Bark, you seem to come on more as an agnostic individual. You don't know what to believe in. What's it going to hurt you if you at least try to acknowledge Gods existence. It sure beats the alternative of not believing in nothing. It might even give you a fresh perspective to life.

quote:

Originally posted by Barkwhisker:
Where did god come from?

some things dade back too far to find out the origin

part of my proof is your lack of proof

Where did God come from? We can never comprehend that, as far as our universe and every definition of time we have, He has always been. The strongest angels are said to constantly sing a song of praise, saying that God was, is, and ever shall be- Hayah, Yahveh, Yihyeh. We are comparable to a fish tank or an ant farm, we go about our lives and every so often, one of us will be able to see part of someone who exists completley outside our world.

And most things can be dated, we know the age of our universe, nothing of this world can be older than the universe that it exists in.

And to your last remark, it goes both ways. Your lack of proof that there is no God is proof that God is one who is as undefinable and inexplicable as He is written to be.

hey animus do you have aim or msn cus replying on here takes ages
mines lilchimpmunk9@aol.com
same for msn.

quote:

Where did God come from? We can never comprehend that, as far as our universe and every definition of time we have, He has always been.

This is part of my point: If something has always been than it never started and if it never started it is not going on now(in this case existing).

I'm honestly surprised so many people are here are so faithful considering your on the discovery channel site. If you are on discovery.com, you have obviously viewed one or more of it's programs. Since it' all about science it is shocking that not many of you are for the whole evolution thing as apposed to god. Does that make sense?

quote:

Originally posted by Barkwhisker:

quote:

Where did God come from? We can never comprehend that, as far as our universe and every definition of time we have, He has always been.

This is part of my point: If something has always been than it never started and if it never started it is not going on now(in this case existing).

That's only if we define it by the human definition of time, not Kairos, God's time. There are more worlds than the one we know. I don't mean different planets or galaxies, but alternate planes of existence altogether, it was mathematically proven only a few months ago. Each world has its own time independent from every other world. God doesn't exist because He isn't confined to the limited infinity of existence. Being outside of existence, we can't define Him existing. The paradox of the situation is that He must exist otherwise existence can't exist because there is nothing else outside of it to call non-existant. With nothing non-existant, there is nothing to define existence as existing, ergo existence can't exist without the existing Non-existance.

quote:

Originally posted by shumeperson:
hey animus do you have aim or msn cus replying on here takes ages
mines lilchimpmunk9@aol.com
same for msn.

Sorry, mate, never use those. IM's mean that the conversation will die off or tangent within fifteen minutes, here the discussions can go on for days, weeks, even months. Plus when a conversation ends on IM, it's over and erased, on here the information stays for years to help the next generation after we have all gone on to bigger and better things. Sure it is slow and you have to wait for responses, but the pros out weigh the cons.

lol i got pwned but yea pros are better than cons

quote:

That's only if we define it by the human definition of time, not Kairos, God's time. There are more worlds than the one we know. I don't mean different planets or galaxies, but alternate planes of existence altogether, it was mathematically proven only a few months ago. Each world has its own time independent from every other world. God doesn't exist because He isn't confined to the limited infinity of existence. Being outside of existence, we can't define Him existing. The paradox of the situation is that He must exist otherwise existence can't exist because there is nothing else outside of it to call non-existant. With nothing non-existant, there is nothing to define existence as existing, ergo existence can't exist without the existing Non-existance.

so confused

quote:

Originally posted by Barkwhisker:
I'm honestly surprised so many people are here are so faithful considering your on the discovery channel site. If you are on discovery.com, you have obviously viewed one or more of it's programs. Since it' all about science it is shocking that not many of you are for the whole evolution thing as apposed to god. Does that make sense?

Why wouldn't someone go for the evolution thing? You'd have to be crazy or plain ignorant. The mistake people make is trying to replace science or religion or vice versa. THe two are complements. People mistakenly use the whole six day creation scenario as science when it was written as poetry. St. Augustine, one of the greatest theologians of all time said himself that you couldn't use Genesis as a guid to science.

quote:

Originally posted by Barkwhisker:

quote:

That's only if we define it by the human definition of time, not Kairos, God's time. There are more worlds than the one we know. I don't mean different planets or galaxies, but alternate planes of existence altogether, it was mathematically proven only a few months ago. Each world has its own time independent from every other world. God doesn't exist because He isn't confined to the limited infinity of existence. Being outside of existence, we can't define Him existing. The paradox of the situation is that He must exist otherwise existence can't exist because there is nothing else outside of it to call non-existant. With nothing non-existant, there is nothing to define existence as existing, ergo existence can't exist without the existing Non-existance.

so confused

Exactly, you have to think existentially to a whole new level.

oh i think i get it! you mean like parallel worlds have different times. (a minute here = an hour in some other world) but if god always existed and each world runs on a different time... ok im getting confused again. why does time and space have to be so closely related! ...oh is that what this means? well, heres another theory (and i know somepeople wont agree to this) but in the bible it says that god created the earth and everything, but it doesnt mentions other dementions does it? what if every demention has a different god or something? and it was proven that there are parallel universes, maybe its possible to cross over to them, and maybe even two of them are mentioned in the bible. like heaven and the opposite of heaven (i never liked to even write it. and heres another thought. if there are ghosts in this world maybe that means that dememntions ARE linked and that possibly a living person could get into another world. well, i think i know what im going to study when i get older. picture it a book titled the paranormal and the parallel or something like that. one day, im going to write a book like that.

so you are saying that one of those alternate dimensions has started and ended before us and thats what his time is based on?

quote:

The paradox of the situation is that He must exist otherwise existence can't exist because there is nothing else outside of it to call non-existant. With nothing non-existant, there is nothing to define existence as existing, ergo existence can't exist without the existing Non-existance.

All righty then. This concludes our session in what the he11 did he say.

If we are going to talk about
quantum physics, I'll need a red bull for that

quote:

Originally posted by Barkwhisker:
so you are saying that one of those alternate dimensions has started and ended before us and thats what his time is based on?

My point is that we can only measure time in our world, other worlds have a time scale completley different and independent from ours. Our universe was one of a series created by the same One that we call God.

God's time is called Kairos, it is a word used multiple times in the New Testamen. We define time as a past and future with a single point of a present time. Now for an Omniprescent and Everlasting, time exist in an infinite series of non-sequential 'Nows'. God can be any where and every where in our world and every other world at any and all times.
The closest thing that it can be compared to is the last age of our world, when time itself is independent to each photon.

oh i think i get the existance part now. if god created all of existance then how could he exist? so god couldnt have created existance because he already existed. and if its impossible to immaging non existance then what exactly is existance? is that what this means?

God is omnipotent, always has been and always will be. He has no beginning or no end. He is beyond time and space and the laws of the universe, for he has created them. That is all you really need to know.

im getting confused again. i never really did understand that.

Wolf, if you really desire to get to know God, the best way to go about it is to seek Him for yourself. In fact, He wants you to!!! Just go out and get yourself a Bible (KJV) is the only one I recognize as the preserved, infalliable Word of God. Also, there are many audio and video KJV as well if you're not much for reading. I'm gonna go ahead and be bold and say that if you do, you will be pleasantly surprised, and may even wonder why you waited so long!

i already have a bible its just that im too logical about things and its hard for me to grasp things like someone existing before time and space. i always look at stuff that i know is true and based on that, decide what else is true. its like those people off of most haunted. they hear the smallest noise and decide the house or whatever is haunted. im like the opposite of that. of course ive only surely seen ghosts or spirits when i was so young that i cant even remember, and its not like anything good ever happenes to me. in fact now that i think about it, everything got worse when i started going to church and reading the bible. i was a real believer. i believed everything that had to do about the bible.

Wolf, satan and his demons want nothing more than to scare you or give you a hard time with things. Like you said, things get bad when you go to church or read the Bible. there was a poster on here a while back, powerserge I believe was his name that said when he read the Bible, he got scared. Don't let it bother you. Let it roll right off. I said before that God didn't give us the spirit of fear, and He is not the author of confusion. Those things are from satan. Anytime you feel fear, of any kind, especially during the times when you are trying to get close to God or spend time with Him, the fear is from satan. Don't back down, stand firm. And remember, we have nothing to fear, for the Lord is with us. I also said before that I do not believe in ghosts. Dead people will not come back, for any reason. The dead know nothing. Also, man is appointed once to die, then to face judgement. Demons, on the other hand, will and do come in the forms of humans. It's another form of trickery, and yet another way to instill fear. Don't let satan take away your beliefs, that means he won in what he set out to do. Who wants that?

well lately ive been thinking im a bit crazy. for one not a day goes by that i dont wish i had a more exciting life. but what i really dont understand is that sometimes in my dreams if im about to be killed, kidnapped, or tortured (ok i admit it my dreams are wierd) its like my subcontious LIKES it. and sometimes i wonder if i did have a life of adventure if i would be evil or something. actually i think once i said i would do just about anything to have a life of adventure even if it means being the villan. go ahead and say it, im crazy. but hey, this isnt my forum, so why are we stuck on this topic?