Nugget roved 4 times! Juno roved 3 times! Marico roved 5 times! It still says vwm128 roved? but 5 times and Savuka roved two times! Ill do the rest of the groups later this great news for amiras and rocketdogs bloodline!
Aztecs 17 members no pups same dominant pair. Squig was evicted and Burdock had a miscarriage. Alonzo Mourning roved once to the Baobab. 3 encounters with the Baobab.
Baobab 27 members 1 pup same dominant pair. Al Alcatraz, Mumbulu, and Jason Borne all roved once. 3 encounters with the Aztecs
Drie Doring 18 members no pup same dominant pair. Trinity was last seen Thor and Finn Macool roved twice to the Frisky. Buddah and Falco roved once to the frisky. 2 encounters with
Elveera 19 members 1 pup same dominant pair.
Frisky 16/17 members no pups same dominant pair. Bramley and spider pig roved 3 times to the Drie Doring Black Jack roved 4 times, and Phoenix roved twice. 2 encounters with the Drie Doring Quaver was absent at the end of the month.
Geckos 17/23 members no pups same dominant pair. Jemima, AnnieAnnieAnnie,were absent at the end of the month 4 unknown members were absent as well.
Hoopla unknown members everyone is last seen.
Jaxx 13 members no pups Kit Kat was predated. Rhogan Josh roved there 3 times as well as a wild male.
KungFu 19/21 members no pups same dominant pair. Kleintjie is pregneat Eliot roved 3 times. VKUM007, and Woolf roved 1 time all to the whiskers. Eliot was evicted. Eliot and Woolf were absent at the end of the month. 3 encounters with Sequoia and 4 with Whiskers.
Lazuli 22/23 members no pups same dominant pair. Calvinia and Christina both had miscarriages. Axel was absent at the end of the month.
Moomins 16/20 members no pups same dominant pair. Hemulen is pregneat. Michelangelo roved 2 times once to the Aztecs and once to the Baobab. Misable, Regopstaan, Frida, VMM058 were absent at the end of the month.
Nequoia 14/15 members 3 pups same dominant pair VNEM002 was absent at the end of the month.
Rascals 13 members Islay is the new dominant female. Blondie was last seen. Tigi Islays son roved once to the Kungfu.
Sequoia 7 members no pups same dominant pair. 3 encounters with KungFu, one with Whiskers.
Toyota 9 members same dominant pair. Superman returned to the group. One encounter with a wild group.
Vanlhelsings- 16/18 members same dominant pair. Billy had a miscarriage, Billy and Plonker were evicted. They were absent at the end of the month.
Whiskers 12/15 members no pups same dominant pair. Nugget roved 4 times once to the Lazuli, 2 times to the Kungfu, and one time to the Aztecs. Juno roved 3 times 2 times to the Kungfu, once to the Sequoia. Marico roved 5 times once to the lazuli, once to the KungFu, 2 times to the Baobab, and once to a wild group. VWM128? roved 5 times once to the lazuli, 3 times to the KungFu, one time to a wild group. Savuka roved 2 times, once to the Sequoia and once to the KungFu. Gump roved once to the KungFu. Nugget Juno and VWM128 were absent at the end of the month.
Great news about the Whiskers males. Nugget, Juno, Marico, and even the really young (who obviously followed their uncle, and older brothers) Savuka, and Gump roved to the Aztecs, Baobab, and the Kung Fu. It is the second month that we see VWM128 as roving. There is only a female with this number, Sabota. Also we see again this month Nugget, Juno, and the elusive VWM128 as "evicted". What is going on in the Whiskers?
The Hoppla members are last seen. I thought that there was TB in the group a few months ago. I guess that's what it was after all. It's the same pattern like with the Commandos.
Blondie was last seen. I hope there is no TB in the Rascals, and it's just something else.
Something strange is that no females (except Hemulen, Kleintjie, and a couple of SFs that miscarried) are pregnant.
Zettak, it's not the answer to all your questions but recently, most probably due to a lot of details having to be processed for the LH, im noticing in the friends only 'detailed' reports that many activities go on that do not seem to appear in the chart. (certain individuals could be encountered by a group but it not show in the chart) the same I think goes for certain ID codes showing in certain columns on the chart but there may be no mention of it in the detailed report!
Ive not really looked at this VWM128 (theres not often anyneed to look at the charts if you have all the info in text) but it might be a typo (?) a few reports ago we were presented with VGGF005 in the LH chart - this was a typo and funnily enough there was never a VGGF005 anyway.
My theory with the whiskers boys are well first most likely VWM028 is Marico just a typo like even though they roved at diffrent places it couldnt be sabota..because VWM028 is under roving. When ThunderCat Joined Nugget was a subadult and juno and marico were juveniles to young to be evicted. Maybe he just wants male pups he fathered in the group Notice Savuka wasnt evicted? But the three oldest sub adult males were. It is still a mystery Blondie was most likely preadated but she left a lasting legacy with her children. It really payed off for islay surving long enough for her sissters death. Its a shame about hoopla I thought with the fall of Jo Jo Hello and Grumpy AND Commandos would be the last sad parts but i guess not. On an up side the kungfu seem to be growing with another large litter they could become a serious threat to the larger groups like the lazuli and geckos even though though they dont come across eachother that often. No news on the nequoia for Ornico or Logan? And It seems the dominant male VNEM002 was absent. Where is Axel? he didnt seem to be roving in the july report.
I have thought of the KungFu was a threat to the whiskers since the march battle. Especially now since Kleintjie gave birth and is pregneat again. When I said they were a threat to the other groups I meant they had larger numbers than most of them.
The Whisker's boys seem to be roving all over the manor. But there does not appear to be anything happening back at the burrow. What are Ella and Thundercat waiting for. I really wonder how good of a relationship they have. They need pups, especially if the older males are all out roving. Ella seems to have had more pups by rovers than Thundercat.
Kung Fu is posturing to be the next super group. Kleintjie is the first DF of the really large groups to get pregnant again. The Whiskers are in trouble because they are right between Kung Fu and Lazuli. Both of those groups grew rapidly last year.
Mitch, if you look at the other groups almost no one is pregneat besides Hemulen and Kleintjie its still winter there. I dont think we need to really worry about the whiskers the reason the males are roving is because there are not any pups to be cared of. The KungFu and the Lazuli are a problem yes but only time will tell how strong the whiskers will grow this year nugget is almost 2 years old. He seems to be a capable babysitter protector of his group and now a rover to the available females. The Sequoia are a very easy target for the whiskers rovers with just a few males protecting the group the only reason I think none are pregneat Benzedrine's daughters are too young.
Ella had six pups with Thundercat in late October 2008 (two were last seen in March 2009 after an intergroup interaction with the Kung Fu), and four boys (!) in January 2009 (one was predated). There is a slight possibility that Savuka who was born in July 2008 is Thundercat's son. Thundercat roved once to the Whiskers in May 2008. Other rovers did too. This is a good number of offspring.
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this the second straight month that Axel has been missing? Man, I hope he is ok! I am glad to see all groups are thriving (Knock on wood) with the exception of Kit Kat. RIP Kit Kat! It is great to see the Whiskers growing their group, and hopefully someday they will grow to powerful strength like they were with Flower and Rocket Dog.
Axel was roving to the Elveera last month. Zaphod mentioned on the friends only report that some individuals were mentioned visiting groups that werent mentioned on the public report meaning Axel was probably one of them.
Sophie, I mean this in a nice & informative way but what I said was:
quote:
im noticing in the friends only 'detailed' reports that many activities go on that do not seem to appear in the chart. (certain individuals could be encountered by a group but it not show in the chart) the same I think goes for certain ID codes showing in certain columns on the chart but there may be no mention of it in the detailed report!
it was an example of the difference in information, an example of why we could be presented with VWM128, like we were shown VGGF005 the other month! I made no reference to a specific detail or individual or specific situation in any group - I would loose my membership so please in future, read/think a little more carefully before you misquote people - it can cause trouble.
Sophie, I hope you are right about the Whiskers. With Nugget, Juno and the other "older" males roving, the Whiskers are even lower in numbers. I know only 2 DF's are pregnant, but I remember how many pups Young had last year. And remember, the Whiskers are sandwiched between two much larger groups. If those groups continue to grow, the Whiskers will get squeezed. The Sequoia are weaker and also border them, so there is an outlet.
Zettak, I have always wondered who Savuka's father is. I believe there was a lot of roving activity around the Whiskers at the time Savuka was likely conceived. Heck, there was a lot of roving activity around the Whiskers even after Thundercat came in.
Mitch, Young and Klentjie both did have a litter of 7 which is the largest recored for a female to have. Both groups were in trouble and that boost (despite the loss of two for the lazuli pups) did bring their numbers to a healthier amount. But Ella also had large litters. Just the Whiskers were lower at the time when they got a non natel dominant male and had the boosts. As soon as Ningaloo became dominant male klentjie started haveing large litters. When Wollow joined Young started haveing large litters. When Thundercat Joined Ella started haveing large litters just later on than the others and again they were lower on numbers. My guess is they will increason by atleast 10-11 members this year like last year. To have 10 pups in 2 litters wasnt very common untill recently Im sure Thundercat will eventually allow the boys to return especially becuase Nugget and Juno especially are large adults and experienced. But this was also a good thing for nugget he finally started to rove which as i mentioned earlier is good news for rocketdogs bloodline. Just give the whiskers time they did recover from a low in numbers and experience which alot of groups cant ex zappa( they still might be alive but mayeb not).
Savuka's father could be Bruce, or Ash Elveera who continued visiting the Whiskers the next few months after May 2008. A dominant male like Thundercat can be in shaky ground in the beginning of his tenure. The DF can mate with other rovers, but not necessarily.
Last June, July, and August almost every DF, and a lot of SFs were pregnant, or gave birth.
Sophie, I hope you are right. I think the Whiskers need all the muscles and helpers they can get. I hope Nugget fathers some pups to keep RD's bloodline alive. It would be even better if we knew that the pups were his (ie he was observed mating with the mother).
RE the Lazuli and Kung Fu, you are totally correct that they increased in numbers rapidly once a non natal DM came in. I dont have the numbers in front of me, but I thought they each of those groups added more members last year than the Whiskers did. Because the Whiskers were so low, they need to add members much faster.
Zettak, I thought Bruce and Ash were hanging around about that time last year. Both of those guys were some of my favorites. I remember last year when rumours of a new Whiskers DM came out, I was rooting for Ash.
Also Zettak, you are the king of numbers and facts. I thought there were more pregnancies this time last year but I couldnt remember. Was this past winter more severe than last?
I will admit that there is something about Thundercat that just doesnt seem right to me. I dont know if it is because he is a Lazuli, he beat out Ash or what. You have to admit, it doesnt make a lot of sense for him to keep out the big subordinate males out of his group. It seems that encounters between the Whiskers and Kung Fu are occurring more frequently. You would think he could see that his group is at a significant size disadvantage and needs all the muscle it can get. Maybe it is less of a concern now that the rains are coming and foraging is better.
i haven't been able to post for a time because i was moving. Right now I am having trouble typing on a new keyboard with a sticky shift key; please forgive all the non-capitalizations.
This was a very eventful month, again. J. Alfred Prufrock and Blondie were two of my favorite dominants. The kalahari had thrown everything it had at them, and they seemed to be overcoming it all until this. I was really hoping the Hoppla could make it. Poor Trinity and Kit Kat. at least some females are still pregnant. Hemulen's coming pups are a good sign for Moomins. I'm still holding my breath for them.
Mitch68, there were more early pregnancies last year (ella even gave birth in July) but that was because last year was mild and there was a lot of food around. This winter was more normal, although there was some unseasonable rain in June.
Thundercat's behavior mystifies me. I have never heard of a dm evicting natal subordinate males. They are no real threat to his status; even if one challenged him he is the only one who could mate with Ella. I don't think any have tried to challenge him. I have wondered if he is confused because all the kats he has attacked so far were there when he joined. Maybe he's not sur ethey're natal? We her a lot about how big Nugget and Juno are, maybe they are larger than Thundercat and he feels threatened by them? Most of what I have heard from visitors says that he is a vigilant sentry and a good helper, generally a good DM. But he also seems to be rather nervous... paranoid and given to male evictions... tends toward strange behavior... are we sure he is Basil's son, and not the offspring of a rover Yossarian? I don't really think so, but he sure seems to take after him.
i hope ash and the other ex-elveeras are out there somewhere, having pups. from what Evi said last month the group seems to be destined for extinction.
Aztecs..."same dominant pair..." Music to my ears...
Grumpy's 6 pups still alive....Sigh...may they thrive...
Axel roving to Elveera has me holding my breath...disease has taken the family.
Just a note I understand new kats are working on the LH reports....maybe more inconsistencies then in months past??? Hopefully will smooth out over time.
When Thundercat joined whiskers they were very small.. I wonder if Thundercat realises that Nugget and Juno are natal males? afterall, neither are Ella's offspring.. Nugget has been quoted as a large male (and is looking at pictures) and Juno was almost the same size as Thundercat at about 6 months! maybe he thinks they are unrelated males? Rovers of different origins can help form groups with just a handfull of females (like Gattaca - whiskers/vivian/youngones) or KungFU (whiskers/commandoes/gattaca/wild/frisky) perhaps, given the size of the group, Thundercat thought it was newly formed and the other large males could be unrelated and threaten his Dominance..?
Unrelated males can be tolerated by the unrelated DM - if they know their place.. othertimes, a male establishes Dominance and then systematically kicks out the competition, weve seen this behaviour with Wollow at Lazuli.
Zaphod, The thing is that if Thundercat did think they were a threat why wait untill now to evict them? I would think in the early months if he really thought they were a threat he would of kicked them out. That wouldnt explain Marico though... He is most likely VWM128. Maybe Thundercat just wants pups he fathered? VWF053, yousarriaon didnt rove to the Lazuli when Cazzana became pregneat. She most likely pregneat in the middle of july? because thundercat was born at the end of September. Some Males do rove during the Winter but usually arent successful take the Kung Fu, the Baobab, The Aztecs? While yes most of the rovers were young I would expect atleast more than 6 females were pregneat. The reason so much roving is hapening this winter is because the rains are still there just not as much. Causing more food and more hormones around the kalahari. If Nugget and Juno are never accepted back its a shame but its not like they stand no chance to join another group. Like I mentioned earlier The sequoia are a very easy target protected by just one adult male bruce. If Nugget, Juno, Marico, maybe even Savuka rove together I think they could easily kick Bruce out. The Whiskers boys did seem to be interested with the Sequoia in july.
Nugget, Juno, and Marico were some months old when Thundercat joined the Whiskers. Even if he thought that the males were not natal they were probably too young for him to feel threatened. Now they are older, and large. I believe that Marico is large as well judging from photos. They are in mating age. Even if Thundercat roved to the Whiskers before he joined, they were a large group, and then suddenly he encounters them again, and they are tiny. They looked totally different, like a new group. This could be an explanation. What about their scent though? It would be the same. Is it possible that the three males showed insubordination? Suddenly? We thought that it was strange Nugget was not roving although he was old enough. I guess Thundercat is forcing them to rove like this. It's a difficult situation for the Whiskers males, that's why they rove to so many groups. They try to join one. But most of these groups are large, so it will be impossible. It must be a small group, or they can join evicted females, and create a new group.
Poor Hoppla, and Elveera (they are still large, but I guess the members are sick, and they can disappear fast, like the Commandos). I liked JAP, and I was happy when he created a new group.
All the Whiskers males tried to rejoin the group several times. I wonder why they couldn't since they are large, and the other males, except Tundercat are young. Savuka, the oldest is one year old, and he was roving with them. Is the typo WVM028 really WVM029 which is Savuka, so he is evicted as well? I wonder if Ella can play a role in this.
I think this explanation is viable. Another thing is Thundercat probably joined what he thought might be a 'cohesive' group. Again, KungFu had males of different origins for sometime with no direct challenge to Clinton Baptise (the former doiminant) he just seemed to quit. Now Whiskers are a little larger, Thundercat is probably throwing his weight around a bit and feels there are enough in the group to take care of each other without needing the older perhaps unrelated males.
Yossarian roved almost exclusivley to Lazuli! Over 3/4 of his roving career was spent with Lazuli. I really do believe that Basil is Thundercats father though. He was Yossarians brother though so Thundercat can still have a resembelence in personality (like Wollow) Basil was an excellent DM by all accounts, I think he lacks credit alot because of his situation with Izit. In reality though Izit was just an incredibly tough meerkat and was very hard on his brothers, he even had his father as subordinate and Stinker was another huge kat. Basil was still pretty high up in the ranks over his other brothers though id imagine.
It will be interested to see where the Whiskers roving coalation ends up! Drie, although far would be ideal having no unrelated DM although I think Frisky will sort that out in time. Jaxx is another good option, just Juvie males there, easily intimidated by Nuggets coalation. Im holding out for RJ to join Jaxx though along with 'unk' ;-)
So if it's Savuka (WVM029 instead of WV028) then Thundercat evicted all males that they are not his offspring. But these males are large. They could overthrow Thundercat. Unless Ella doesn't allow it. It's a sad, sad situation for the Whiskers boys.
The Whiskers would be small without the older males. They are among large groups. If Thundercat thinks that the Whiskers can do well without the males, good luck.
What Thundercat is doing is putting his dominance status at risk... With just young males he wont stand much of a chance. To be honest I think right now if anything Thundercat needs the large Whiskers males more than ever atleast untill his children are old enough.
Thundercat could be vunerable without the older males, groups with young and inexperienced males can be plagued by roving males. Perhaps if Thundercat really has evicted the males he got a bit carried away. Last time the whiskers were small, it was mentioned on this board (public info) that a group of wild males where hanging around the Whiskers burrow. Thundercat should be carefull.
I guess (and ive mentioned before) even though an individual is large, like juno for example, they may not know what they are capable of.. they may not have challenged Thundercat because they were young when he joined, some may even see him as the closest to a father figure theyve had - they may not think they could challenge him.. he obviously hasnt had any retaliation from them.
Another factor is some males may have been thrown out and others have simply followed them on what seems to be a big adventure for them.
It's possible that the males never challenged Thundercat, and they were too young to know how. He evicted them easily. They probably never expected it. Poor things, they are in shock, I bet. Gump for sure followed his older brothers, cousin, and uncle.
Gump was 9 months old. He most likely just followed one of his cousin Nugget I guess if you leave with a rover that counts as roving Nugget and Juno left with the Whiskers coalition last year but returned before they got to the lazuli. They were marked as roving.
Errrr speaking of typos, Savuka couldn't be VWM028 or VWM029. Flower was VWF026! Savuka is either VWM128 or VWM129. I believe the Whiskers code numbers are up to 140. Speaking of Whiskers, they are down to 12 members. They need to get bigger. Ella and Thundercat need to get busy as soon as the winter is over. Speaking of potential supergroups, don't forget the Baobab family. Especially if DF Hawkeye continues to allow SF Cruise to breed. Quite frankly I'm surprised Cruise is still with the Baobab. She's the same age as Hawkeye. She's challenged Hawkeye in the past (and won). Cruise has had multiple litters. Normally this is just the kind of meerkat a DF would evict. And yet Hawkeye has tolerated Cruise and her children.
I hope that Axel was one of the nonmentioned named Whiskers that has been roving. Him being adopted by the Whiskers by Rocket Dog was one of the greatest acts a Meerkat could ever fulfill.
I think fate might finally be changing for the better for the toyota. Now with 6 adults their pups stand a much greater chance of survival. I think they lost so many pups because of the lack of adults untill now. Only fate will decide though.
Ive often thought of Baobab having a permanent group split! If they continue to grow as they have been, a split is a viable option.. Cruise has DF potential and Baobab still contains a choice of two unrelated males to breed with, Al Pachino - former and experienced dominant male and his (probably) son Al Catraz.
Mitch depends on which Mitch you mean. For the first season Mitch was all Mitch, but as time went by they substituted in film of other heroic young males and called them Mitch. Zarathustra/Zorro was a frequent stand-in. The real Mitch roved away in late 2007, after leaving Zaphod's coalition to go out on his own. Mitch in Season 4 (after he roved away) was mainly played by Machu Picchu, who was called Dudley as a pup in S1. He was bitten in the head by a snake shortly after RD died, and though he survived he lost his dominance and was evicted by the new DM Wollow (mozart's son). Not long after he recovered a little and returned to the group all the adult Whisker males left roving and joined Lazuli. Wollow maintained his dominance despite being younger and smaller, and began evicting Machu again. Machu found resite by roving, and eventually joined a new group, as a DM again, in the company of his nephew Rhogan Josh. But their was a group split not long after the new group formed, and Machu disappeared along with several young members, possibly including a female almost old enough to breed. His fate is unknown, altohugh the fact that Rhogan Josh continues to rove, but without Machu, suggests that he may be dead. It is a very sad end for a great meerkat who survived so much, and we are all hoping he somehow survived and will be seen again someday.
Axel is currently living as a subordinate in Lazuli. He roves a lot, and is trying very hard to join a group. He was missing at the end of last month, so let's all hope he is just visiting unhabituated groups and is ok. That happens a lot with older roving males, they can vanish for weeks to months and turn up fine.
Seacrest was a compilation character played by Tosca's two sons Flava Flav and Jogu. Both have long since roved away, in a coalition together. One of them probably fathered zorilla/Nikita's November 2007 litter, but sadly none of these pups survive. Several disappeared while very young (they were probably killed by predators)and the last, Cody was one of the early TB deaths in the group.
Seacrest is Jogu?And Aww!!!!Seacrest is my fav. meerkat from MM season 4!!!!And They lied about Mitch,no suprize.And Axel was a Whisker,he jioned before Flower died.I was wondering were they were last seen,or dead.
I assume that the researchers still don't know who is in Nequoia, since nothing is being said about it. The report states that they still have the same dominants, so they must be getting close enough to be able to identify some of the members at least. Has anyone heard any news about this?
Seacrest was a very interesting and likeable character; so were the kats that played him. I think he was meant to represent all the Whiskers males who roved away around that time; several coalitions left the group forever, to look for adventure and unrelated females during the timeframe of season 4.
Seacrest was the first male to be atacked by a DF and latter on mated whith her.And Simon,Never even born!!!!And I fell for the Willson one and now Simon!!!Man,were do you get this info. at?
The friends of the kalahari meerkats site is the source of most of my information, as well as the book. More about who was who on the show can be found on the spoiler board in various places; experts in dye marks and members of the FKMP team sometimes post here. Pronker and Makonkie are both FKMP people; what they say is true. Others on the board are frequent posters and know a great deal about the meerkats.
There is also an accurate meerkat database, the link is posted under the "making sense of it all" thread on this board. Carlos_VLM073 was kind enough to make it. Most of us I think have massive lists and notes.
