My dog just bit me!!!!!(this is what happend) he was eating his beef ribs at the same time as normal. i was watering plants with the hose. and sence we are still working on the food agression a always go over when he is about half done eating and pet him and praise him if he does not growl. well, i did the same today, and this time he atacked me! he was snarling and growling, so i tried to take away the foopd to hand feed him the rest(thats what i normaly did when he growled) and he bit me!!!!!! it didnt break the skin but it left a big black and blue marks of teeth on my hand and is swelling up. i held him back by his collar and tried to get the food once more to not let him win because then it would only be rewording the behavior, but he threw himself at the food and my hand. if he had beel on the leash i would have corrected him, but he was tied on the dog run and it is atached to his harness so i cant correct him with that and plus you cant realy bet a good grip on the dog run line. i know it was bad for me to walk away because that let him win, but i couldnt controle him at that point and i had to put ice on my hand.


what should i do!!!!!!!!

Did he show food aggression before you began feeding him raw? Has his weight changed at all?

No, I'm not blaming his aggression on the raw food. However I am wondering if some of this might have to do with the fact that it takes him longer to eat the raw food and he doesn't have the full feeling when he's done. I'm also wondering if he's getting all the proper nutrients he needs with the raw feedings.

At the risk of opening a hornets nest of controversy; I suggest you put him back on a good well balanced kibble for awhile and see what happens.

There is no feeding plan that is perfect for all dogs!

he did show a LITTLE bit off food agression with kibble and raw. but it was never like this. he would mabey give you the "look" and get all stiff, mabey i little grumbley growl, but he would NEVER! bite. i dont think he would ever do it to hurt me, i think he is just doing what instics tell him.

i am going to hand feed him with a leash and "gentle leader"(head halter) on.

i think the problem may be that he only eats once a day.mabey he is just redaly hungrey when i feed him he just dont want to give it up. i dont have the time in the morning to feed him a full raw meal. he gets a little egg or yogert but thats it.i get out of school this thrusday coming up so i think i will start spliting his meals into 2 so i can feed him in the morning and in the evning,still hand feeding.
what do you think of that, you think it may help?

I agree with Applesmomm on this one. Try putting him back one his original balanced kibble diet for a while to observe his behavior.

This behavior needs to be stopped now before it gets worse. He could seriously injure somebody, especially small children that don't know better than to mess with eating dogs.

My suggestion is that you get a professional trainer. If he bit you that hard once, he could very well do it again and cause you serious injury

i cant switch him. my "mom" doesnt like the idea of raw feeding and if she see's me switch back to kibble for even 1 feeding she will go nuts"i told you it was a discusting horrible idea in the first place! i cant imagin how that poor dog feels eating 'raw meat'!" thats what she said when i started.

she said, either i fix it, or the dog goes and aint coming back. she never wanted the dog to begin with.

he did it again when i went to go clean up his lft over bones. i went to pick it up when he was sniffing it and he growled and mouthed me. but this time i had him in the leash, and i corrected him and made him "sit" and "wait" while i picked it up and then, "click and treat".

ouch! i am going to be feeling those bruises tomarrow!!!!!

Can you give us insight into what his diet is right now? It could be that he's not getting enough to eat, though I doubt that if he's not lost weight, or maybe his diet isn't "balanced" enough.

I use that term lightly since the idea of a raw diet is balance over time, not complete "balance" in every meal that the kibble companies project as being so essential.

If it's not for these reasons, I think it's likely that he's just realized that this food is much better so he's more protective of it. The substance of the food has changed - it's not just a bowk of pelleted food any more. It's something that's stimulating to eat and, for many dogs, more appealing.

I reccommend calling a professional trainer, too, if you're having difficulties getting this under wraps.

what do you mean shae_? his diet, like what he eats, or how much?
well, i'll give you both.

stuff he eats...

he eats basicly anything i can get that is OK for him to eat, chicken, beef, pork, ribs, goat, herring, pig feet, beef liver. thats all he has had so far because thats all i can find, the store gets new stuf in all the time.

how much stuff he eats...

he usualy eats around 2% to 3% of his body weight a day. he weighs around 65 pounds. so he should eat about a pound to a pound and a half a day.

its not that he sin eating enough! actuly, he is getting a little "chunkey" around the middle.

mypoundpup00133, I really, really hate what I'm going to type, but I'm going to type it anyway.
I hope you understand that I'm not saying it to be mean, but only to try to help. Thank goodness it's only a discussion board and you don't have to pay any attention to a word I say if you choose not to.

Even though you've done wonders with your dog; when it comes to this, I feel that you've created your own problem by switching to the raw feedings. I typed the reasons for thinking that in my earlier post.

Now here goes: You said,

quote:

i dont think he would ever do it to hurt me, i think he is just doing what instics tell him.

Please don't kid yourself; instincts or not, when he bit you, he meant to hurt you. He warned you by snarling and growling and you didn't believe him. But when he bit you, he did hurt you enough to convince you to leave him alone. It worked! If you continue doing what you're doing, the situation will only get worse!

If this is allowed to continue and he bites you again; your parents will not put up with it.
As a parent; I wouldn't have put up with it either! Then you're going to wind up with a dog that no one wants.

I'm taking a shot in the dark here. Feel him carefully underneath his fur and I'll bet you'll discover that he has lost weight. Or better yet, give him a bath and when he's wet, you'll notice the weight loss even more.

If I'm wrong, I sincerely apologize in advance for misunderstanding your problem. But if he has lost weight; (or not) please consider putting him back on kibbled food. A dog that isn't getting enough food to make him comfortable, or the proper nutrients, will naturally protect the food he does get.

You'll probably get many other responses and believe it or not; this is one of the times, I really, really hope I'm wrong and there is another simpler solution!

I wish you nothing but the best in finding a workable solution to this problem!

Yeah, that was a little harsh applesmom, but you said what needed to be said.

My Dad won't have a food aggressive dog in the house either. Except for a pup which I would be able to train out of the habit early and easy without causing myself harm.

Now that Trina is getting old, he gets worried about having kids in the house. She has actually snapped at me and my friends before. Although she's never actually bitten me, I have to be careful around her, and ask guests to refrain from making sudden movements. I actually believe she's loosing her memory due to her change in behavior. This is a new problem of mine which I'll post in Dog dish.

Right now I sure wish I'd read the discussion on raw feeding. Since I had no intention of ever feeding raw I missed most of it.

I did read enough to get the impression that the entire diet shouldn't consist of raw meat only. Energy, protein, fat, vitamin, and mineral nutrition; carbohydrates, fiber, and factors influencing nutrient needs, such as physical activity and environment, are all important too. It's common knowledge that certain green vegetables have a calming effect on humans. I'd suspect it would do the same with animals.

Scientific research has shown that up to 50 percent of an adult dog's daily diet can come from carbohydrates, including between 2.5 and 4.5 percent from fiber. Approximately 5.5 percent of the diet should come from fats and 10 percent from protein. Does a raw meat diet provide this balance?

Calories count too, a 65 pound dog would require 1800 to 2000 kilocalories per day.
If I read the calculater right, 1 calorie equals 0,001 kilocalorie. (My math skills are terrible)

A chicken breast would provide about 250 calories, a chicken leg, 200 and a wing 200.
Anyone that's good at math can figure this out.
I can't!

One more observation and I'll stop. One of the telltale signs of poor nutrition is often an unaturally distended abdomen.

Wait, I thought 1000 calories is equal to 1 kilo calorie sense the prefix kilo equals 1,000 .

If your calculations are correct, then 1 kcal is equal to one calorie??? Boy, you got me confused now applesmom.

What if 1 kilocalorie is one thousandth of a calorie? Then, a chicken leg which is 200 calories should be divided by .oo1. And according to my calculator(a TI-83+) that equals 200,000 kilocalories ?! Don't count on that being right, please .

Or if 1 Kcal does equal 1000 calories, then 1 chicken leg would only provide .2 Kilocalories. I am totally confused

Ha ha, you're right sugarbird. I'm much more confused than you are! Maybe the two don't even have that much to do with each other for all I know.

When I went to school we didn't have to learn one tenth of the math you do today. Lucky for me!

To be honest non of it makes any sense to me. Here's a link to a conversion chart. See what you think. Link to conversion chart

A kilo is one thousand. I understand it to mean that 1 kilocalorie is...one thousand calories.

actluy applesmom1, i think my dog is actuly gaining weight. as i said before, he is getting a little chunkey around the middle. and when i gave you a list of foods he eats, thats just the types, he may get 2 or 3 chicken legs a day, not just one.

and one reason i think he is gaining weight so rapidly is he hasnt gotten much exersice latley. but now that my summer vacation is comming up, i'll be able to do alot more with him.



what happend was realy strange. the day before i just went up and picked up his food and he didnt do anything, not a growl or nothing. he just sat up and waited calmly until i gave it back to him, and then the next day, it was like a bomb blew up or something! he was great then suddenly, bam-he was back to square one.

I give a table spoon of veggie mix a day or every few days, I know people who give veggies occassionally, not every day, and have perfectly healthy dogs. My dogs don't get grains at all.

The idea that carbs should make up 50% of a dog's diet sounds ridiculous to me. I saw that idea on the website of a low-quality kibble company that included lots of grains in its food. Dogs lack salivary amylase, a carbohydrate digesting enzyme - it wouldn't be of much use to them, since they don't have food in their mouth long enough for salivary enzymes to take effect. And while they do have pancreatic amylase, carbs that aren't slightly pre-digested by the time they get to the duodenum in the small intestine to which pancreatic secretions are carried, are unnecessarily taxing on the system.

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/sampleraw.htm

"Dr. Swift DVM explains why it's not a good idea to feed cooked grains to your pets:"Carnivores cannot maintain long term production of the quantity of amylase enzyme necessary to properly digest and utilize the carbohydrates. In addition, the proteins in grains are less digestive than animal proteins. As a result, the immune system becomes irritated and weakened by the invasion of foreign, non-nutritive protein and carbohydrate particles. Allergies and other chronic immune problems may develop. The pet’s pancreas will do its best to keep up with the demand for amylase. What does this pancreatic stress do over a long time? I don’t know, but it cannot be good. I suspect that dental calculus may be another problem promoted by grain consumption."

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/fatpets.htm#grains

"Why have grains become so "ingrained" in pet feeding? To the best of my knowledge, grains were mainly introduced by the pet food industry. The high carbohydrate content provides CHEAP calories. In addition, grains assist in binding ingredients. We have become so used to feeding grains to dogs and cats that most of us get nervous when we decide not to use them. I know people who have been "grain-free" feeding and doing very well. My own cat is one example."

http://www.barfworld.com/html/learn_more/nograin.shtml

"The biochemical/physiological basis for problems directly related to the ingestion of grains relates to blood insulin levels in response to blood sugar levels. The ultimate effects of high carbohydrate diets include swings in blood sugar and insulin, insulin resistance and high blood sugar. This in turn results in pathological alterations in eicosanoid production which in turn leads to obesity, hypertension, fluid retention, musculoskeltal, vascular, renal, hepatic, CNS and cardiac disease, and finally in many instances cancer. That is, the ingestion of grain and other starchy foods (including simple sugars of course) produces or helps in a major way to produce most if not all of the degenerative diseases. There are other factors which are involved, particularly when it comes to feeding commercial pet food, including a lack of protective factors, abysmally poor protein quality, the presence of toxins in abundance, and the almost complete absence of healthy fats."

http://www.preciouspets.org/newsletters/articles/grains-in-pet-food.htm

"Contemporary canine nutritionists explain that dogs do not process complex carbohydrates (grains) well. Studies demonstrate that unlike humans, dogs do not 'carbo-load,' that is, store up energy from meals high in complex carbohydrates. While human athletes successfully practice this technique, it results in an accumulation of lactic acid in dogs (which causes the muscular pain experienced after unaccustomed exercise).

Grains are also full of carbohydrates which can be easily converted to sugars. Cancer cells feed on sugars, and it is believed that by decreasing the amount of carbohydrate in the diet, we may greatly reduce the risk of cancer (which is a growing problem among modern dogs and cats).

The makers of prescription dog foods advertise the use of high-quality, whole grains in their food. They say these provide and "excellent source of protein" for dogs. Large amounts of grain may be an appropriate source of protein for some species...but NOT so for animals primarily designed to eat meat!

Which brings me to what 'grains' in commercial pet food really are. When whole grain is used in dog food (and even cat food), it has often been deemed unfit for human consumption due to mold, contaminants, or poor handling practices. Some brands reportedly contain damaged, spilled, and spoiled grain known as "the tail of the mill." This can include the hulls, chaff, straw, dust, dirt, and sand swept from the mill floor at the end of each week, which are totally unnatural nutritional ingredients! Most of these ingredients, such as peanut hulls, are used strictly for "filler" and have no nutritional value at all! They are also economical for the pet food companies!"

And so on. Heh.

In short, grains=evilbadOHGODNO

Yes!----- grains=NO WAY! .

shae_- i heard you dont have to give anmy sort of veggies at all. and that all dogs need for veggies is dailey grazing. you know, grass and stuff.

do you think i should get a meat scale? my dog can gain weight and lose weight very quickly so do you think it might be a good idea for me to get one?

Here's more information on dogs and grains.
I don't think this web site is trying to sell anything besides scientific information

http://www.wonderquest.com/DogSaliva.htm

mypoundpup like everyone else here I'm very interested in why your dog exhibited such behavior so suddenly.
I hope this problem is resolved soon

thanks waviewer. i would like to know why he did that too. its not like him. its probably because he was a stray and had to fight for scraps of food his whole life and now he has somthing realy good(raw meat) so he doesn want to give it up. i dont blame him for that, i am not going to let him continue with that, but i dont think it is his fault.

quote:

i am not going to let him continue with that, but i dont think it is his fault.

Making excuses for him isn't going to solve the problem.

At this late date, it doesn't matter whose fault it is. Right now it's his and your problem and you're the only one that can deal with it.

Somehow you must change the complete set of circumstances that caused the incident so that he never has the opportunity to repeat it.

In my opinion feeding raw food outside in the summertime is a recipe for disaster in more ways than one!

Good luck, mypoundpup. I hope you work it out.

i ususaly feed him inside, he is eating outside now because we are painting our kitchen and it is the only place for him to eat in the house, it is almost done so he will probably be back in the kitchen in 1 or 2 days.

i am just saying that i am not blameing him for not wanting me to take him food. i am not makeing excuses for him. i am DEFINETLY going to fix this, no doubt about it. how long it will take, i got no idea, but i am going to do whatever it takes.