. Bush is the best thing that could have happen to the Democratic party ince F.D.R. Once this war is ended the Militants in Washington thrown out and Dialogue and Diplomacy becomes the norm rather that the exception as an alternative to conflict, I think the world will calm down and address the real problems facing the planet. Problems such as population, cures for disease, the health of the climate and the ecology, education, new energy, etc. Instead of my Guns and my bombs are better than yours, my idealogy should be yours too, I'm the boss & you better do what I say ..or else. I'm not an idealalist.. I realize that there are people in this world with power mongering intentions...we just don't need them running our Government. Common sense fueled by large doses of reality derived from intel gained through Dialogue with our neighbors around the world is the key to a productive and stable 21st century. Nancy Pelosi has taken the first steps to begin the process of this dialogue so the healing process can begin. Cowboy mouth needs to shut up, saddle up, take his posse with him and hit the trail. What he has to say these days don't amount to a hill of beans anymore.
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