Samdj

You only have only the tip of the ice burg about that phrase it is actually far older then the movie.

And I like this forum fine. Thank you very much. I am enjoying myself very much.

As for Dungeons and Dragons.....Not much till I was in later HS but grew bored of it quickly.

I am sorry to disappoint you but I have stated before, no one not you or anyone else is going to chase me away.

Frankly you would find yourself still in the minority here.

I am not interested in a forum where everyone agrees. Your pal SBD might enjoy that sort of thing on that Catholic board he keeps advertising.

Now as I see you have made your choice we can continue.

Did I post on the wrong forum?


I posted this earlier.
[quote]On the contrary bd. There is a lot of disagreement on that catholic board. You see, just because some1 is catholic dose not mean we will agree on every matter. They even have a place to argue on the catholic message board. And no I did not take cowards way out. I said my peace and left. I do not want to best you and drive you away. You think just because stayed that means you won. Believe what you must. I am still young and growing in my faith. The bible says that I will have many tests in my life.[/quote]
And no it does allow people of different faiths to come on there to debate Catholicism

Denovo,
I was on here earlier discussing Catholicism and Christianity. I find BD doesn’t just hate Catholicism alone but the whole Christianity together. He just likes to take extra hits on Catholicism being that his relative had a bad experience with the church. And I really felt that was the only time where he opened up, when he told me that. It was then I understand why Catholicism bothered him so much. I'm no behavior expert but I believe as I said before he is out for some comfort or revenge against the church as well as Christianity. I am a strong catholic and I disagree very much with his views on Catholicism. A lot of them are twisted and if he is talking about something bad that occurred within the church during the dark ages; he will not bare in mind that dark ages mean that it was bad times. I don’t deny that the church did some bad things during those times. But as I said whats perfect who’s perfect. No 1 of course. But what don’t get is why is it his mission to hate it and end it(the church)
So basically we are just people of separate faiths discussing/arguing. And when a mod comes and closes a thread we just jump ship to a new one and pick up where we left off.

SBD,

[quote]I believe as I said before he is out for some comfort or revenge against the church as well as Christianity. I[/quote]

I have pointed out that the journey to finding God can be done through numerous routes. The route we take is a result of our earlier religious life experiences.

For some they can do it within organized religion ...others cannot.

You can... BD cannot.
Same God... just different route or organizational structure, if you will, required for each of you.

One thing you might keep in mind... when one breaks away from an institution to find God on their own... there are repercussions.

Aloness, rejection, loss of faith, hurt, and bitterness ... because of the intolerance of differences.

So one sets off to find truth.
And any reminder of the former institutional religion.. feels like its sucking the person back into the very unhappy past.

That's what your commnets evoke in him. Memories of a very unhappy past... that he's trying to leave behind.

I'm actually quite impressed with BD... his heart is in the right place... and his head is following along nicely.

I need to correct one thing with BD... when i talked about 'surrendering' with him... i forgot his age. The real benefits begin happening in our 30 and 40's and really comes on strongly later in life. But he's doing well along his path... for where he is chronologically.

And that's the thing. If the path works ... take it. Don't worry about the other guy's path.
Each is right... for each of you.

SBD,

I posted a long message with Mod held up.

Yes I am opposed to the Catholic church and much of the organized Christian churches.

The Catholic church has a strangle hold on some countries and people are imprisoned for not bowing down to the Catholic church.

The holy inquisition is still churning along but with a different name and now use a pen and money, instead of a sword.

Maybe it is because you are Catholic that you cannot see these things. You are unable to look objectively at your own religion and see what it is still doing.

One only has to look at the millions spent in the country to influence legislation in the us alone by the Bishops lobby.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1374/is_n5_v53/ai_13255809

BD,

Let me summarize the posting i had held up.

I was saying that anytime someone breaks away from a traditional church there are emotional reprecussions... that are dealt with over time.

Thaose reperccusions cause a sensitvity in us. Whenever memories of the 'escaped' institution arise they produce anxious uncomfortable feelings...feelings we wish to avoid.

So we go into 'fight' or 'flight' mode. To your benefit BD ... you fight. Good man.

And that's why you conflict -
shutting off (and out) bad memories.

At least that's my guess. What do you think?

On of the most grievous things you can see happening right now in the US.

Religious based health care providers are abusing the law in order to push their agenda on the public. The catholic church (and the evangelical mega churches) have set up hospitals that dominate entire areas and hold a monopoly on the health care market and then turn around and deny legal and approved health care to people and hide behind religious freedom.

The clearest example of this abuse is birth control there are ares in this country where one has to travel over a hundred miles to find a place that will fill their legal perscription for birth control. The religious groups are paying for people to go to school so that they can move into positions that allow them to do this.

I am against the Catholic corruption and domination seen in areas. I am not against every little community Catholic church. I was helped by a priest once who I will never forget, Father Joseph. He was a Carmelite and took his vow of poverty seriously.

Btani,

Mine was Sister Consulata, Mineral Springs Hospital Banff, Ab.

She was the one who understood and reassured me that all was ok.

There are good ones around.

Dev

I was never fully part of any traditional Church.

Though I have been to Catholic Mass many times.

I have watched what that faith has down to my family member. I have watched them drive out a priest who I respected deeply over a incident (perfectly legal). But yet protect priests who abuse children.

Btw Cardinal Law has nice cushy reward for his actions. He is adviser to the pope, lives at Vatican city....when he should really be in Jail

Looks like Cardinal Mahoney of LA is gonna get away as well.

Btani, You know Catholicism is not just roman. There is also polish, Byzantine and a few others. There are a lot of very good priests out there as well as some not so good ones.

I understand, my grandparents on my father's side tithed to their Catholic church in Penn. all their lives. I can't remember if it was for medical reasons or what, but one week my grandfather missed his tithing. He received a nasty letter about how he could be going to hll and all. Needless to say, they realized how they had been taken. There are good people though in every corner of the world.

Btani

I am of similar mindset.

On could view my opposition against The major organized religions.

They do not want to Live and Let live. But want to force all yo live by their way.

And to keep this all tomb related

The Catholic church and other Christian Religions are doing everything they can to bury any research that does not support their religion. This is NOT right.

[quote]The clearest example of this abuse is birth control there are ares in this country where one has to travel over a hundred miles to find a place that will fill their legal perscription for birth control. The religious groups are paying for people to go to school so that they can move into positions that allow them to do this.[/quote]

Oh, please do tell where this is? I have never heard of such a thing...do you dream this stuff up? What religion is this? IF someone has to drive that far to get a prescription filled it is because they live that far away from a pharmacy.

[quote]I have watched what that faith has down to my family member. I have watched them drive out a priest who I respected deeply over a incident (perfectly legal). But yet protect priests who abuse children.

Btw Cardinal Law has nice cushy reward for his actions. He is adviser to the pope, lives at Vatican city....when he should really be in Jail

Looks like Cardinal Mahoney of LA is gonna get away as well.[/quote]


So what did your priest do? So bitter...over what? What was his crime and his full name so that I can look him up and read his crime for myself? I'm sure there are articles. What church did he belong to?

Btani, tithing is run that way in many churches and not just the Catholic. Just tune in your tv...they all have their hand out. My advice to your Grandparents would be to be smart enough to change parishes. I have been a member of many churches and never been treated that way. All religions ask for financial support and we, as a congregation, should do what we can. Ours asks for 5%, if you can...it is not a have to. They also will accept your time, if you cannot afford the 5%. And if you can't give, they do not haunt you with letters or phone calls. Most religions expect the 10%. There are all kinds of churches that breathe down your neck for money...if they did that to me, I would be the first one to leave. Again, it is not the church to blame, but the priest..."man"...who runs the parish. You cannot say all Catholic churches are that way...that is being unfair and bias.

<quote>I have never heard of such a thing.</quote>

I guess you don't read the news much.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-11-08-druggists-pill_x.htm

http://www.americablog.com/2005/10/target-refuses-to-fill-womans.html

Here is an article that shows where it has been cemented into law the right to refuse.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0426/p11s01-usju.html

Now this is just some examples. There have been many many more. Pharmacies are not exactly boom business if you need a perscription and do not live in a city you may have to travel out of your way to get said perscription. There are now areas of the country where several pharmacies are not filling perscriptions based on "religious objections". As much as you want to play blind to it. This is one of the Catholic church pet issues to make sure legislation is in place to allow pharmacists to refuse on "moral" grounds and to also block any restriction on that right. Companies that have adopted rules to prevent this sort of thing have been met with massive protests and lawsuits.

<quote>What religion is this?</quote>

The Vatican started it and other Christian Groups have jumped on.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

<quote>IF someone has to drive that far to get a prescription filled it is because they live that far away from a pharmacy.</quote>

If you live in a rural area there may only be one pharmacy and that may not be in your town. If that pharmacist refuse to fill you perscription then you have to go to the pharmacy which maybe a huge distance away. Pharmacists is not a "fashionable" job anymore. Less people are becoming them, the churches with money have seized on this and there has been a influx of Pharmacists who have had their degrees bought and paid for by scholarships through these churches. This has been going on for a number of years.

Oh BTW this is not just effecting women. The male birth control bill has been held up several times by religious groups opposed to Birth control.

Where does it stop?

A gay person tries to get treatment for HIV? Nope God has judged you for your sin and I am not morally obligated to give you your perscription.

How about a pagan? Nope religious freedom again god wants you to suffer.

<quote>I have never heard of such a thing.</quote>

I guess you don't read the news much.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-11-08-druggists-pill_x.htm

http://www.americablog.com/2005/10/target-refuses-to-fill-womans.html

Here is an article that shows where it has been cemented into law the right to refuse.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0426/p11s01-usju.html

Now this is just some examples. There have been many many more. Pharmacies are not exactly boom business if you need a perscription and do not live in a city you may have to travel out of your way to get said perscription. There are now areas of the country where several pharmacies are not filling perscriptions based on "religious objections". As much as you want to play blind to it. This is one of the Catholic church pet issues to make sure legislation is in place to allow pharmacists to refuse on "moral" grounds and to also block any restriction on that right. Companies that have adopted rules to prevent this sort of thing have been met with massive protests and lawsuits.

<quote>What religion is this?</quote>

The Vatican started it and other Christian Groups have jumped on.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

<quote>IF someone has to drive that far to get a prescription filled it is because they live that far away from a pharmacy.</quote>

If you live in a rural area there may only be one pharmacy and that may not be in your town. If that pharmacist refuse to fill you perscription then you have to go to the pharmacy which maybe a huge distance away. Pharmacists is not a "fashionable" job anymore. Less people are becoming them, the churches with money have seized on this and there has been a influx of Pharmacists who have had their degrees bought and paid for by scholarships through these churches. This has been going on for a number of years.

Oh BTW this is not just effecting women. The male birth control bill has been held up several times by religious groups opposed to Birth control.

Where does it stop?

Samdj

I think I have worded it wrong.

The priest that was driven out was driven out by the Church. He committed NO crime except a church one. Yet he was subjected to worse treatment then those who molested children or covered up for the molesters. His "crime" he had realtions with woman he fell in love with. Has sense married her after being defrocked.


There is no news to look up as there was no crime involved.

Some more BC refusal stories

http://media.www.michigandaily.com/media/storage/paper851/news/2007/07/16/Viewpoints/The-Abcs.Of.Family.Planning-2923818.shtml

http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/488123,CST-NWS-planb29.article

Article on Pharmacists shortage

http://www.afpenet.org/news_facts_at_a_glance.htm

BD,

Bear in mind that most of these apologists are just regurgitating the misinformation and lies that have been told to them. They trust their sources because they think that they are "pure" and "godly". They fail to see that, like everyone else, their sources have an agenda and will use any means necessary to pursue it.

This is one of my grudges with those of "blind faith". They are susceptible to manipulation because of their blind trust. They assume that they are part of "God's plan", not man's. Unfortunately, this is exactly what brought us such wonderful events as the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Witch Trials, the Holocaust, and more; man's refusal to question authority. God (and those who claim to speak for him) being the highest authority...

AG

Aye I know this. It just bothers me that they close their eyes so readily.

Ae/Bd

[quote]This is one of my grudges with those of "blind faith". They are susceptible to manipulation because of their blind trust.[/quote]

We are all suceptible - for example, we are just
coming out of the close of the BRE-X scam in North America that sucked up $ billions. The chief geologist was aquitted after having pocketed $84 mm in insider trading profits. The major losers were the most sophisticated & respected institutional investors in NA.

But theirs was not 'blind faith' it was reasoned 'misjudgement'. They sure could have used your 'voice of reason' on that one.

AE/BD,

Just had a posting held again... they seem not to be releasing mine...even after review.

re: 'blind faith'

What is the difference between mistaken blind faith and erroneously reasoned decision-making? Nothing... they're both wrong.

An example from the stock markets.
North America's biggest mining scam was just wound up... with Bree-x's (do you remember that name? The penny stock that rose to $200) head geoligist being aquitted on a $84 mm insider trading profit... a charge that would have been convicted in the US because of tougher governace regulations. A not-guilty in Canada would have been a prison term in the US... go figure. ps... Felderhoff, the geologist di not have to attend his trial... he (and his 84m have taken up residence in Bali.)

The biggest & best minds in the 'running money' biz all got duped on that. The biggest victims...the BIG institutions... the creme-de-la-creme.... they got taken royally by a couple of 'hicks' with ketchup on their ties.

Even the best can get duped...not just those victimized by institutional 'blind faith'.

Whatever is the nature of our blind spots... let's not misconclude that they are the exclusive domain of the religious 'sheep'.

Let he who has not stoned cast he first sin.

Bad analogy Denovo.

The Christians in question are oppressing others based on their personal breed of morality. That was the one of the things our founding fathers sought to prevent here, not legislate it...

My sins are my own and no one has died for them. No one should dare to to take them from me and tell me I am not able to handle them. I committed them and thus I must responsible for them.

If one dies for your sins they have done you a disservice by taking without your permission your burden which was placed on your back to make you stronger.

Ae,
[quote]The Christians in question are oppressing others based on their personal breed of morality. That was the one of the things our founding fathers sought to prevent here, not legislate it...[/quote]

Oh, really?

Was it not the circumstance that a our same est eemed 'founding fathers' of this country had just finished oppressing the rights of the true landowners of this continent. Their 'morality was 'its ok to steal from the indians... they're no better than the mould that forms on cheese... just whack it off and proceed as planned.