Hello, My name is Gaby and I'm an Animal rights activist.I'm only like 14 and I watch the show.
I noticed that Clinton and Stacy have recommended leather and fur a couple of times.I am strictly against wearing animal skin.Many people just think of this as fashion but the thing is, most people dont know what they do to the animals.The poor animals are beaten,slaughtered,tortured,and killed in the cruelest way. I would really like to reach the show producer him self to ask him to stop the use of leather and fur in the show. I ask every woman who reads this to help stop the use of animal skin. Please, we have to stop this.

If you would like to join the other Thousands of people against this, visit
furisdead.com

Gaby, while I never wear fur and avoid leather except for shoes, I don't think it's fair to tell other people how to spend their money. I'm sure that the many people who do use animal products know what happens to the animals and use them anyway. It's a personal decision. The best you can hope for is to create awareness for the issue and persuade others to adopt your position. Forcing others to obey your views, via encouraging a ban on animal products for the show, is only going to create animosity. Not to mention, Stacy and Clinton have done several shows for environmentalists using vegan and "green" products. They really provide a wide spectrum of options for women. Some women, like you, will fall more in the vegan category, but others really do love a fur coat. It's all about diversity.

quote:

Originally posted by siepres:
Gaby, while I never wear fur and avoid leather except for shoes, I don't think it's fair to tell other people how to spend their money. I'm sure that the many people who do use animal products know what happens to the animals and use them anyway. It's a personal decision. The best you can hope for is to create awareness for the issue and persuade others to adopt your position. Forcing others to obey your views, via encouraging a ban on animal products for the show, is only going to create animosity. Not to mention, Stacy and Clinton have done several shows for environmentalists using vegan and "green" products. They really provide a wide spectrum of options for women. Some women, like you, will fall more in the vegan category, but others really do love a fur coat. It's all about diversity.

Im not telling anyone how to spend their money.The only thing im asking is to take this in reconsideration. A numerous amount of animals die every single day for your coats, purses, belts, shoes,etc. And if you know what happens to the animals in order for you to have your coat, and you still go ahead and buy it, its just sad.

Gaby, are you a vegan also?

The show has accomodated vegans on several occasions with natural fiber clothing or thrift clothes, and non-animal based cosmetics.

Have they really recommended fur? I don't remember that.
Almost all shoes are made out of leather, and it's hard to find a decent pair of boots to keep your feet warm in that winter that aren't leather.

quote:

Originally posted by gaby_o_O:
I would really like to reach the show producer him self to ask him to stop the use of leather and fur in the show.

Eliminating animal products showcased in the program is tantamount to telling people how to spend their money. In fact, if Stacy and Clinton forced every makeover contestant to use their $5000 on strictly vegan products, then that really would be the case. I commend you for taking a stand on the issue and trying to create awareness, but there's an old expression (which is an ironic choice given the nature of this discussion): "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." Saying people are "sad" because they don't agree with your opinion is not going to persuade anyone to change viewpoints.

Agnieszka, that's an excellent point too. Almost all decent shoes are made from leather. The vegan shoes available are usually overpriced and with the exception of some much higher-end lines, they're cheaply made.

If you go with synthetics, some of them are made from petroleum products and do not degrade. So that is not ecologically responsible either.

(I admit I have not see 100% of the episodes, but have they EVER recommended fur?)

Well..Im not entirely sure if it was that they recommended fur but on occasions there were
fur jackets.

Were these jackets in the original wardrobe they were throwing away? Do you recall which episodes there were fur jackets shown and were they in stores they were shopping in?

Gaby, I will cut you some slack since you are only "like 14".......

You will gain far more credibility for your cause if you are accurate and precise in your statements.

Which is it...........?

"I noticed that Clinton and Stacy have recommended leather and fur a couple of times."

OR

"Well..Im not entirely sure if it was that they recommended fur but on occasions there were fur jackets."

It helps to be able to cite particular episodes or at least the name of the MO, rather than a vague "on occasion".

Stay passionate about your cause, but keep it accurate.

Hi Gaby- I respect your opinion and your passion for this cause. However your post hasn't really educated me or done anything to change my mind. I like leather products because leather is a wonderful material. Yet I am still against beating, torturing and cruelty to animals. I would like to know if there are leather products available made from animals that were not tortured, and were killed in the least cruel way?

Another way you can influence people on this board is to post links to vegan products you think are great and tell us why. Maybe people will buy more of these if they know more about them.

I like to shop at thrift stores a lot. Sometimes I buy leather things there. Earlier this month, I found a beautiful leather jacket at a thrift store. I believe, I didn't cause the animal to be killed if I buy a used jacket that had been donated to charity. You may or may not agree with me on this point, but I hope you understand I am entitled to my opinion and to my values and have a right to buy or not buy and wear or not wear leather (or fur!).

I haven't personally seen any episode where they recommended fur, but definitely remember they recommended leather jackets several times. But they always take the MO's values into account, so if you, Gaby, went on the show they would not recommend fur or leather for you.

No, I really agree with you on the animal rights thing. But the fashion industry is like that. I feel that robbing an animal of its right to live for what I feel is a trivial "fashion" statement, is very heartless and cruel thing indeed. Don't fight the show though, fight the industry. You will get nowhere by adressing What Not to Wear, since they don't have the ability to choose what's for sale in the stores.

But good luck to you, I hope you find progress in your struggle for animal rights. I'll be doing the same.

Given that in general leather is a by-product of the meat industry, I think in order for you to do away leather you would have to do away with meat from the food chain. With rare exception, it seems that with leather the industry is just using all parts of the cow, which is going to be slaughtered anyway to be put on the dinner table.

I am quite passionate about the earth and the environment and I find that so-called animal friendly leather is far less animal friendly in the long term than you are being led to believe. Fake leather is plastic, and plastic comes from petrochemicals, something that is know to be quite toxic to the earth and all creatures on the earth. Some of the most toxic substances know to humanity come from the oil industry and many of these are used in plastics. By buying plastic shoes (which is what the so-called animal friendly vegan shoes are made from) you haven't saved one single animal from dying, indeed you have contributed to a far greater problem facing the world, global pollution of the oceans; destruction of rainforests, jungles, and the arctic; toxic waste from the refining process required to turn crude oil into the raw materials that make plastic; and the issue of overflowing landfills The plastic itself is will not rot when discarded and it will leach harmful chemicals into the eco system when discarded in a landfill, poisoning the earth and the groundwater. Leather is biodegradable and will eventually return to the earth.

The issue is far more complex than "OMG a poor animal dies" The alternatives to leather need to be closely examined as many -such as plastics -do far more long term damage to the environment and subsequently kill far more animals. And the reality is that farm animals are not beaten, tortured, skinned alive and murdered, not if a farmer want to turn a profit and keep his farm. All the farmers I know try to keep their animals as happy and healthy as possible to maximize the returns on their investments.

You might want to research this complex issue beyond peta sponsored propaganda sites. There are many sides to this issue, it's certainly not clear cut black-and-white Wrong-and-right, good versus evil. Visit farms, visit animal shelters, learn about how fake leathers are made, learn about the toxic chemicals stew that's needed to make fake fur. The reality is that if we stop buying leather it still won't prevent cows from dying. Everything dies, cows won't become immortal and live forever and live in cow-heaven-on-earth. All animals will die, it's a fact of life. As for me, I'll stick to all natural good for the earth leather.

what a great post, i am very much with you on this issue. this is how i feel about it too. when Natalie Portman came out with her non-leather 380 dollar sandals i thought: hmm, to the fashionista those babies will be in the landfill soon. and still there 100 years from now. these animals we're trying to protect will die of hunger/exposure/poisoning. i also believe that all those petroleum products (and especially those people are putting on their bodies to soften, etc) are potentially harmful because as you explained, they don't go away. they stay. we think botox injections are iffy but vaseline rub every day, whoohoo! "my skin stays soft forever" (and i'm thinking...yea, think about that!)
my soap? dr bronner's all organic peppermint liquid soap. my body lotion? almond and coconut oils. healthy skin and hair? daily flaxseed oil intake. i'll stick to leather sandals too, thankyouverymuch.
have a great day~

Ok, and PETA is against milking cows too. Have you ever seen a cow's teets it the cow hasn't been milked? No. Well I guess you've never been on a farm. Get to a farm and milk some cows and goats. Get to see what the animals were put on the earth for. PETA would have us let all the animals loose. Including my 12 lb. poodle. They don't believe any animals should ever "owned" by humans. Yeah, right. That would be a good thing. Sorry, I'm a true carnavor. Just like a cat. I need my meat, chicken and fish. Stop listening to all the absurd stuff the animal activists are drooling all over the internet. Try living on a farm for a few years before you start spewing stuff that you don't understand. I know. I grew up on a farm. I wish we still had the family farm.

Another farm kid here. Farmers care for their animals so the animals are healthy & productive--of milk, meat, eggs, hides.

If we really want to protest something--how about those shows glorifying babies? Aren't they using up our planet's resources too? Those bridal shows that promote the excessive consumerism for one day could be next?

I am genetically urban, and so it was a bit out of my comfort zone for me when my research on congregations and clergy took me to some very rural areas in the English Midlands last year.

Everyone who romanticises the 'English countryside' has to remember that it isn't the work of nature--keeping that landscape so beautiful is largely the work of farmers caring for land and animals. And hard work it is, too, and not something any of these folk get rich off. No animal is better cared for than one that is used in the production of meat or milk.

The other thing that's really important is making sure there are enough bees. I try to buy natural beeswax candles, personal products, and local honey, etc., partly because they're nice, and partly because good beekeeping practices increases the number of bees. And without bees, we lose about 90% of our food supply, because so much of what we eat (or feed to our meat and milk and egg producing livestock) relies on bees for pollination.

Animal testing? If it's for a life-saving or enhancing drug or procedure, I'm actually okay with it? For a new face cream? No bunny needs to go blind because I can't stand a little bit of dry skin.

So, I'm not 'vegan friendly' either.

For a long time I have felt there is a lot of hypocrisy and general ignorance in the PETA and vegan camps. As has been noted if you don't wear leather in your shoes--which is a natural fiber and allows your feet to breathe better when they're in shoes--you're wearing plastic derivatives, which don't decompose, and usually are tougher to repair, and therefore go into the garbage more quickly.

I think Cathlib has said it most beautifully and succintly. I find people who work on farms have a better understanding of animals than the activists who rarely really get deeply engaged with the actual animals. It just makes them feel warm and fuzzy inside. I'll trust a farmer or rancher anyday over an activist.

Thank you, Matt, for your kind words

The difference between the care for animals shown by an activist, and that shown by an agricultural worker, is twofold. First, as you said, the activist, especially the 'humans shouldn't own animals' sort, rarely has much experience of animals (even, if they're true to their principles of human non-ownership, housepets).

Second, and related, they can switch their concern off as needed, because the animals aren't relying on them in any way--human 'ownership' and 'exploitation' of animals for meat, milk, eggs, involves responsibility and care. One of the women who works at the college is married to a shepherd on the Oxford University Farms (Oxford is a major target for 'animal rights' demonstrations--partly because it's so pretty to have a protest here, and it looks so good on the evening news). Since I've known her, there have been outbreaks of liver fluke and blue-tongue disease amongst the sheep. That means quarantining and round the clock care. When her husband called one day saying he'd be late because the sheep needed extra care, she asked when he wanted dinner. He said 'perhaps'.

Animals don't run on human schedules, and have needs that don't correspond to our desires for eating, sleeping, recreation.

You can predict when a protest rally is going to be and mark it in your BlackBerry, you can throw red paint at fur coats at your convenience. It's a fantasy-land way of 'caring' for animals. When you rely on animals for your livelihood, your real-life hands-on care is all-consuming.

Anytime!

I note that everytime someone posts about fur, the conversation immediately turns to ridiculing some of the more extreme views in the animal rights movement, ignoring the legitimate concerns they raise about wanton cruelty to animals. Overstock.com has announced that it will no longer sell fur products. Here is an explanation by Overstock's CEO which makes excellent sense to me. (And I am a farm girl.)

Sailing, I think fur is a different thing--few fur animals are raised for food, and yes, there is much wanton cruelty.

But do note that the young lady who originally posted said that she would like to see an end to 'leather and fur', and she is 'strictly against wearing animal skin'.

I won't wear fur, because I won't wear the skin of an animal I can't eat (okay, I've eaten rabbit, so I guess in principle I could wear rabbit; I've also eaten rattlesnake). But I'll wear cow, sheep, and pig leather because I'll eat beef, lamb, and pork.

The reverse isn't true, though. I'll eat animals I won't wear. Chicken leather just seems.... weird

I had no idea that you could even tan stingray skins! (Much less wear THESE shoes!! Whoa!)

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