Though it should be noted I am not affiliated with this group directly. I am part of independent group that is still in initial stages of forming. My nest has about a dozen members currently and is working towards securing property so that we have a place to come together.
"It is happening now the Cnn article is talking about a Christian family that now has 17 children. And they are not the only family pulling this."
You can count the number of families like this, the majority is not like this family...get real, that is why they made the news...becuase it is not the norm.
"As for your no sex. Again this pushing your morals down other throats."
It has nothing to do with morals as it does with being responsible for ones actions and no one seems to care anymore for that little life that could be affected by those irresponsible actions. Very few today that are having sex do it for nothing more than the "fun of it". It is a very special union between a man and a woman...it has been reduced to the same as doing a sh*ot of li-quor if you do it with every person you meet, you are no better than an animal. Let me rephrase that, even animals have sex to mate and that is when they are in season. Morals are defined as doing the right thing. Being irresponsible is not doing the right thing. Especially when other's lives can be affected by your actions. That is being selfish and self-centered.
"If one wants to see where this country is heading one only has to watch what London become in the movie V for Vendetta. That is what will happen if conservative religious types take control."
You live in a fantasy world...this comment is unbelievable, even for you.
[quote]And that's the thing. If the path works ... take it. Don't worry about the other guy's path. Each is right... for each of you.[/quote]
Good statement, but others do not believe this. Only their path is the way. That is why they recruit their churches and websites on this forum, to convert you. One does not need to do this, it is so easily accessible by internet...you can look-up basically everything. No need to push one's website. When people ask what are your beliefs, they are not asking what is posted on a website (they can get this themselves), they are asking you personally. Not everyone follows everything. They are trying to find out about you as a person.
"My nest has about a dozen members currently and is working towards securing property so that we have a place to come together."
"You can count the number of families like this, the majority is not like this family...get real, that is why they made the news...becuase it is not the norm."
It doesn't have to be the Norm as I said a dozen families pulling this is huge problem. That multiples and speeds up the numbers and time frame exponentially.
As for sex you and I have huge difference on what we consider moral for sex and I see what you advocating as ignorant and dark ageish.
Oh btw not all animals have sex just when in season, dolphins, elephants, simians, *some* canines and others do it for other reasons as well.
As for citing the movie as where we are going. You really need to stop being so quick to judge as fantasy. You have shown several times now you are unaware of what is going on. People Like Bill Donahue and others who are influencing the government are trying to push and having success at pushing this country into a facisit theocracy. That is what I was comparing to the movie. If they keep going we are 30-50 years away at most. As little as 10 in the worse case.
The point is if religious types would stop interfering with people's lives we have the means to effectively control our breeding.
As for Nest. I posted an informative link that covers a great many things. But a nest is a very close group, similar to a family in my faith.
Here is proof something really bad is about to happen. The hard line conservatives are setting things up to disrupt the process of Democratic elections. 2008 elections may not happen or have any chance of coming out against the Conservatives.
This is the problem I have with blind faith. It litterally has made them blind to what is going on in the world at large and allowing those that pervert religion to further gain power. The readily follow and listen to what they are saying without looking into the motivations for them saying it. Even sadder is some cease to have original thought, the parrot things that these people "publish" without understanding what it is they are saying.
The brainwashing starts young extremely young. When they are at there most vulnerable. We have laws that prevent this from being allowed but religion gets an exception. A majority of people really have now chance to make a choice they are force fed religion from birth, taught not to question and grow up to teach their children that.
Yes bd I was brain washed. I excepted Catholicism on my own without my parents influence. Of course when I was a baby the promise made for me by my parrents, but during confirmation, I took it into my hands to see that Catholicism was right for me. It was up to me to see if I wanted to continue that promise. So no I was not brain washed. Stop saying things that you don't know, and stop bashing Christianity.
Religious Brainwashing is a cultural institution and has been for a very very long time.
I wonder how your parents would take it if you told them you where going to another religions service.
One thing my faith does, is we do not even start offical training until 13 and one can not move to commitment until the age of majority of their country.
You where looking for ammo to bash myself and my faith. See I am going to say go for it. My faith can take it. I am not sure about your based on the responses from you and others.
Now here is a bit more venomous piece by Richard Dawkins. Now before you start scream he does say "Belief in God doesn't have to be a bad thing..."
http://thewaronfaith.com/aq_richarddawkins.htm
Religion should be just that religion. But I have a problem when a religion becomes something other then that. When it seeks to control all the people weather they are of its faith or not. That is what organized religion and Christianity have become. One only had to look at the Republican debates today to see that is boiling underneath.
OH and SBD I was brought up by family who are Roman Catholics. My mother has broken away but I know first hand the attempts at brainwashing by the church. Unless you can get outside and observe often you cannot see the Brain washing.
It is ecologically, psychologically, spiritually and politically indefensible to bring unwanted children into the world. We are pro-life, regarding the quality of life for all being to be of utmost importance. The CAW unconditionally supports the right of every woman to make her own decisions regarding her desire and ability to bear and responsibly raise a child. We declare and defend a woman's right to safe, effective, affordable and acceptable methods of fertility regulation of her choice, including a timely abortion if and when she should deem it necessary. We support the right of all women to access to appropriate health-care services that will enable them to safely through pregnancy with the best chance of bearing and raising healthy children. We work for the right so women to maintain and expand their own reproductive options.
[quote]As for citing the movie as where we are going. You really need to stop being so quick to judge as fantasy. You have shown several times now you are unaware of what is going on. People Like Bill Donahue and others who are influencing the government are trying to push and having success at pushing this country into a facisit theocracy. That is what I was comparing to the movie. If they keep going we are 30-50 years away at most. As little as 10 in the worse case.[/quote]
In 2000+ years, things have not changed much...there is always someone who thinks they can save the world. Wars are created because of selfishness, wealth, greed, and ego.
I know enough and do believe that one can do more with actions than sitting behind a paper or computer reading articles all day and looking for things to be upset about.
And what should we care if someone wants to have 2 children or 17? If they take care of them and support them, it is not my business. Next thing you know you will be condemning someone for having only one child because the parents have too much control over them...BD, when does it stop? How about the woman who has 10 children, all with different fathers (most of them unknown)and is on welfare? Always out, leaving the kids to fend for themselves? Why don't you comment on those?
The problem seems that too many people are so worried about the well-being of others, playing the crusader, that they loose site of the problem and they loose site of what is really important. They try to help but for their own reasons and not specifically those that are involved. They also fail to see that their actions towards fixing problems may not be the best action or actions of those that the problems directly affect. Everyone has a choice...no one is truly made to follow one religion or another, although there are those that are forced and threatened by being disowned or death, but that is usually in other countries, and it still involves a choice.
I think you have this vision that you are "V"...figh-ting for vengeance, but for what? For your own selfish needs and desires. Do you ever asked the people affected by this if they want or need your help? You seem to be a rebel with a cause...but it is your own. You like to argue and fight, just to do it. Instead of peace, you like to bring disorder and chaos. Figh-ting battles that are not yours to fig-ht. And, if there was nothing to argue about you would create something. People who are truly at peace with themselves do not look for conflict and do not waste energy on negative things. You do focus a lot on the negative side of life. Is the black part of BD, your soul? Dark and cloudy? You mention your mother, but not your Father...do you dislike him? I am just curious, because the relationship with our family is important - all members - and it affects who we are.
Many have deep secrets, regrets and hurts that cause them to lash out in a ven-geful manor. Seekers of the truth, but what is the truth really. It it everyone's truth or only theirs? They feel they must defend the weak...but many that we think are weak are not, they just choose to handle problems differently - with less drama.
Do you have any christians in your group? The nest or pod or whatever it is that you are creating is just a clique of people who see things your way. It is the same as bible study, AA and the like...they are groups that support each other who have things in common. Nothing wrong with any of them...I'm just saying that there is no diversity. We tend to cling to those that agree with us. That doesn't help us move forward, it is just another means of separating ourselves.
It's more than being christian and non-christian...it's "are you for us or against us", instead of "lets work together to see if we can find a happy medium." That means give and take on both parts. But many just believe that if you don't feel the same way they do, or change who you are to be like they are, that you are wrong. Tunnel vision and with that attitude there is no change.
I have been doing some thinking and reflecting these past few days on what has been happening in my life. And, I see why most of the things that happened happened. I can't change any of it, just prepare myself better.
[quote]It is ecologically, psychologically, spiritually and politically indefensible to bring unwanted children into the world. We are pro-life, regarding the quality of life for all being to be of utmost importance. The CAW unconditionally supports the right of every woman to make her own decisions regarding her desire and ability to bear and responsibly raise a child. We declare and defend a woman's right to safe, effective, affordable and acceptable methods of fertility regulation of her choice, including a timely abortion if and when she should deem it necessary. We support the right of all women to access to appropriate health-care services that will enable them to safely through pregnancy with the best chance of bearing and raising healthy children. We work for the right so women to maintain and expand their own reproductive options.[/quote]
<qoute>And what should we care if someone wants to have 2 children or 17?</quote>
I think the numbers I posted earlier show how selfish and irresponsible that type of breeding is.
I have stated before I am for responsible breeding and I do not feel welfare is teaching that. It pays people for the more children they have.
"Everyone has a choice...no one is truly made to follow one religion or another, although there are those that are forced and threatened by being disowned or death, but that is usually in other countries, and it still involves a choice."
It is beginning to happen here. People are being threatened for not following what others feel is the right religion.
"People who are truly at peace with themselves do not look for conflict and do not waste energy on negative things."
In you opinion maybe. Despite your opinion I am rather happy. This here is exercise it is sparing. It is sharpening my skills and such. I currently have time on my hands and this is keeping me from getting rusty.
Ahhhh my father. No I do not talk to him. Why? because he is dishonorable. He was truly selfish and lied. It is his choice weather he wants to talk to me or not. He knows where I am. But he has to admit to what he has done and take responsibility for it.
"Many have deep secrets, regrets and hurts that cause them to lash out in a ven-geful manor. Seekers of the truth, but what is the truth really. It it everyone's truth or only theirs? They feel they must defend the weak...but many that we think are weak are not, they just choose to handle problems differently - with less drama."
I fight and defend myself. If other choose to join in our are inspired by it it is their choice. I am not interested in sheep.
"Do you have any christians in your group?"
Yes as a matter of fact :> But they have moved beyond the need for a "chruch" and sought Jesus on their own. But yes we have Christians, a few agnostics, pagans of all flavors, and would welcome any faith.
So the rest of the statement is moot.
"It's more than being christian and non-christian...it's "are you for us or against us", instead of "lets work together to see if we can find a happy medium." That means give and take on both parts. But many just believe that if you don't feel the same way they do, or change who you are to be like they are, that you are wrong. Tunnel vision and with that attitude there is no change."
I am pleased you are learning. If that statement was true I could totaly go into retirement. Except for one thing one does not have to compromise their faith in order to work together. I fight anyone who seeks to tell me my faith is wrong or force their faith on me. I value personal responsibility and freedom.
"I have been doing some thinking and reflecting these past few days on what has been happening in my life. And, I see why most of the things that happened happened. I can't change any of it, just prepare myself better."
BTW There is a difference between individual faith and organized religion. Just so that is clear. And no individual should tell another what to believe or force them to follow their faith or morals.
Now before yah jump and say people need to follow the same morals or a person could do something abhorent against another.
No because if say you went and murdered someone for example you are imposing your moral on them.
Now to tie this back to the tomb.
The Organized Christian religions have sought to change history to support their religion including misrepresenting who Jesus was. They further seek to impose their religion through legislation on every nation and people on Earth. The Muslims are sadly no different in this sense.
Polytheism does not discount the Muslim, Jewish or Christian god. It simply says that there are more then one, different but equal. My religion goes one step forward and declares the divinity of everyone and takes on itself to act in a responsible and appropriate manner towards themselves and others. For how can one God tell another God how they should live?
This is what I fight against. I fight against any other religion that tries and tell me how I should live. Weather this be at the point of a sword or through the stroke of a pen into law.
On my self I have texts for a various religions. The Q'uran, The Bible, The book of Mormon, Buddhist texts, native American and many many many others. The have all given me bits of light that I have bundled into my own. But not one of them have the whole truth. But there are those who feel it does and nothing is wrong with that. But where they cross the line is telling other they must believe their truth.
[quote]I am pleased you are learning. If that statement was true I could totaly go into retirement. Except for one thing one does not have to compromise their faith in order to work together. I fight anyone who seeks to tell me my faith is wrong or force their faith on me. I value personal responsibility and freedom.[/quote]
And vice versa. Why is it okay for you to cast stones at christians, but not for them to throw them back at you? You tend to contradict yourself my good man. Do they not have the same right to defend their beliefs, regardless whether you agree or not, as you do yours? It is their right, too.
As far as the Chinese Government and Buddhist...I'm not Buddhist, so I will let them fight their own battles if they do not agree with their Government. We don't need to fight anyone else's battles.
Throw all the stones you want. I will defend myself.
THAT IS THE POINT OF DEBATE
But as has been shown today people you ally yourself with can't handle the debate and consider it all bashing and whine to Discovery to shut down the boards.
That is what I am saying is wrong. By trying to force control of what other people say and are allowed to discuss and in turn allowed to believe.
If you can't see the wrongness in what is going on you are frankly very blind to the world.
I'm not casting any stones...you cannot learn when passion turns to obsession. There is a difference. The MOD is just saying that there are other forums that support our varying points of view and since the subject is long gone and forgotten...time to move on.
I excepted Catholicism on my own without my parents influence. Of course when I was a baby the promise made for me by my parrents, but during confirmation, I took it into my hands to see that Catholicism was right for me. It was up to me to see if I wanted to continue that promise. So no I was not brain washed. Stop saying things that you don't know, and stop bashing Christianity.