OK, I want to do some old fashion conjecture based on stuff I am reading. It starts bad, but I think is ultimately good. Bear with me.

On another site, I read the Whiskers were down to 7 members early in July 2008. Although that is scary, it makes sense. I know the last "full" public FKMP LH said the Whiskers were at 15 after RD's death. On this board, we have heard about the deaths(TB?)/disappearence of some adult Whisker females. Also, we know from the FKMP public site that 5 Whiskers males took over the Lazuli in July 2008. We have heard rumors that a group of Lazuli or possibly Elveera males joined the Whiskers in July 2008. Assume there were 5 incoming males, that puts the Whiskers back at 12.

But take a look at the dynamic of the group. We have a strong leader (Ella/Sophie). She seems to be able to have litters (unlike RD) and now has a non-natal DM. So she doesnt have to seek out a rover to mate. She should be able to have litters more frequently. The group is mostly males. This means a strong defense against rovers and other groups. The females in the group are very young. Therefore, we shouldnt see challenges for dominance or subordinate pregnancies. I would even think that the new males to the group would not mate with the underaged females (kind of like Axel when he joined the Whiskers). Since the males are generally young, they shouldnt be running off and roving.

Obviously, TB is the wild card in all of this (which makes me hope Elveera males joined), but the makeup of the Whiskers makes them poised to grow and be very strong. It would only take a couple of litters to get back to 20 members. I wonder if Ella/Sophie is currently pregnant considering the timeframe of the new males coming in. With them being so young, I think they will stick together for some time. They could quickly gain a dominant position again.

So am I just too optimistic?

They are no adult females in the Whiskers, but Ella now. There is obviously no competition. The Lazuli males that joined would have to rove (I noticed that some had encounters with the Elveera in July, except for J. Alfred Prufrock which is an indication that he was the DM in July) since they are no other females (but female pups) in the group. They could mate with Whiskers females, since they would be unrelated. I hope they all remain in the group, but there might be fights for dominance. Ella gave birth recently. I'm not very optimistic, because TB is an important factor.

The Elveera have the same (more, or less) number of members for months, with only the addition of pups. They are no emigrations of males. Roving, and encounters are not emigrations, or immigrations.

Hey mitch68,

I am courious as to what site you read about the Whiskers on?

eruth

I made a mistake. J. Alfred Prufrock appeared at the Elveera in July (I'm guessing as a rover). He was bitten by a snake as well (they were a few photos of him by webdeb that visited the KMP recently), and I assume that was the reason he lost dominance to Thundercat when still in the Lazuli. J. is the oldest Lazuli, then Thundercat (who was roving with some of the Lazuli, but didn't appear to emigrate in the July report with them), and then Bernard.

eruth66

In the official MM UK website forum, in "The New Leader" thread, a poster (Michelle63126) that went to the KMP as an Earthwatcher in July said that the Whiskers had 7 members.

It seems that webdeb went to the KMP in the beginning of June, when the Whiskers males were still with the Whiskers, although some members had already died/disappeared. They are photos of all the kats (back then), and a spreadsheet with the names of the members of the group in one of the photos. In the Lazuli, J. Alfred Prufrock has scars from a snake bite, and we are told that he lost his dominance. They are not too many kats present, because the males are probably roving.
Michelle went to the KMP later (she returned in the middle of July), when the five Whiskers males had just left, and the group had seven members. No roving coalition had joined yet. Ella was the only adult; the rest were young members.

Eurth, Zettak gave the correct citation. Check meerkatmanor.co.uk.

Zettak, you make the glass sound half empty. Just kidding. I know with such a young group, and the threat of TB, it will be an uphill battle for the Whiskers. But if they can hold together for just a few months, and Ella/Sophie has a couple more litters, they should be pretty strong. Any idea how many Lazuli males joined up?

I'm relatively optimistic. I have to be. I love the Whiskers.

The Lazuli males Bernard, Shaka Zulu, Lutzputz are roving as Lazuli rovers in the July LH report, and they are absent (naturally) from their group. The first two made three appearances each in the Lazuli in June (the Whiskers males took over the group). The Lazuli males J. Alfred Prufrock, Bish, Bosh, VLM140 (?) are absent from their group at the end of two consecutive months, and the first three roved once in the Elveera in July. Thundercat Lazuli, who appeared to be roving as a Lazuli in May, and June, but not in July, is unaccounted for. Any of those, and Thundercat could be in the Whiskers.

Zettak, as always, thanks for the info. How does KMP classify rovers? For example, a Lazuli male is part of a roving coalition that takes over the Whiskers. The next month, that male does some roving during the month, but ultimately returns to the Whiskers. Is it listed as a rover? How long does the male have to be out of the group to be considered a rover?

I am hoping the Whiskers got at least 3 males joined up. Actually, I am hoping more that the males that joined are healthy and not carrying around TB.

I don't think they are ever considered to be strictly rovers. I believe they would always be listed with the last group they were known to be a part of. The only times I can think of this not being the case would be if they have never been known to be part of a studied group, in which case they wouldn't even have an ID, i.e. the infamous V??M???

The Whiskers males that took over the Lazuli are roving as Lazuli rovers in the July report. We cannot see the Whiskers report though. We can still see they were Whiskers originally (by their ID initials, and numbers). In the name list meerkats are listed under their original group, but there is info about any other group that they belonged to (if they did), with the current listed last.

Ah, the notorious V??M?? that roved in the Elveera (where Whiskers, and Lazuli roved, as well), and the Toyota (at least, it might be more groups, this is info from the edited public report)

If there is one adult female (eg. in the Whiskers), and several unrelated males, after the males probably fight for dominance, one, the "winner" would become her mate (unless she is Zorilla. I'm kidding, I love Zorilla. She is a great role model), and the rest would have to rove. If the Whiskers report were not "classified", we would see the roving activity. We see some anyway, from the reports of other groups. According to this, Thundercat (unless he suddenly disappeared from the face of the earth) is probably the DM, since he didn't rove in July, but all the other Lazuli males did (regardless to which group they belong). Wollow, who is the DM in the Lazuli didn't either, for example. DMs have to guard their own ladies (and mate with them too).

I think that any male that "travels", and visits other groups in pursuit of females during mating season can be classified as a rover. If a male tries to join a group, doesn't succeed (or changes his mind), and then returns to his original group, he is just a typical male (this is a joke).

All this info is from the July report, and it is September already. The situation can be slightly different.

DMs can cheat (and rove), but it is not common behavior. It's not self-serving, because it can result in loss of dominance, and all the benefits that derive from it.

Thanks, Zettak. So we could have the new Whiskers males roving for part of the month, but back in the group for the other part. I noticed the former Whiskers males were roving. Hopefully, Thundercat can provide some stability and a role model for the young Whiskers.

All of the Whiskers males in the Lazuli were roving in July (Axel, Machu Pichu, Rhogan Josh, and Rufus) except for Wollow that is the DM.

my moneys on thundercat. wollow has more siblings with him in lazuli than thundercat will, including the older uncle machu. I wonder if he will be challenged at any point? we could have a repeat of the vivian males (zaphod etc) who immigrated into whiskers in 2001: lots of intergroup fighting and different dms etc.

I suspect that Wollow could be challenged by Machu, since Machu lost his dominance in the Whiskers to Wollow (that was the second oldest male in the Whiskers) after his snake bite (he became temporarily blind as well according to webdeb). The other males are a lot younger.
They were fights for dominance in the Commandos recently too.

I am betting that there will be some challenges to Wollow. No offense to him, it just seems like there are a lot of other older kats in that group.

Speaking of all of the roving, I think the Whiskers are not as weak as we think. The LH reports list rovers as still part of the group. But if you have a group of 15, but 6 are roving, then really, there are only 9 in the group on a day to day basis. When the Whiskers were down at 7, the roving males were gone and joined the Lazuli. The 16 listed in the Lazuli include 6 new males, but 5 are roving again (assuming the DM stays put). I guess I am trying to say that in relative strength to the neighboring groups, the Whiskers arent too bad off.

Wonder how the Aztecs and Commandos are doing?

I meant the Whiskers males in the Lazuli are younger than Wollow, except for Machu. Some Lazuli males (if any are still with their group) are older than Wollow.

When males rove, and they are absent, their groups became a lot weaker.

An Earthwatch volunteer said that Maybelline was observed mating with a rover in June, so she could be pregnant. Zaphod is doing fine.

It was supposed to be "become", instead of "became".

Where is Philippe Young Ones/Chuckle Brothers?
We were told he was roving with another male since his brother died, and that he was fine until relatively recently. I didn't see him roving in May, June, or July, at least in the edited report. The last time was to the Elveera in April. He used to be a favorite rover of the Aztecs, and Whiskers girls.

mitch68,
i was wondering the same about aztecs.. if the whiskers males and zaphod keep heading off rovers (which is great news for zaphod) then no non-natal males will be able to immigrate, (this wasnt a problem for lazuli for the last few years until recently etc) but i wondered, what if the whisker males go roving as a coalation again? would zaphod be left on his own as dm or would he leave as well? either way, when males are off roving the group is weak.. does zaphod still rove? as for commandoes, zettak mentioned recent challenges for dominance there.. i wonder when we will be allowed to see what is going on because those lh reports have been censored for 12 months now

Zaphod roved very little even months ago. Roving is a dangerous sport.

Miles became the DM of the Commandos in April, after Baker who was euthanized because he had TB, and Zarathustra who was predated in February. The LH reports were edited in early to mid June. Webdeb that returned from the KMP in June said that Zorilla, and Miles were still the dominant pair. I like Miles. I'm sure Zorilla likes him too, if I judge from her behavior.

I think Miles will be quite the leader. You know, he never got the press of Zara or Mitch, but I think everyone will be surprised on how strong he is. I just hope he didnt catch TB from his battle with Baker and all that blood spilling.

I think if I could see what was happening with the Commandos, I may like them a lot better with Miles as DM. Oh well. Wait until Season 5.