This is being driven into a war about religions We in the country have our own terrious called the KKK whom claim to be christen. So we need to look closely at what is going on here...
Most Americans see that not all Muslims are terroists but all the terroists that we discussing are Muslim. Why has the Muslim community been so silent on what people are doing in the name of their religion? WHere is their outrage? Americans would be more apt to be sypathethic to the Muslim community and the situation they have been placed by the terrorist organizations but there seems to be no concerted effort to appeal to the American people that they are part of the solution.
The ACLU is not pro American rights , they are anti-Bush!
Originally posted by jenniferg57: Why has the Muslim community been so silent on what people are doing in the name of their religion? WHere is their outrage?
I've heard that said numerous times before, and I would imagine that it must be frustrating to the many, many Muslim leaders and organizations who have spoken out against terrorism. Here's a web page with links to statements by the Council on American-Islamic Relations and other Muslim groups in the U.S. and the world.
Beyond that, I'm not sure why all Muslims across the world should be obligated to speak out against acts committed by a few terrorists who also happen to be Muslims? But assuming they are, does that mean that all Americans are obligated to speak out against, say, the abuses at Abu Ghraib or the alleged massacre at Haditha? Or does it only work in one direction?
The ACLU is not pro American rights , they are anti-Bush!
That is such an ignorant accusation. The ACLU has been around for decades fighting for Constitutional rights of all Americans, liberal, conservative, Christian, Muslim, black, white, et al.
I think it's foolish to blame over 100,000,000 people for the problems of a few extremists. Too many times people blame Islam, when Islam is being twisted and used for the goals of people, not the goals of Islam.
Muslims are speaking against terrorism, if you are paying attening, there is quite a bit of this "speaking out" going on.
Originally posted by jenniferg57: Most Americans see that not all Muslims are terroists but all the terroists that we discussing are Muslim.
Have you read an English translation of the Q'ran? If you had you might realize that the terrorists are not Muslim in the true sense of the term. "Islam" is Arabic for peace.
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Why has the Muslim community been so silent on what people are doing in the name of their religion?
They haven't been. Even Yassir Arafat called President Bush on 9/11 and expressed his shock and horror at what happened. Arafat was Muslim.
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WHere is their outrage?
That's your perview; right along with misinformation.
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Americans would be more apt to be sypathethic to the Muslim community and the situation they have been placed by the terrorist organizations but there seems to be no concerted effort to appeal to the American people that they are part of the solution.
Another run-on sentence that defies intepretation.
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The ACLU is not pro American rights , they are anti-Bush!
"Newark: - The American Civil Liberties Union of New Jersey announced today that it successfully obtained a court order dismissing a libal suit filed against the Piscataway Republican Organization and it's recent slate of candidates for township offices."
Even Yassir Arafat called President Bush on 9/11 and expressed his shock and horror at what happened. Arafat was Muslim.
It shoudl also be noted that there were over a million people on the streets of Tehran, Iran after 9/11 to show their support for the US, and their grief for the tagedy of the unjst action. This happened all over the world, but Tehran is a worthy note considering the place we hold Iran in right now.
Originally posted by destroyideas: It shoudl also be noted that there were over a million people on the streets of Tehran, Iran after 9/11 to show their support for the US, and their grief for the tagedy of the unjst action. This happened all over the world, but Tehran is a worthy note considering the place we hold Iran in right now.
You come up with some interesting stuff here. It really adds to the debate.
Many of the comments made today about Muslims and why 9/11 happened could also apply to American Christian Fundamentalists. No tolerance, hate diversity, hate modernity, hate plurality, want everyone to worship like they do, they want women to stay home and men to go to prayer meetings. I don't see much of a difference there. Oddly enough, though, the Christian Fundamentalists love Bush; guess it's that blind faith.
Re: Christian Fundamentalism As someone who grew up in a closed Christian Fundamentalism home and church (and left home as soon as I could!) I have often thought about this parallel between them and the fundamentalist Muslims: the hate and fear are definitely part of that world's every day life. From this perspective the two are very similar. The main difference from personal observation is that Christianity reveres life, and although you may differ philosophically with fundamental Christianity, they do not seek to physically annhilate all those who disagree with them. Their view is that judgment belongs to God alone. Fundamentalist Islam, on the other hand, reveres death (as quoted by Osama himself) and sees judgment as the mission of the individual jihadist. Any other thoughts on this?
Some of this is interesting, but I'm afraid we're starting to drift into a debate about religion, and away from the topic of the Ted Koppel program--i.e., the conflict between the Bush Administration's anti-terror policies and civil liberties.
How does religion figure in that conflict? Are U.S. intelligence and law enforcement agencies justified in probing U.S. Muslim organizations and communities for terror links? Or is that an infringement of American Muslims' constitutional rights? Is there an acceptable balance that can be struck?
Apology for the drift, which is of course natural in conversation, but I believe it is the fact that religion is their basic drive. Thus, the general group description "Muslims."
This whole threat stems from events of the past which were undoubtedly religious motivations. Even on our own part. It can't be denied that america helped "re-establish" the Jewish state of Israel in 1947 based on our beliefs of the Christian majority which makes up our country. A country in which children can no longer pray to their God or Allah. My inevitable involvement in this whole mess offended my at first as if I should be exempt, because I am neither Jew, Christian, or Muslim. But I realized I am not exempt because I would still be an infidel to these extremists. So I no longer feel offended by exemption, I instead feel defensive. So I ask "what can we as civilians do in our defense?" I think the most valuable thing I can do is to offer my hand out to my neighbors for a hand shake, and stir up brotherly conversation with each other- especially those who are different from ourself. I would like also a brief piece of airtime in the muslim TV to plea on our behalf. And ask these extremists and the people who have been forced and influenced under naivity and fear "WHY!!?" with tears rolling for all who have suffered. What is so important and immediately necessary that you would target civilians and children intentionally to be heard. "What is it that I have to do?"
Originally posted by sirbrooks: Apology for the drift, which is of course natural in conversation, but I believe it is the fact that religion is their basic drive. Thus, the general group description "Muslims."
I'm sorry for the generalization "Muslim extremists"
Hello, I recently posted a short piece about the history of Islam. I did some research and gathered information out of the World Almanac & Book Of Facts(An authority since 1868). I posted some controversial facts, from the Book Of FACTS--an authority, ..not personal opinions. From what is written: IRAN, originally the seat of the Persian Empire, originally founded by Cyrus the Great in 596BC, became the SASSANIAN PERSIANS by 226 AD. The Persian Empire, (ie. the Sassain Persians..present day Iran), was the ruling power at the time of the birth of Islam which took place around 611 AD, when it's founder Mohammed announced a revelation from THE ONE TRUE GOD. Mohammed was 40 years old at the time of his announcement, and resided in the province of MECCA. A province of Sassanian Persia, (Present day IRAN). Now the events that took place during that period and moving forward to about 722 AD, create some controversial views. Views that are cronilogicaly supported based on ancient writtings and artifacts. Views not accepted as fact by the radical Islamic movemement. Views that are obscured by and influenced by Being Politically Correct at this juncture in time. A time when facts must be accepted and decissions made from. We are in the midst of another Global Ideology Conflict. The same thing that caused the last two world wars. The difference in this New World Crisis from the past, is that this clash has all of the trappings of the Crusades, which took place around 1095 AD. But with a new demension added to this Mordern day Crusade, That is what The new Leaders of Islam, has recently called it, aside from Jihad). Yes, the New Demention has the influence of oil as a catalyst and a tool for assuming great power. On a continuation of the origin of the Shi'ite Sect on my next Post. (Again, if I am allowed to continue).. I will try to explain the Power of the Shi'ite Sect, (Iran is 95% Shi'ite). Explain how it came to be, why it is percieved as the true word of Mohammed, and why Iran as a nation is using it's almost Devine Status as the Pillar of the Shi'ite Sect, as the New Mecca of The Islamic Fundelmenalist Movement. If I am allowed to continue..I will also show, through history, what has been the Agenda of past Jihads,(holy wars).Perhaps we may be allowed to open the door to some sort of hypothesis of what might be expected today and in the near future from Islam. After putting these facts together and moving towards a pridictable scenrio, perhaps a scary picture emerges, perhaps not so scary. Should we Bolt from realising and preparing for the worst, should we continue to be Niave or Uninformed? Couple up the Goals Of Islamic fundementalist with the access to unlimited funds and the ability to project Weapons of Mass Distrution & by all means of applying optimism to your views you will see the dangers around us that are gathering. Or are they? I hope I am able to continue. Note: I posted a new topic under Ted Koppels forum.."The emphasis on being Politically Correct and how it affects the truth". Please give me your views. I am not trying to hijack the forums, I am interested in others views especially on controversial subjects. There is no NICE way of saying something is bad and wrong...except to say it! Lets talk about it, without the muzzel on. ...Koonism
This message has been edited. Last edited by: koonism,
From George Mason University's History News Network, here's an basic primer about the differences between the two sects of Islam, and why it matters.
Here also is Wikipedia's article on Shi'a Islam. Since it's Wikipedia, I can't vouch for the absolute correctness of all the information in it, but to this non-Muslim it seems that the author (a Shi'ite?) has done a fairly conscientious job of explaining the sect's beliefs and history.
If they claim war against us, then what are their terms? What do we have to do to get them to stop cutting off our heads, blowing up school buses, etc?
What if we packed up all the Jews and let them stay here? We could pretend that we didn't squat Israel on their land and that's not why they really want to kill us.
What about all the times we put our nose in their business as we pretend to involve ourselves only for their best interest (with our fingers crossed behind our backs).
My basic opinion about the crap in Iraq has always been that I supported ousting Saddam than immediately appearing to have left. You should notice I said appear to have left. What happened to doing a favor and leaving a business card? For God's sake (or Allah), Big brother is never far away. Could we not return and [deleted by moderator] again if needed? I saw on Star Trek that intergalactic code was to disturb the culture of other life forms as little as possible. After we did oust Saddam, we were cheered. When we stuck around and inevitably smacked around more and more of their locals who all obviously were not insurgent (Remember the above mentioned cheering), only a fool would not suspect that the local population would begin to have slight animosity toward us.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: pat_k,
Hey, Mr. Pat K, Please check, I made a reply yesterday evening a message came up when I sent it saying it needed approved before posting. ?. I do admit to having unorthodoxed views, but I did not attack anyone. Thank you, sirbrooks
Sirbrooks: I just retrieved it from the moderation queue and posted it. The problem, I think, was that you used the expression "kicked a--" which, benign as it might seem, is one of the words that triggers the filter software. You might want to substitute "gluteus maximus" in the future.
