[quote][quote]But if God is behind this, I am interested in what is yet to come from all this.[/quote]

A couple of other people in this discussion have also perhaps suggested that God may have wanted us to find this out for some reason. I'm curious as to what other's think if this might be true? Why would God show us this now? Today?[/quote]

I missed this earlier...

Of course God (the Universe, whatever you want to call your concept of God) wanted us to find this tomb! I believe everything happens for a reason, there are no coincidences. Everything is unfolding exactly as was meant to. We just can't see the reason why... yet.

The fact that we - different factions? - were all brought TOGETHER to discuss this tomb is indicative that maybe a grander plan behind the scenes is unfolding under our very noses!

Well I think that is what human history is, the unfolding of Gods will. Eaiser to accept that as we view the " Good" things in our history, much harder to accept that as we view the " Evil" in our history, but it is the same God who rules over both. There is no Good or Evil in our history that God couldnot have stopped, if he willed it. That alone convinces me that he has been behind the scenes manipulating it all.

The finding of the Tomb, or any event one can suggest, it is impossible for it to have happened if it was against Gods will. If anything Evil or Good has happened, that God didnot want to happen, then it is more powerful than God. And in my view, nothing could be more powerful than him. Nothing that I can imagine.

Peace.

I just don't know about everything happening for a reason. Reason itself seems to elude people too often. I don't know if God allows things to happen because what happens is His Will or if He allows things to develop so that people have to deal with what comes, good or bad, because how we learn handle what is before us is so important. I really couldn't say what is God's Will. Innocent people die all of the time, but that is the way it is. Through Jesus was a lesson that there is something worth giving your life for, something beyond yourself that matters.

The only thing I can think of that relates is a volcano erupting - all the trees and plants in the way die. It has nothing to do with whether they are fruitful or beautiful or sickly or what, they just happen to be in the path. Maybe it is not God's Will that this or that plant in particular has to die, but that the natural course has to take place for the good over all. But the rich soil that is left and the new growth that is spawned are a part of a beautiful regeneration that would not be possible without the destruction wrought by the volcano. It is all a part of the natural cycle. We as humans are a part of the natural cycle as well. There are things going on that go beyond ourselves, our personal lives. Maybe it isn't God's will that anyone innocent in particular dies, but that a larger developement could not occur if He had to save every innocent person. I really don't know. I would wish like most people that something destructive not have to occur in order to bring about something new. Or maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about !!!

You are correct btani. Everything happens for a reason. All things work together for the good.

Well I cannot agree that when even innocent people die, that it is not Gods Will, I cannot accept that. In my View, Only God controls Death, and I see no exceptions in that. It may seem harsh to some, and I understand that, but Death to God is different, it means nothing to him, because he is a Life Giver and can give the Life back, and give it back far greater than he took it.

All Deaths then can ONLY occur directly within Gods Will, there is no such thing as a human being dying against Gods Will. Its just not. Life and Death are in Gods Hands. God does not allow Death by Chance or happenstance, and a study of that in Scripture will bear this out. I recall reading that it is only Once appointed for a human to Die. Who but God could make that appointment?

Peace.

I thought that God would only handle who would have an eternal life, unless he had a special reason to intervene. But I don't know.

God handles all life, it is his to give and take, and nothingelse can give it or take it but him.

Now if you know of any other power, that holds power over death, I am willing to listen to who or what you think it is, if its not God.

God is the Alpha and Omega, which means he is the beginning of Life, and the End of it.

Peace.

[quote]Well I cannot agree that when even innocent people die, that it is not Gods Will, I cannot accept that.[/quote]

But you are deceived by the "illusion" of the flesh. We are not really our bodies. It's the body that dies, not the "person" - who is eternal spirit. Death is an illusion - and he who understands this will never "taste" death.

I do get that, our bodies are not everlasting like our spirits can be. Death may be an illusion - I don't know. I wish people didn't have to suffer so much - suffering is real enough especially if you are the one having to suffer. It doesn't seem so real to people who don't.

Well yes, I agree that the human deaths I speak of are temporal, but the Bible calls it Death. Rather than get into a discourse on what Death is, then one can say that all who get " Put to Sleep", or " Die", or their Life is extingushed, their human living comes to an end, however you conceive that, God still controls it. No one can pass from this life as we know it, unless it is Gods will for them to do so.

It does not matter how they died or went to sleep, or passed away, God still willed it, or it couldnot have occured.

Now if one disagrees with that, then I ask that to be explained. How can a human die, If God didnot want them dead? That would mean that God does not control Death.

It does not matter how they died, in a war, in a rape, in 9-11, in a murder, their death was still willed by he who gave them life. If this is not so, then explain to me what is.

Peace.

Well, it seems to me that maybe God created all humans in their physical bodies that die. He seems to have set up a system to where all humans eventually die physically - does that mean he interferes with or plans every minute detail in which every death will occur? I don't know. What seems to matter most is a spiritual rebirth. That is what I think He is likely more interested in the details of. It seems to me that God created a variable world. There are various ways in which a human can live and die. Maybe He set it up so that He doesn't have to always play a hand in every detail that occurs on earth. He left the garden so to speak. What does that mean? I am really confused about it myself. There is no reason in horrible suffering especially for a child - what does it accomplish? Why would God play any part in that personally? I just don't know.

Well I would agree that God may not, in certain instances, take a hand in how a person is tortured or suffering before they die, but it is still inpossible for them to die unless he wills it. God cannot be excused from the Death of a Human. You cannot seperate Him from Death, no matter how horrible or unjust the Death was, God still is the Author and Finisher of all Life.

The Whole Earth is his, and everything on it. No Life, human or not, can end against his Will.

Peace.

For example Btani,

I mentioned on another post that John the Baptist was beheaded. Do you think that angels came to God and informed him that Johns head was just cut off, and God asked them" Well when did this happen, and who is responsible?" Do you think that he had nothing to do with it, no matter how horrible it was? How could John have been Killed, and God NOT want him to be?

I just see no way around that.

Peace.

I agree that His Will reigns supreme, and I bow to it. He made so much beauty.

No one should be Threatened by the suggestions given by this newfound Tomb. But it is human nature to be Threatened, but also to create threats where there are none.

For example, this " Doctrine of Eternal Hell punishing Fire", is the most biggest created Threat that I have seen placed on fearful Humanity. If one would study the Old Testement closely, not one single person is Threatened with eternal hell fire punishment, nor is anyone warned that such a thing would be the result of them living a life of Sin.

All of those millions of humans who have lived and died during those days, were NEVER threatened with such a thing. God was NEVER that meanacing to anyone during those times. But yet many thrive on threatening others with that now. Many even use that as a basics for teaching Salvation. Imagine that, teaching Salvation and Hope, by threatening others.

Peace.

Given the belief of what I have just stated above, any religon that uses any kind of Threats on people, in my view, is not truly of God. They may believe that they are doing God a service in their intimidation of people, but the gospel of the Bible is ultimately the Spreading of " The Good News of Salvation to all", which is freely given by God. It is Hope and the Love of God Combined with Gods Promise, and it has no need to threaten anyone.

People are Threatened, or use Threats, because they themselves are motivated by themselves, to do that or receive that.

Peace.

So then, given that the God who men search for is greater than them, then what men ultimately find out cannot be greater than God also, so there is really nothing that we can find that Threatens God himself or his purpose, but only OUR understanding OF him is really Threatened.

For example, if we find that God is Female, but we have taught or understood him to be male, that then becomes a Threat to us, not to him. ( but understand, God is neither male or female, this is just in example). Or if we find that God is very Tall, but we taught that he was short. That then becomes a Threat. Or if we find that Jesus was married, but we taught that he was single, that then BECOMES a Threat.

But if you look at the human pathology behind this, we are conditioning ourselves to be threatened by things which may or maynot be true. The Truth should never be threatening, but we make it so by trying to protect our OWN preconceived understandings.

And we see that on display on any website that is open to our opinons.

Peace.

I was thinking the other day about this topic of things being a " Threat" to this tomb find. Jesus very life was told to be about life itself, I think he in fact refered to himself as " The Bread of Life". How can a tomb, or a container of Death, be considered a threat to Life? I just do not understand that.

Peace.

The real Threat to the Christian community, when the ramifications of this find, and more finds to come, are finnaly revealed, will be how gullible our belief system is to the influence of our own emotions mixed with our beliefs, and the tampering of our forefathers with the bible and things in our religous history.

Then we will see how so many historians and religous leaders, have THEMSELVES tampered with and molded the information we have.

The manipulation of the bible mostly occurs in the pulpits of churchs, and from there is transfered into the minds of the believers.

We will find that our history has been manipulated by men, and by God himself.

That mixture of manipulation is why we are in the condition we are in.

Peace.

What is of more intrest to me, is why God wanted to lay the egg of human life into a mixture of flesh, with good and evil. Now thats really interesting. Its almost like he thinks of this great creation, such as humanity, but then he thinks of an equally great " Oppisition" to humanitys future. To Humanity itself. In essence, he injects a type of " Slow acting posion", which could either kill immediately, or take generations to kill, or just hamper potential, and not kill. Because without Evil I think humanity would have progressed much faster, and far more greater than it has.

And I think the evidence of God doing this, is contained in this " Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil". He obviously created this tree, which means he created both Good and Evil, he obviously planted this tree in the Garden of Eden, then he placed the man in the Garden. This is where he " Injected the Poision of Evil into the Man". Because good cannot be considered a poision.

Some may argue that God was " After a Choice from the Man", trying to see what the man would choose. I disagree with that, because he placed the different forces, within the same tree. Then he Injected the " Leader of the force of Evil", or the serpent, into the Garden. This was not fair, because " Jesus, the leader of the force of Good", was not allowed into the garden to counter act this, nor did God look to prevent it, so the couple was " Left to themselves", to fend for themselves. And that there was the Spiritual Death sentence to humanity, to Adam and his generate. Jesus was sent much, much later to earth. But " Only because of what God had done here". Not because of Adams Choice, but because of the Choices that God had made.

And this is why I cannot accept that any of Adams generate is to face some kind of Doom from God. Because it was God who designed the Events in the Garden of Eden, not Adam.

And this is why I believe the future of humanity is not really in danger, or facing a Threat from God.

Peace.

One thing I believe God does from time to time is " Break the Pride in Man". Oh does this tomb find do that to so many who have professed to know things about God. This discovery has broken the Pride of many who deem themselves noteworthy. And I think God will continue this pattern of smashing pride. I think more discoverys are going to come, and I think God will communicate more with our scientist and geologist than he will with our churchs. And that will crush a whole lot of peoples pride.

Peace.

The Pathology of God is not easy to understand, I think near impossible to understand. One thing I think is true about God is this: He is totally unconcerned about any human opinons about what his plans are. He has not asked for advice, he is not taking votes, he couldcareless who is offended.

There are other things about God that I think are sigificant and shows that he cannot be manipulated by humans. There is no power to challange him or to stop him. There are none that can seduce his mind, and he is uneffected by human sob stories. And our unbelief is meaningless to him.

There is no threat to God himself.

Peace.

Since there is no credible threat to God, nor to his plans, there is then no human discussion that is credible on earth, that does not support him. Most of what we discuss, does not anyway. The earth is just like a giant incubator, which simply is holding a fantastic brew of pre-life that God has on hold. A pre-life that is regenerating more and more of this " Form of Life", while it is still yet within the womb. A fantastic universe surrounds this incubator that is earth, and it too is being held in a kind of cycle, that is nowhere near its potential.

And God is preparing far greater wonders that he will unravel and reveal to our reality. Then he will finish what he has been doing, and place humanity into its rightful place with him. All of humanity.

There is no threat to God, thus, there is no threat to humanity.

And so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Peace.

As time passes, we drift futher and futher from the reality called God, which is the very reason we are drifting toward meaninglessness. If God were drawing nearer to earth, then earth would be healing. Earth is progressively getting worse, which can be directly related to God keeping his distance from humanity. I think its like a diamectrical proof, the fact that so much evil exist on earth, is proof enough to me that God is not here, or even near the planet earth. I think the closer God gets to something, the less of evil can exist. I think its diamectrical for sure.

Peace.

The real threat to humanity is sin, there are no ifs ands or buts about it. Every single human problem that exist, is directly related to sin. And Jesus was " Sent" to save humanity from their sin.Therefore NOTHING about Jesus life should be a threat to humanity. How he combed his hair is not a threat. What food he ate, or what he drank is not a threat. Where he went in his travels, or who he visted is not a threat. What race he was is not a threat. What clothes he wore is not a threat. How he lived and died is not a threat.

For God to have sent him here to save an entire world, there is just no way possible for Jesus to have threatened anything BUT Sin itself!That world responsibility leaves no room for error. No room for political correctness. No room for ANY fault whatsoever! Jesus was destined to walk this planet in perfection, and I trust that.

Nothing can be found or done to threaten Gods plan for humanity.

Peace.

Or maybe we don't need saved at all in the spiritual sence. Maybe we'll just keep pushing along all by ourselves in our struggle for survival on this planet like every other living thing here. The way it's always been and hopefully will be.

Theology will be pondered, threatened, changed and reinvented over and over like it always has been. Threats to spirituality are only temporary and imagined. Something to muse about to occupy our minds.

The real threat to humanity is ourselves. We've threatened each other from the dawn of time and often over theology. Some say we even threaten the planet. The real threats might read something like the depletion of natural resources, overpopulation, clearing of the rain forests, polution, nuclear annihilation or even global warming. I'm sure the list goes on.

Well yes, your list are certainly real threats to this planet, I would agree with that. But I would not agree with " Natural selection", which only means survival of the fittest, as the determined future of humanity. Firstly because everything that you listed, is getting worse and worser, and humanity is the root behind those problems. So I don't think its a figment of our minds that we need to be saved from ourselves.

Secondly, to dismiss the hope that the bible gives for our future, is to dismiss the only real hope that we have.

However, I am not against those who are satisfied with just living out their natural lives and being content with that. I can understand that, as I understand those who dismiss the existence of God. I can't blame anyone who has setteled for natural selection. The misery that has been and will be surely does negate much belief in anything but ourselves.

But as for me, I do not trust that we are life itself, and what we do, is all that life will be. No , not me. As for me, I would rather trust in the imaginary God, and hope in the bibles message.

Because if natural selection is all that will ever be, then all I will do is live and die with my hopes anyway. But the day of my death, I will look into the nothing, and tell it that I still trust that our lives are more than an occupation of our minds.

Peace.

There is a definte threat to humanity, which mostly goes undetected. 1John 4:6, refers to something interesting, its called" The Spirit of Error." That Spirit, has reaked untold damage upon humanitys quest for truth.

Further still, notice 1John 5:19;" The whole world lies in the power of the Evil one." I am not totally sure what that means, but it sure does not sound good.

This is the real threat to humanity. But look at what God has don