I was disappointed in last nights show, I tune in every week to see them perform the surgery and to try to learn more about the pre-surgery process. Last nights show was like a version of the dating game, except for the two surgeries. I learned more about the lap band and about how fat affects your liver. At the end of the show I was left wondering if that show followed Mondays show just to show the doctors flip flopping on their protocol. I still don't understand how they can justify operating on Marc and not on Charles. I know this post is going to make me out to be the bad guy, but I'm not, I just ask the questions no one else will ask for fear of looking mean.

quote:

Last nights show was like a version of the dating game, except for the two surgeries. I learned more about the lap band and about how fat affects your liver. At the end of the show I was left wondering if that show followed Mondays show just to show the doctors flip flopping on their protocol. I still don't understand how they can justify operating on Marc and not on Charles.

robbie,
i didn't understand why dating was part of the show at all either. when she was talking to those men in the club i could see why she wasn't having any luck finding anyone to date her. i think she was very pushy and dramatic. that's just my opinion though.

i don't understand why they agreed to do the surgery on marc who was much heavier than charles but turned charles down. they don't seem to stick to their basic guidelines and the rules change too often.
i don't understand what difference 2 weeks would make in losing weight either. they did marc right away.

i guess i'm another bad guy!

The reason has less to do with size as it does the weight you lose right before surgery. Marc lost over 100 pounds while in the hospital on a liquid diet before his surgery and Charles had not. This loss right before surgery helps to shrink the liver which is right in the middle of everything the doctors are operating on. It makes the surgery easier and therefor much safer for the patient. For a patient of Charles' size this can reduce his complications 30% or so. So this makes it a big deal. Some surgeons will cancel surgery if patients have not lost the required amount of weight which is usualy 10% of their excess.

I don't think either of you are "bad guys" for not understanding this. I hope this helps you to understand a little more.

quote:

This loss right before surgery helps to shrink the liver which is right in the middle of everything the doctors are operating on. It makes the surgery easier and therefor much safer for the patient.

justy1234,
i saw the show again last night and marc's surgery. when the doctors opened him up his liver was a mess and they were very shocked.
i wonder if charles' liver would have been worse than that?

It is very possible that his liver could have been worse had they not had him wait. Regardless, if waiting two weeks helps make his surgery safer, then how can anyone think it is a bad thing? Was the timing inconvenient? Yep. But from the previews, it seems that Mr. Scott got over being upset and heads back to the doctors.

As far as the show with Cora dating, it seems to me that it is a way to allow the viewers to see how a person's life can change if they have the surgery and follow the program well. It is a part of following up with patients and their lives after their surgery.

I find it interesting that you chose the words pushy and dramatic to describe Cora, and am curious about why that particular word choice.

Pushy, dramatic? The girl hasnt dated anyone due to her weight problem. She is new to the dating scene and will probably take a long time to come out of her shell and open up. The guys that she was talking to may have been in the same boat or something like that. In any case, I think she was doing fine for a first timer.

quote:

I find it interesting that you chose the words pushy and dramatic to describe Cora, and am curious about why that particular word choice.

when cora was sitting in the club with the men she was in their faces talking too much, throwing her arms around and using a laugh that seemed to be put on. i think that "in your face" posture turns people off.
she's very attractive and her body looks great but it's better to less obvious about her interest.

quote:

Originally posted by tinlady97:
justy1234,
i saw the show again last night and marc's surgery. when the doctors opened him up his liver was a mess and they were very shocked.
i wonder if charles' liver would have been worse than that?

What Marc had was cirrohis of the liver. The weight he lost presurgery may or maynot have helped his condition. Most people do not have "fatty liver disease." If you see all the other surgeries this is an exception. Charles may have this disease or may not. Either way I'm with Kim (kvalera) on this one. Two weeks in a small price to pay to help lower your chances of complications. But I admit if someone asked me to postpone surgery the day before the event - I'd be a little ticked too.

I don't think Charles would have minded the two weeks if he had been told a week or two before the surgery instead of the day before. I really don't have an opinion on how the girl was acting in the club, because everytime they started talking about her I would channel surf for a few mins and flip back when it was over. I don't think she looked "great", maybe average, a little chubby.

maybe not chubby, but thick, at the end when she was loading her truck, those jeans made her look a little thick, that's okay though.

Robbie,
I can not believe how you are talking about cora. She has come so far and achieved so much and you have the nerve to speak poorly about her apperance. Talk like that is what will keep her self esteem low. Comments like that from a MAN makes it even worse.

Cora is beautiful and has come a long way. I admire her and only hope to achieve what she has. Cora has 1000% more courage than I do. Not to many people will give up their comfort zone move to a new city and start over.

Stop with the negativity and take what you see on the show for only half of the picture. We are only seeing a very small edited version of many hours, days, and months of these people's lives. None of us should be passing judgement until we walk in their shoes. This includes any judgements and actions that the Dr. Ds make.

quote:

Originally posted by heylo_140:
Robbie,
I can not believe how you are talking about cora. She has come so far and achieved so much and you have the nerve to speak poorly about her apperance. Talk like that is what will keep her self esteem low. Comments like that from a MAN makes it even worse.

Cora is beautiful and has come a long way. I admire her and only hope to achieve what she has. Cora has 1000% more courage than I do. Not to many people will give up their comfort zone move to a new city and start over.

Stop with the negativity and take what you see on the show for only half of the picture. We are only seeing a very small edited version of many hours, days, and months of these people's lives. None of us should be passing judgement until we walk in their shoes. This includes any judgements and actions that the Dr. Ds make.

Amen.

quote:

Originally posted by tinlady97:
when cora was sitting in the club with the men she was in their faces talking too much, throwing her arms around and using a laugh that seemed to be put on. i think that "in your face" posture turns people off.
she's very attractive and her body looks great but it's better to less obvious about her interest.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but that is definitely "fat thinking". One thing that I've realized is that I did not make my needs and interests known when I was so overweight. I tried to "blend in" to the scenery rather than being seen. I was just talking to Austin about this yesterday...it was almost like I was "apologizing" to the people around me for being fat by being agreeable and non-confrontational.

I don't think Cora was "in your face" at all. I think she was showing a confidence that she had not previously been able to comfortably feel. I think she should be incredibly proud of herself!

And Robbie...thick? You are kidding me, right? I've never intentionally offended anyone on these message boards, but this one has me very, very close. Cora looks fantastic. And Heylo, I don't think Cora is going to have low self-esteem because of comments like this...she knows that thick describes the skulls of those making stupid, rude comments and in no way describes her.

I was hoping people would understand my comments and know that in no way was I trying to offend Cora. I think what I said should be looked at as a compliment, I just wish to GOD I looked average, even below average would be nice right now. When your overweight all really want is to look normal and be the average person that blends in with the crowd. If you didn't know what she looked like before the surgery and you saw her in a crowd you wouldn't pick her out say "wow she looks 'fantastic', or she is a 'true beauty'", she looks nice just like most of the people in a crowd would look nice. She wouldn't stick out has chubby or ugly or anything like that, she just blends, and for people who have been overweight all their life that's nice. Please keep in mind I'm not putting her down, I have all the respect in the world for someone who would go through all the surgery she has had to improve her quality of life, and I wish her all the best.

I apologize if I came off harsh. My temper flared when I saw "thick". I could only wish to be THICK. The problem with these forums, blogs, emails, etc., is that you can not always pick up on the tone of a message.

However, I have still seen a lot of negativity on this board that I don't think is appropriate. This is to everyone, not just you (Robbie). I think we all (including myself)to stop and try to see things a little more clearly and beyond just what they are showing us.

There are lots of reasons the pre-surgery weight loss is essential. First, it does reduce risk. Let's say Marc's risk of dying on the table was 5% at his original weight. By losing that 100lbs, it dropped to 3% - that's a 40% risk reduction for him. Now, say Charles' risk was just 3%, but by losing that 50lbs, they could get it down to 2% - that's 30% risk reduction.

Now, add in, when they do a rapid weight loss, everything shrinks. The stomach shrinks, the liver shrinks, etc. That gives them more room to work INSIDE THAT PATIENT. That's part of the risk reduction.

Finally, there's always a concern that a patient is not really a good candidate for the procedure. If he can't comply with the pre-surgical diet for just a month, how the heck does he expect to deal with a LIFETIME of post-surgical diet? These surgeries don't take away all the issues that cause people to overeat. You don't wake up and become a normal, healthy eater. You still have to overcome the cravings and temptations you had before. And now you're at greater risk. What if you go home and stuff yourself like you used to, and rupture your newly tiny stomach? This does happen. OF COURSE these docs want to see that the patient is able to stick to their orders, that he's motivated enough to follow through. Otherwise, they haven't helped him; they've just made his overeating more dangerous.

That's why the docs were pushing Charles to get busy with the diet. He had lost some. They had a good feeling about his motivation. But the fact that he had not lost enough made them worry. A) They want the procedure to be as low risk as they can make it for that patient. B) If there's any chance the patient is cheating the pre-surgical diet, they want to get him to take it seriously.

This surgery doesn't "fix" you. It's a tool, as the doctors keep saying. There is still a LOT of self-discipline and struggle ahead. The best candidates are the ones who are ready to do whatever it takes to make it work.

As for Cora, I think she looks stunning. She'll get back into the swing of dating and knock them dead. And the social adjustments ARE part of the WLS process. I was at an HOA meeting the other day, and I was trying to express my concern about something, and the president just pretty much talked over me. That happens a lot to me right now, at 282 lbs. It never used to happen when I was cute and thin in college. I don't think people thought I was any smarter back then, but they seemed to be much more interested in what I had to say. Also, one of my sisters brought her fiance to meet the family a while back. The guy WOULD NOT look at me. He would talk to me, but his eyes went everywhere but to my face. It was like the mere sight of me offended him. Needless to say, I am SO RELIEVED my sis didn't end up marrying that schmuck. Would've made Christmas dinners pretty darned depressing. And even if I lost weight and he started looking at me, I wouldn't like him one bit better.

Just so I can get a fix on your "stunning" definition, would you say Cindy Crawford is "stunning"? Ok how about Roseanne Barr? Here is my scale of 1 to 10: Roseanne Barr=1, Cindy Crawford=9 and I would say Cora=5 maybe a 6. Now don't get mad, let me finish. Before the surgery I would say maybe a 3, so she has really improved the way she looks and most importantly the way she feels. Just for the record I'm a 0 or maybe even a negative 2, so I would be happy just to make it to a positive 2 or 3. Once again let me say this, I'm not insulting anyone except maybe Roseanne Barr.

"Stunning" goes more than skin and looks. Actions, personality, intelligence play into the 1-10 scale. Unfortunately to many people can't get past the looks to make further judgements.

Keep working on your diet Robbie. I think once the weight starts (or continues) to come off and you feel better about yourself, then I you will probably start moving up that scale. Note, I said FEEL better about yourself. I don't think your choice of 0, -1 has anything to do with how you look, but more how you feel about your looks.

Yes, I think she's actually quite lovely. Fortunately for all of us, there is no one standard of physical beauty. But more to the point, there are things that are FAR more important than that, like kindness - qualities that make a person worth knowing - we all know physical beauty is no indication of a person's heart. And when a person has that good heart, in my experience, others will see him or her as attractive, no matter what s/he looks like.

Robbie. I think this weeks show was a good thing to see because even tho the gal had good success with the surgery she still could not see herself as slim. I missed a few weeks so I dont know what Charles issues were. Just like the lady who had lapband surgery, her BF likes thick ladies and tried to talk her out of it, there is much more psycological things that go with the weight.

hi,well it did look like the dating game,but it was also important to show that there are emotions after wls that no one adresses...so i think that was all they where doing...because there are alot of people that have these issues and no one talks about them...that all happened to me and i didn't know where to turn to or where to go...i wished i had this kind of support when i had my wls in 1998 it would of helped me out...

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it was also important to show that there are emotions after wls that no one adresses

i don't think a tv show on wls is the place to discuss the after effects of that surgery. i'm sure it's probably different for each person on case by case terms but time is limited.
i think dealing with the after effects should be taken to some kind of psych therapy and worked on individually.

tinlady, I kind of get what you're saying regarding the after effects being different for each person after surgery, but I also think that if some of those stories are not covered, the myth of WLS being the "magic bullet" will be reinforced rather than dispelled. People really need to understand that having the surgery is just one of the early steps in a very long and emotionally trying journey to good health. For people watching the show who are thinking about having surgery, they need to really understand that the battle with weight and emotions does not end with surgery.

Kvalera is right. Big Medicine is right to show the WHOLE picture, not just the "surgery saved my life" piece of it. And besides, it's their show. They can show whatever they like. I appreciate that they take the trouble to show the psychological components of this as well as the physical.

Of course any show that is on TV can show what they want to show, but if the people who watch the shows don't watch and the ratings go away so go the advertisers and if there aren't advertisers then there isn't a show.

And, quite frankly, I think they DO portray WLS as a "magic bullet". Have we seen any post-WLS "failures" yet? I don't think so. Anyone with severe post-surgery complications? No. People who self-sabotage and re-gain, in spite of the size of their stomach? No. So, in reality, to the general public, based on this particular show, this surgery really DOES look like a magic bullet. If you want to lose weight successfully and permanently, you HAVE to get this surgery.

You can talk about the post-WLS struggle until you're blue in the face, but people only believe what they see. And what we've seen so far is pre-surgery, surgery, massive weightloss success, or weightloss, plastic surgery, perfect body. The only "failures" we've seen so far are insurance company rejections. Maybe this will be covered in future episodes, I hope.

Or perhaps I'm alone in my observations.

quote:

Originally posted by v0xhumana:
And, quite frankly, I think they DO portray WLS as a "magic bullet". Have we seen any post-WLS "failures" yet? I don't think so. Anyone with severe post-surgery complications? No. People who self-sabotage and re-gain, in spite of the size of their stomach? No. So, in reality, to the general public, based on this particular show, this surgery really DOES look like a magic bullet. If you want to lose weight successfully and permanently, you HAVE to get this surgery.

You can talk about the post-WLS struggle until you're blue in the face, but people only believe what they see. And what we've seen so far is pre-surgery, surgery, massive weightloss success, or weightloss, plastic surgery, perfect body. The only "failures" we've seen so far are insurance company rejections. Maybe this will be covered in future episodes, I hope.

Or perhaps I'm alone in my observations.

I understand what you mean, and I'm assuming all people on the show have signed the waiver saying they want to be on the show. Would someone who 'failed' at their weight loss even after getting the surgery tool really want to be displayed to all the viewers?

I know I wouldn't.

quote:

Originally posted by audreychapple:

I understand what you mean, and I'm assuming all people on the show have signed the waiver saying they want to be on the show. Would someone who 'failed' at their weight loss even after getting the surgery tool really want to be displayed to all the viewers?

I know I wouldn't.

You make an interesting point, audrey. We do sign waivers when we agree to have our story told on the show, pretty much letting TLC have total access to our medical information and giving them rights to film us and use our story. It is tough sometimes to allow your story to be used even when you are being successful in your journey...I can't imagine what it would be like if I were not being successful.

I do think it would be helpful, though, to show the struggles that successful people go through to become successful. It is by no means an easy journey, and even along the road to success there are major bumps and hurdles to be faced. It's not all smoke and mirrors, or magic, but hard work that gets you to where you want to be.

Well, fortunately (from my perspective) it looks like most of us appreciate getting to see the post-surgical life changes, and not just the mechanics of the procedure itself.

It seems to me they HAVE shown (albeit briefly) patients who are struggling a bit post-surgery. They've certainly talked about it.

Do they show complications? Well, yes. There was an ep earlier this year where they had someone bleed badly on the table and they were quite concerned for awhile. They talked about the possibility of infection with another. I think it's to these guys' credit that they DON'T have a lot of major complications to show. They haven't had a single death yet.

I'm just glad they're doing this. I don't think I'm inclined to nit pick it to death.

quote:

Originally posted by kvalera:

I do think it would be helpful, though, to show the struggles that successful people go through to become successful. It is by no means an easy journey, and even along the road to success there are major bumps and hurdles to be faced. It's not all smoke and mirrors, or magic, but hard work that gets you to where you want to be.

Agreed! That's what I was getting at. Thanks for putting it so succinctly!

HI, this Cora from the "Dating Show" episode. It's funny to read things that people have wrote and not get emotional about it, but then I realize they don't know the whole story. I believe the point that the show wanted to make with me is that not only does the surgery affect a person physically, but emotionally as well. That it changes a person's body and mind. If I would have read the comments posted before surgery I would have been in tears, but now it's ok. I'm proud of how I look. I'm I still working hard? Heck Yeah. A day doesn't go by that I don't question my food choices or make myself excercise. I'm happy to be normal size and not be the largest one in the group. As for my "in the face" with dating. Well lets just say the setting and dates were a set-up. Nothing was natural about it. As for my hands flying around, I'm a very animated person and tend to talk with my hands and body all the time. That's just me. Dating is something very new to me and I'm learning as I go. Thankfully I have learned that it's ok to laugh at yourself, b/c if not I would be in trouble. I'm now 3 1/2 years post surgery and still having to deal with new emotions and situations. The surgery was not a magic bullet, it is a TOOL to help. Every single day is still a struggle to make the right choices. Words of wisdom-It is what you make of it. If you have the surgery but are not committed to making the lifestyle change then you will not succeed and the only one to blame is yourself. Simple choices such as drinking a coke. Would I love to have an icey cold coke. You bet. But do I do it? Heck No! I gave those up on February 20, 2004. Small steps and simple choices make the difference. You can do it, you just have to remember that you are worth it and if not having that coke helps you to live one minute more of a exciting, active life, then no coke for me. Thank you for all the kind words as well as the interesting comments. I appreciate it all. Keep smiling, b/c I will be.