Galleywest. I appreciate your input and find it interesting. Believe it or not, I get my information from people. I ask questions and just let people talk to me about what they think or believe. I don't try to change thier minds or point them in a direction that suits me. Just as when you are at a sight digging, the dead can't talk as we do, so you have to listen in a different way to hear their story. My own experiences have not tarnished my observations, I don't actually mention them when talking with other people. What I do is allow people to talk and believe me, most people want to talk to me about their lives. I agreed with most of your statement but I really found it interesting that you would mention Endogamy as a way to learn cultural processes.

Busymommy. I know what you are experiencing especially with the current op tempo. I hope that you will stay faithful to your husband if he has to leave, not saying that won't or would ever consider such an act. Also I hope that your faith stays with you and your group during deployments and I hope that the chain of command recognizes your efforts and all of you get some recognition. For those folks that don't have to sacrifice time away, they don't understand the pressures of a serviceman and his or her family. I hope this rattles a few cages, but I have to say it. I purchased a sticker for my wifes minivan right before my last deployment that reads; " An Army wife, the toughest job in the military"! GOD bless you ladies for standing strong and not doing things that destroy a family. Oh yeah, if one of the ladies husbands decide to fall to temptation, I hope the whole lot of you meet him on the runway and teach him a lesson that he will never forget. Hats off to all soldiers, sailors, marines and airman, but most of all to their family who supports them for months on end with nothing but email, bad pay, and the occasional phone call.

JLD. I would like to address the following statement.
Ah, socialital preceptions are not always what they're cracked up to be. Women have been "preceived" as the weaker sex and not capable of intelligence, when in fact, the men didn't want the competition. Women were thought of as chattel, the same as slaves, because men couldn't handle the fact that they were their equal. So, the preceiption that it is solely the "role" of the female alone is merely that...a preception built in mems' minds so that they don't have to deal with the reality of equality. However, as more and more women realize that they no longer have to hide their intelligence because of the male ego, they educate their sons that women are their equal. BTW, Girls play sports too....AND last I looked the ONLY jobs in the miltary they're barred from is the Army Rangers, the Navy Seals and subs (and that's not far from falling), and the Green Berets. Even the old edic of no females on the front line has gone by the wayside because there is NO front line anymore It's ALL front line. And as for religion, each is having to come to terms with the fact that you can't always dictate 1st Century social norms in a 21st Century reality. Doesn't work and never will.
I have spent a lot of time in the military as I stated before and judging by your replys, you have not. Before you ever make the mistake to think that women are exact equals with men would be a biased statement. I have had the priviledge of serving with some of the best female soldiers that this country has to offer, had my life saved by a female, pround to call her my friend. But before we allow women to serve on the front lines in a direct combat arms role, we have to change the bases for male DNA. Most men that I know all say the same thing, it is not the fact that a female cannot do the basic physical requirements to pass the Physical Fitness Tests or pass the academics. It is the basic instinct for the male species to protect the female. BUT, before you retort with a snide remark, well then walk yourself down to the nearest recruiter, tell them that you want a combat arms Military Occupational Skill (MOS) and sign the paperwork. You will find that the men will automatically try to help the female soldiers before they help the other men. Now as far as a woman serving in the Special Operations Command. I can tell you that there are again woman that could do the job. But again due to the fact that were physically different prevents woman from serving in the Special Operations Command. Different you say, yes freaking different, look in the mirror, different. Oh you don't get it yet, let me expound on this for you. Female soldiers cannot go without a shower for more than 3 days (by regulation) without receiving a manditory shower and other personal hygeine time, the male soldiers have 10 days. I can tell you that they cannot go much beyond this without developing female problems, they can but at a cost to everyone (think yeast). I have been with women in a combat zone where person hygeine supplies were not available for about 10 days. Well without being disgusting, it was quite noticable from the smell that we had women in our camp that had personal issues that they needed medical attention to correct. Once we were able to resupply, 100% of the female soldiers were evacuated via helicopter to the nearest medical facility for treatment. It took 17 days for the last female to return to our unit.
By the way, a standard 3 day combat pack weighs in around 95-115 lbs depending on your role within the squad. I would say that there are not to many woman that want to hump this thing around for 3 days in the desert heat or pouring rain without a shower or change of clothes.
Now I realize that this will ruffle you feathers and I hope it does. Because it is liberal thinking of lawyers that costs lives in a combat environment just as much as the bad guys. Why in the world would the legal idiots make rules in war that prevent me from shooting at a Temple if it is full of arms and the bad guys are running around the outside waving it in my face?
And btw, considering now with on-line access to universities, you can still be a SAHM AND get your education as well. Considering you are a miltiary family, there would undoubtably be a myrid of financial aid open to you to do so. So, you can do both- be a sahm AND get your education
My wife works full time for the director of MWR on our post and goes to school at the university of Phoenix. Even though I support her in her quest to get a higher education, it impacts our kids significantly. There have been numerous times that they have to miss out on something or my wife has school work and just can't miss posting deadlines or online chats. So recitals, choir, musicals get to be recorded on video and mom watches them later. So though it gives her the option of having a full time job, the family still looses in the long run. I am going to post this now and go over to my wonderful wife whom has fallen asleep doing her school work and get her to bed. I am not trying to win anyone over to my side, but the facts are the facts, call up any of the big name brand universities, they have spent milllions on studying all of this.

quote:

Originally posted by MrSkins26:
My wife works full time for the director of MWR on our post and goes to school at the university of Phoenix. Even though I support her in her quest to get a higher education, it impacts our kids significantly. There have been numerous times that they have to miss out on something or my wife has school work and just can't miss posting deadlines or online chats. So recitals, choir, musicals get to be recorded on video and mom watches them later. So though it gives her the option of having a full time job, the family still looses in the long run. I am going to post this now and go over to my wonderful wife whom has fallen asleep doing her school work and get her to bed. I am not trying to win anyone over to my side, but the facts are the facts, call up any of the big name brand universities, they have spent milllions on studying all of this.

Ok, how is it that the kids have missed out on something if your wife has schoolwork to do during the evenings? Shouldn't YOU have attended to them to give her the free time she needs to do her schoolwork? And how is it that by expanding one's education puts the family at an imposition, particularly if 2 parents are there? And how would it be any different if the table was turned and it was YOU in her shoes?

It's absolutely WONDERFUL that your wife is getting her degree. Please relay my good wishes as well as my congratulations to her. You should be absolutely proud of her and so should your children. By doing what she's doing, it clearly shows your children that education is vital and something that can never EVER be taken from you. When she graduates, all of you should give her a party and I sincerely mean that.

And for what it's worth, my hubby took our daughter out many a time so that I could study in peace and even told me to go get a hotel room the weekend of 1 big 2-day exam. Best thing I EVER did, too. He had absolutely no problem with taking care of things while I went back to school after another degree. In fact, he started in when she was 10 days old and I had to go back to a Criminal Law class I was taking. We've always supported each other in making ourselves the best that we can be and if that meant 1 had to fill in for the other, then that's exactly what it meant. Last I looked, that's the way it's supposed to be.

Kudos to your wife and I hope she gets all As!

JLD:
I think you are missing the point of what religion is all about. Christians believe that the ONLY path to Heaven is through Jesus Christ. Every religion believes that they are the one true way. If all paths lead to the top of the mountain, why bother?
You are correct to say that this is best left to another discussion. Let's just agree to disagree.

quote:

Originally posted by busymommy:
JLD:
I think you are missing the point of what religion is all about. Christians believe that the ONLY path to Heaven is through Jesus Christ. Every religion believes that they are the one true way. If all paths lead to the top of the mountain, why bother?
You are correct to say that this is best left to another discussion. Let's just agree to disagree.

Nope, not missing the point at all. Been a Presybertian for all 53 years of my life, in fact, with a Catholic husband and daughter. And the one thing I learned a LONG time ago in taking several religion courses as an undergrad, particularly those that dealt with the major religions of the world, was how very much they ALL have their basis in the same thing, and how they all believe in God. While 1 path may be for 1 person, it may not be right for another, but yet it is not up to #2 to tell #1 that #2's path is the only way. Ironically, VERY much like the discussion as to whether a SAHM is better than a WOHM. In reality, they're BOTH the same.

It's called tolerance of ALL religions, regardless of what they are. Perhaps if it were practiced more, by ALL concerned, we might be ALL better off.

But as stated, that's best left for another board :-D

You are insane! I gave up my job as a chemist to stay at home with my son who is now 14 months old. Staying home is great, but there are some downsides to him. First off, he doesn't have any interaction with other children his age which he would have if he went to day care. Second, he is super attached to me which is a bad thing. We can't even drop him off at the nursery at church without him having a meltdown because he's so used to being with me all the time. Now I'm starting to get depressed because I have nothing of my own. So I've made the decision to go back to work. I'm only going part time, not because we need the money, but because I think it would be good for both my son and myself. And if you think that threatening your wife with divorce is going to stop her, you're wrong. All you doing is driving her to want to do it more and the people who are going to get hurt the most are your kids. Maybe she should leave you sorry butt because it soulnds like you definately don't deserve her. And I bet she would be better off without you.

Ok, how is it that the kids have missed out on something if your wife has schoolwork to do during the evenings? Shouldn't YOU have attended to them to give her the free time she needs to do her schoolwork? And how is it that by expanding one's education puts the family at an imposition, particularly if 2 parents are there? And how would it be any different if the table was turned and it was YOU in her shoes?

This is what I love about people that have opinions without having the facts. You have appealed to everyone stating that you are a legal person so again I have to ASSUME that you have a higher education, however I hope you don't use the same tactics in a courtroom. If you have read anything that I have posted you might have realized that I am not at home all of the time because I have a career that takes me on the road defending your freedoms. I have actually postponed my masters degree to allow my wife the opportunity to get her education because one of us would be able to watch the kids. Now, these are the facts so you have them. My wife has missed out on plenty and just because though she could have went she chose schooling over the kids activities. Of course she is the only woman on the planet that does this!!!

Regardless of the reasons that one may have or methods to gain her independence or whatever terminology you might want to insert at this point. To place your career or higher education in front of your duties and obligations as a parent for whatever reason is just plain selfish. Let us not think of family bonding in these instances, or the fact that in almost all instances, you may hurt your childs feelings. Did it ever occur to anyone that this child didn't ask to be here, nor did they ask to be in situation where a parent would rather do something else than spend time with them because the parent has something that they want to do. One of the reasons that our children grow up with bad habits is because we teach them bad habits. Now is the fact that I cook, clean, help with homework, make the lunches and try to find family activies for everyone a crime? I will bet that you have had instances JLD when your child ran in to share something with you and it really felt more like; why is she/he bothering me, can't they see that I am busy! Of course I am sure that you would never admit to that anyway. Imagine that the family is sitting around playing a board game and you are sitting in another room to busy to join in, how do you think that the kids feel, oh that's right, the nine year old completely understands that you are to busy to spend time with them. I find myself disgusted with self centered people that regardless of the situation, they are never wrong, they never make mistakes. One day when your sitting around and you with your adult child, ask them to be honest about the things they did you never knew about. Ask them to be honest about how your actions hurt them as a child because you were too busy with the career and the education.

Finally, if the table was turned? Well I have, it was fun, and yes, it was hard work. But the facts are, I never tried to get anywhere in life while sacrificing any time with my children or wife.

quote:

Originally posted by MrSkins26:

Finally, a little more about me. I work in an office and I am responsible for hundreds of millions of dollars worth of equipment and tens of thousands of personnel. So I have to wear at a minimum, shirt and tie but most of the time, suits are required. I don't shop for my clothes in a way that most people do. I have my teenage daughters pick out what they like, seeing that they have a much better taste in clothes than I do. I never argue with my daughters as they choose my clothes, and yes I shop at Penny's, I can't see spending lots of money on clothes. When I get home, I climb out of the fancy clothes and grab the first pair of jeans I can find, clean or dirty, it just doesn't matter to me. I hate some of the things that my wife does however I love her, so I accept her mannerisms as something special and not as an attack on me or a lack of consideration or respect, it is just her.

quote:

Originally posted by MrSkins26:
This is what I love about people that have opinions without having the facts. You have appealed to everyone stating that you are a legal person so again I have to ASSUME that you have a higher education, however I hope you don't use the same tactics in a courtroom. If you have read anything that I have posted you might have realized that I am not at home all of the time because I have a career that takes me on the road defending your freedoms. I have actually postponed my masters degree to allow my wife the opportunity to get her education because one of us would be able to watch the kids. Now, these are the facts so you have them. My wife has missed out on plenty and just because though she could have went she chose schooling over the kids activities. Of course she is the only woman on the planet that does this!!!


Finally, if the table was turned? Well I have, it was fun, and yes, it was hard work. But the facts are, I never tried to get anywhere in life while sacrificing any time with my children or wife.

Ok, first off. You seem to have a problem dealing with women, imho. Especially when you get called on the carpet over your own words (see above).

Second - obviously you are former military (retired) or reserve at the max (kudos to you), but now work at a civilian job (you indicated above that you wear a shirt/tie at min. and suit at max, as well as work in an office, not that soldiers don't work in offices, they do, but active ones would be in uniform, not suit/tie.)

At no time did you indicate, in your own posts and your own words, that you were away from home...

Yes, I am a legal profession with advanced degrees. Never said I was an attorney...that would be UPL.

Now, as for education - it is EXTREMELY important, in this day and time, for children to see that parents to take it seriously. We preach to our children that it is necessary. However, if we can't "walk the walk and talk the talk", we are hypocrites. Both my husband and I have shown our daughter that education is the key to life itself. One should NEVER EVER stop learning, for if you do, you're 6 feet under.

My mother taught HS for 43 years. She was the principle breadwinner for a VERY long time, due to the area of the country I'm from. Both she and my father taught me that no matter what you do in life, an education is the one thing that can NEVER be taken from you. And as my grandfather told me, "book learning is an absolute, but you need horse sense as well. One without the other is useless." I don't necesarily shop at Pennys, but I do shop Target (hate wally world).

Now, I really don't know what your problem is here. Be PROUD of the fact that your wife wants to better herself and by doing that, becomes a better person and a better parent.

As for my own daughter, she's 18 and getting ready to go off to college. I went back classes when she was 10 days old and went back to work when she was 6 months old. Am I a "bad mother" because I absolutely refuse to see that my life is 24/7/365 as simply mom? No. Not in the least. We've had our battles, just as any normal family has. However, she has seen the absolute value of higher education and the absolute necessity of it. We both have taught her that by "walking the walk and talking the talk." Did it take time from her? Nope, because someone was always there. BTW, I've taken her to class when she was a baby, too. And hubby kept her when I had to go without her. That's the way it is, and that's the way it should be.

It's called co-parenting and it's called LIFE. So, as I said, I don't know what your problem is, m'dear, but you've got a long way to go to understand things.

Kudos to your wife!

edited and corrected

quote:

Originally posted by MrSkins26:

Finally, a little more about me. I work in an office and I am responsible for hundreds of millions of dollars worth of equipment and tens of thousands of personnel. So I have to wear at a minimum, shirt and tie but most of the time, suits are required. I don't shop for my clothes in a way that most people do. I have my teenage daughters pick out what they like, seeing that they have a much better taste in clothes than I do. I never argue with my daughters as they choose my clothes, and yes I shop at Penny's, I can't see spending lots of money on clothes. When I get home, I climb out of the fancy clothes and grab the first pair of jeans I can find, clean or dirty, it just doesn't matter to me. I hate some of the things that my wife does however I love her, so I accept her mannerisms as something special and not as an attack on me or a lack of consideration or respect, it is just her.

quote:

Originally posted by MrSkins26:
This is what I love about people that have opinions without having the facts. You have appealed to everyone stating that you are a legal person so again I have to ASSUME that you have a higher education, however I hope you don't use the same tactics in a courtroom. If you have read anything that I have posted you might have realized that I am not at home all of the time because I have a career that takes me on the road defending your freedoms. I have actually postponed my masters degree to allow my wife the opportunity to get her education because one of us would be able to watch the kids. Now, these are the facts so you have them. My wife has missed out on plenty and just because though she could have went she chose schooling over the kids activities. Of course she is the only woman on the planet that does this!!!


Finally, if the table was turned? Well I have, it was fun, and yes, it was hard work. But the facts are, I never tried to get anywhere in life while sacrificing any time with my children or wife.

Ok, first off. You seem to have a problem dealing with women, imho. Especially when you get called on the carpet over your own words (see above).

Second - you indicated that you are former military (retired) but now work at a civilian job (you indicated above that you wear a shirt/tie at min. and suit at max, as well as work in an office, not that soldiers don't work in offices, they do, but active ones would be in uniform, not suit/tie.)

You indicated that you had deployed 5 times in 8 years. BTW, I have 2 nephews deployed as we speak.


Yes, I am a legal professional with advanced degrees. Never said I was an attorney...that would be UPL. I am, in fact, a paralegal with a Criminal Law/Criminal Procedures speciality, now working in Civil Litigation.

Now, as for education - it is EXTREMELY important, in this day and time, for children to see that parents to take it seriously. We preach to our children that it is necessary. However, if we can't "walk the walk and talk the talk", we are hypocrites. Both my husband and I have shown our daughter that education is the key to life itself. One should NEVER EVER stop learning, for if you do, you're 6 feet under.

My mother taught HS for 43 years. She was the principle breadwinner for a VERY long time, due to the area of the country I'm from. Both she and my father taught me that no matter what you do in life, an education is the one thing that can NEVER be taken from you. And as my grandfather told me, "book learning is an absolute, but you need horse sense as well. One without the other is useless." I don't necesarily shop at Pennys, but I do shop Target (hate wally world).

Now, I really don't know what your problem is here. Be VERY PROUD of the fact that your wife wants to better herself and by doing that, becomes a better person and a better parent.

As for my own daughter, she's 18 and getting ready to go off to college. I went back classes when she was 10 days old and went back to work when she was 6 months old. Am I a "bad mother" because I absolutely refuse to see that my life is 24/7/365 as simply mom? No. Not in the least. We've had our battles, just as any normal family has. However, she has seen the absolute value of higher education and the absolute necessity of it. We both have taught her that by "walking the walk and talking the talk." Did it take time from her? Nope, because someone was always there. Was it necessary that I always be the one? No, not in the least. Hubby's more than capable of handling things on his own. Did she suffer because I wasn't there and he was, for maybe 1-2 hr an evening? Nope, not at all. He was with her, so what's the big deal?

That's the way it is, and that's the way it should be. It's called co-parenting and it's called LIFE. So, as I said, I don't know what your problem is, m'dear, but you've got a long way to go to understand things.

I fully understand the 5 deployments have had a strain on your family. But since your wife went it alone while you were over, it's time NOW for her. So be proud of her and her accomplishments instead of being resentful. You had to put your education plans on hold because of deployment. That obstacle is no longer in the way. BOTH of you should go for it.

Kudos to your wife, sir...and tell her to GO FOR IT![/QUOTE]