Thanks Youssarianfan, Crittkat, and Mid_SA, it really helps to know that the episode was respectful and that Flower died so bravely in defense of what was most important to her...her pups and family.

My thoughts exactly "helperkat". See died doing what she had to do and I'm sure she'd do it all over again to protect her family and pups. She truly is the "Queen of the Kalahari". She was fearless and free and lived by the ways of the desert. My heart is breaking and my eyes have tears, but I'm so glad we all got to know this wonderful Meerkat. God Speed brave Flower!

yes, thanks everyone for the answers. and now i must pester with another question (sorry)

do we know if the snake was injured, or died? or did it get away unscathed?

Yo Zero

Good question. Why not add it to the Questions we want answered thread.

I bet neither one won.

Pronker

Does anyone know how many pups were in this litter and did they all make it?

Thank you very much, Yousarrianfan, Crittkat, and Mid_SA. Your posts have made me feel better about watching this episode.
It is good to know Flower's passing is handled with respect. It's so hard to get my head around the fact that she's really gone.

I'd like to be added to the group in thanking CrittKat, Yousarrianfan, Mid-SA. As everyone have already said it really does help us be prepared for that fateful show. I gratefully appreciate it .Wow, what a hero!. I'm going to miss her very much.

Crittkat, I think you're a kindred spirit, I'm sure I'm going to be thinking the same thing as you while watching it.All I can say is the producers filming would be very glad I'm not a volunteer over there. As a nurse I'd be handing antibiotics to them right and left. Of course I'm sure I wouldn't last long over there. They'd be sending me home in no time, I have no problem interfering with mother nature and would do everything in my power to save them.

Does the show say what happened to the babysitter as well?

Thanks again and we're all looking forward to hearing what you have to say tomorrow.

Poor Flower, we'll miss you! RIP

Forever the family's protector, godspeed Flower!

Hello! I was just able to come on the board now for the day and saw the information. Thanks so much CrittKat, Yousarrianfan, Mid-SA. I, too am incredably angry knowing that they could help Flower but did nothing!!!!!!!! I have to try to not get too excited here, but I can't help the sense of outrage...

As Wolfee is saying, Crittkat, you are indeed my own kindred spirit, as are you, Wolfee

God bless Flower. I will go write a poem for her

One more thought I forgot to say about Flower. Reading all this information about journey's end and Flower's heroism to save her pups and her family, it's very very difficult to believe that she could ever abondon Len and Squiggy. Something is not right in the storytelling there

A cape combra went into the burrow wanting to get the pups.
Flower went in hoping to get the snake out.
The pups survived and flower was bitten but it does not show that bit but still its relly sad to watch.
I do not know if the snake survived.

yousarrianfan -
thanks again for all the info. It is nice to know that Flower was a mother and leader and hero until the end.
Looking for your updates tomorrow.

In response to the calls for the research /TV film intervening with flower i think is unfair we dont have the facts or the knowledge of the situation how long was she underground allowing the venom to work ? Anti venom must be given shortly after the bite. The way her head was swollen i dont think anything could have been done, the people who have interacted and lived alongside her for all these years built up the trust to enable them to interact and follow her around must be suffering far more than us arm chair viewers.
In the commentary The commentator clearly stated it was a fatal bite I haven't heard that before when a MeerKat was bitten maybe its hind sight editing maybe its a statement nothing could be done.
As for flower abandoning her pups she split the group to improve chances of survival as the resources of the territory couldn't support a group of that size. Its a tough world out there stumpy was never going to survive opps re read the post i might be going off on the wrong track

She adopted Axle the abandoned pup of the Zappa which was unusual ussually rival pups would be killed
Life can be cruel and at time harsh decisions must be made all in all her decisions made the Whiskers the most successful group in the Area and that is the goal of a leader how can we judge individual acts when the full story shows she was a great leader and provided whiskers a wonderful legacy for the future

BTW we only saw one pup come to the surface at the end, i think to show that her actions were not wasted how many she had initially was not clear and if others survived, or what happened to the baby sitters will become clear next episode.

I don't think its fair being judgmental on what if's on the researchers actions, lets face it the researchers and TV crew have done the meerkat world a great service in highlighting the lives of these amazing creatures and in providing the means to create safe haven in the form of protected areas to provide greater chance of ensuring the long term future of these animals.

Also without it we wouldn't be having these discussions and being addicted daily / weekly to the lives of these wonderful creature I for one would just thank them and not criticize them.

I sympathize with all of you for the heartwrenching tragedies that the Manor has endured. I know that Mother Nature can sometimes be cruel but we must be steadfast loyal keepers of these little creatures. In our hearts their memories will live.

I must thank the researchers for their dedication. Without them we would never have known how wonderful they are. I can only imagine their frustration not being able to help. I will never make a good researcher because I would be interfering with every sick or injured animal I come across. The reality is that this is nature, in its rawest form. It may not be pretty but it is very interesting and mesmerizing. It makes me sad and I too cry, but I still look forward for another episode. Their feisty desire to survive gives me courage to know that the Manor will struggle but will survive.

It is so very sad that Flower was bit by the snake. Being in the burrow complicated things and I truly doubt that anyone could have saved her. It is unfortunate for us who have become emotinally connected to them. I cry each time I think about her, ever since it was announced of her passing. I still cry over my dog over 18 months ago. Seems like yesterday.

Be kind to those that need a little extra TLC. Keep your heads up. Our loved ones who have gone, would want us to remember them with love and dignity.

I pray that the Kalahari is kinder this summer. Last year's drought took a toll on the Manor as well us viewers.

Love from Hawaii.

I just Googled "cape cobra" and from reading about how quickly it can affect a man, even if the researchers were standing around with the antivenom, it probably wouldn't have done any good. The meerkats are so small, it probably only took about a minute for it to be too late. So, for all of you wanting to be upset that they didn't do anything to help Flower - I think you are being grossly unfair.

Besides, she was the star of the show. Why in the world would AP intentionally ignore something happening to her if they felt they could prevent it???

I know that we shouldn't expect much from the Starsky gang until "three-degrees of separation" airs. However I would like to know what happens to Mozart.
The next few episodes will be incredibly hard with the death of our beloved Flower. It would be nice to hear that another of our favourite meerkat ladies is doing well, for a change.

I agree about the cape cobra bite, there was most likely nothing they could do.

Sunshine: I agree with you. The theory that Len and Squigg were not Flower's pups makes sense and would explain why she left them behind (werent they only a month old and still nursing?) and why they stopped caring for them.

[quote]"cape cobra" and from reading about how quickly it can affect a man, even if the researchers were standing around with the antivenom, it probably wouldn't have done any good[/quote]

Moonpie- I think everyone has to remember meerkat and mongooses have an amazing tolerance to venom. Mongooses can even eat the heads of snakes! What could kill you or me without anti-venom, they can survive. Like Shakes and Lola. But a cobra bite near the head or heart- no
If Flower had been bite elsewhere like her leg, it might have had a different ending The question for me isn't whether I would have gone into my backback for anti-venom, its whether I would have killed the snake as it was slithering into the burrow.

well, now that i have almost stopped crying can someone tell how i can be so heartbroken over an animal half way around the world that i've never even seen. I don't know how all of you have dealt with knowing about Flower's death since February. I have only know a week and have been a basket case. The only thing that helps is what people told me when my dogs died-this was Flower's destiny. It was meant to happen this way and nothing anyone could have done would have made any difference. I will miss her tremendously. One day we will all meet again. As the title says Goodbye my Lovely.

Poor Flower! I hope she didn't suffer too long. It sounds as if the narrator doesn't really give us a sense of the amount of time that elapsed between the bite and her death?

Clutton-Brock's book is scheduled for UK release on October 4. I wonder if he goes into more detail of her death. Or maybe the book went to press before she died.

UK fans, you'll have access to the book before those of us in the USA. If Clutton-Brock offers any revelations, please post them on the Spoiler. Thanks.

Im getting that book in october as my birthday is close by.
I will keep you updated on the book as well as the show.

Thanks, crittkat & mid_sa for hearing my begging calls. I felt like a pup begging for food. I know I was one of the 1st posters prodding the answers from you way back on page one of this post. But I have been so distraught and my heart so heavy awaiting this doomful episode. It helps me prepare better for when I watch it. Next season, I don't think I'll forage ahead or even read the episode guide because for me, it revealed too much info. Last year I didn't snoop ahead & just watched MM as it unfolded. I kind of liked it better that way. It's like reading the last page of a novel before you start it (which I used to do as a teenager). I learned the hard way, to just start from the beginning & let it unfold. I remember getting to the last few pages & then saying, darn, wish I hadn't done that.

Im with you on the season pinkbuni. Im not going to get any information unless its from series 4 on the tv.
But knowing what happened this series was better as it helped me. I hope the next series is much more smooth.

yousarrianfan, pinkbuni -

For me, once on the spoiler board, I don't know if I can go back. As soon as KMP updates their reports, I know I will be downloading them and looking for all the connections.
Someone, I don't know if it is this thread, made a suggestions that Len and Squiggy were either not her pups or something. From reading the name pages, in which they are not listed, it seems that they were both born and died before January 31st, thus they were not there.

Last year, I stayed away form the spoiler board & episode guide. Season's 1 & 2 were so much lighter & happier. I guess because of the drought this year, we have all been slapped with the cold harsh visual reality of life in the Kalahari. So much more struggling just to scrape up a meal for every animal in the Kalahari. The news of Flower came during down time between season's. I am glad I found out before & have had all this time to prepare. I eases the pain ever so slightly... *sigh*

For me, knowing how it happened has helped put the tragedy into perspective. It still hurts and it still makes me cry to even think about it. A Mom defending her pups from a hungry predator, was a deliberate decision, made by Flower. I am just amazed at the intelligence and reasoning abilities she possessed. To know how and when, to divide the group, to save the rations around the baby-sitting borrow. To know where the best foraging areas are, to lead her mob to them, then knowing when it was time to move on. How much was learned, from the short time she spent with her Mother, and what part did instinct play once she was out on her own. And how much more she needed to teach Rocket Dog!

As excited and happy as I am about my trip, to KMP next spring, there will definitely be a tear ((or a hundred)) shed when I meet the Whiskers for the first time. Gulp . . . sigh . . . . thump! (Head hitting desk.)

I live in the US, so I have not seen the "Journey's End" yet. I am just going by what I have read here.

One thing that crosses my mind every time something bad happens to one of our beloved Meerkats. You never see a human around them, only when they are weighing them, so it is possible that the people that are filming this did not know what happened until it was to late to save them, even if they could. I am sure that someone does not watch the monitors 24/7, expecially with the burrow cameras, so even if they would want to help them, maybe there just was no time to do so.

Just my thoughts.