Dr. Levine, The debate over whether Jesus was a man or somehow divine is in my opinion jumping ahead of ourselves. I have seen no historical proof that Jesus ever existed at all. The Gospels date so many years after Jesus' supposed death that their authorship cannot be positively established and therefore are nothing more than hearsay. Is there any extra-biblical proof of Jesus' existence. (The alleged quote from Josephus has been thouroughly debunked.)
I am sure Jesus existed. But he existed as a man, and only a man. He made a movement. Possible a political movement. But he was a man. He died like a man. His body left this earth just like any other man or woman.
I do believe there was another power over and above this earth. Such as God, or a God. Maybe not the picture of the GOD as we Christians, or Roman Catholic Faith believe. But, I do believe there was a GOD. In some way this GOD, or a GOD, has mutatated and changed this Earth, or Univerise. Somehow, the whole creation of a Universe, Earth, other planets, eventually leading to the evolution of a Human Being has come from a God. It dosen't matter from WHO's God. But the entire creation came from a GOD. Some GOD had to be the first to allow bacteria to grow in waters, and mutate.
Yes, Jesus did exist, But Jesus was a man just as you and I. He started a political movement. Jesus, was only a man just as you and I. But Our GOD or GOD's are the one to create this world we live in.......
I do believe that Jesus walked the earth and preached his beliefs, but was just a man, like any other man. And I don't believe that there is any GOD, why does there have to be? It's quite obvious we evolved, the universe is millions of years old, and just because we can't yet explain where it all started, doesn't mean that a "GOD" started it all. Religions are cults, and extremely unneccessary.
If we evolved from the ape, which is still in existence, then where are all the other "steps" that led to our current position. I am not saying I don't think evolution is possible, I just wonder how the beginning "step" is still in existence, the end "step" is still in existence, but the middle "steps" are not.
I do believe Jesus was a man on this earth also like you and I,why should Jesus not be allowed to love or even have a child? Wouldn't that be considered the ultimate love on thisd earth? I do believe in Jesus and he is sacred but walked this earth as a human
My answer or opinion to evolution would be YEs we have evolved from where? So my answer always is who made the apes? Can you honestly believe everything went poof on it's own?IMO
YES I BELIEVE JESUS DID AND STILL DOES EXIST. JESUS STILL LIVES IN OUR HEARTS. NOTHING WILL MAKE ME STOP LOVING MY LORD. IF HE WAS MARRIED IT DOESN'T MATTER OR IF IT IS HIS BODY IT JUST SAYS OUR BODY DOESN'T GO TO HEAVEN OUR SPIRIT DOES. OUR BODIES IS JUST A HOUSE WE LIVE IN ON THIS EARTH. THIS WILL MAKE SOME PEOPLE REALLY BELIEVE THERE WAS A JESUS AND ONLY INCREASE THEIR BELIEF. MAY THE FORGIVE ALL OF YOU FOR TRYING TO DISTROY OUR LORD. I WILL PRAY FOR YOU ALL.
that is the DUMBEST think I have heard! Jesus died for you and me, and He loves you! So many ancient historians other than the Biblical Scribes, documented his existance, death and ressurection!
Yes, we all have evloved. Every living being has evolved. Dinasors, fish, four legged animals, have all evovled. Each and everything living thing on this earth has evovled. Or let me say mutated... The universe is millions of years old. But how did the uniiverse become to existance. Somewhere, or somehow, a star had to be born. Somewhere or somehow that first star had to create the universe. Where did it come from. Maybe, if it is that important to disregard anyone's GOD. Or any religion's GOD, or any nationality's beliefs. Then where is the answer to the question? What came first the chicken or the egg?
How can any of you doubt the significance of the probabilities which exist in this find? You are missing the overt message which is quite apparent if you just choose to listen. Yashua is the messiah. I am a Jew who acknowledges this fact. Yes, fact.
The Lord is revealing himself regularly these days and yet the masses will choose to fight and argue over whether or not his tomb exists! Daily we see signs that these are the End Days. Could mean tomorrow, or 100 years from now, but several of biblical prophesy is coming to fuition. Do you not see that the turmoil running rampant in the world today is grounded in the defense or destruction of Israel?
We were commanded to protect and support Israel. Of course some of you may say that I am crazy. That my beliefs are struck from a kind of blind faith or delusion. I say that it is you who are blind. These discoveries are just the beginning. God the father and his son Yeshua will continue to reveal themselves.
What must happen for you to acknowledge GOD and the Messiah? Must God "PROVE" himself to you? Who are you to make such a request? God's existence is not in the hands of man to prove. Yet he chooses out of love to embrace you regardless of your weaknesses and doubts.
There will come a time in the not so distant future when you will need to make a choice. If you try to rationalize based upon some intellectual argument or theory you will lose.
Remove your mask! I am a SoG. Some of you will understand. End this debate. It is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Non-believers will continue to be such until the final day. The are no atheists in taking cover in a foxhole.
Eliminate your pride! The most intelligent man on the face of the Earth will bend a knee to God on the final day.
Oh yeah, just out of pure morbid curiosity I must ask the following: Some of the most educated minds working within the world of Archeology and Theology are working on proving/disproving this find...what university did Yashua attend? Right...
All I know is this is a forum not for one person to warn people what will happen to them! You are not GOD & yes I BELIEVE IN JESUS and said he walked the Earth as a human being.This is about facts & knowledge not to warn people to beware or else, that is SO judgemental !Not opinion but very judgemental...
I asked for historical proof, not maniacal religious ramblings! One response claimed that many ancient scribes and historians outside of the Bible document not only Jesus' existence, but his death and resurrection as well. Would anyone care to list these sources? Are any of these sources contemporaries of Jesus?
Did he exisit? Wow, he is the most studied person in history. Nothing in history has been studied or recorded more evidence and time than the study of Jesus Christ the Son of God.
This is amazing, I came into this disscusion just me. All of a sudden there are some many to give the opinon. This is the only way to get the world going as one peace. We all need to speak our peace..
theparagon: As I have said before, I never disgrace anyone's belief. Is will and always believe a GOD. Or possible even GOD's do exist. To me it dosen't mean any one religion's or belief's are correct. It only means we all have one purpose on this earth. To be good hearted, not hurtfull, and helpful to our fellow man. We cannot never stand here and say only one religion is the correct one. As long as all of our believes and religions lead to the same thing. Be a good kind hearted person. Don't hurt another. Watch out for each other. Think about that: Many religion's in the world have this same teachings. Jewisim, Budisim, Taosim, Christian, Christianity, Roman Catholic, all over the world the religions have one major purpose.... To help each other and to love one another.......... Which in many countries these days all the people forget. It's not about what we believe. It's about how we can help one another. That's where our and all of our god's or jesus, or Jose, or what ever else we would like to name him. That's is where or faith lie's. In each other....
Look into the writings of the early church fathers who knew the apostles and Mary. They tesify to the person of Jesus. Then look at the many verified apparitions like Zeitun, Lourdes and Fatima to name just a few. The several uncorrupted bodies of saints and other miracles that science cannot explain. All believed to be contributed to Jesus as the son of God.
Otto, have you looked up the historian Flavius Josephus? Not a Christian Historian, but simply a Jewish historian who published his Antiquities (sp) in AD 93?
yes he may have existed, However he was a man born of man and died by the means of the time. The cross which most people hold and wear is nothing more but a device of torcher and death,like the electric chair of todays time.Jesus him self was no more than Mahat Magandi of his time. ever since man started to question the world around him, man needed a way to make since of the world "why does the sun rise each morning?" Today we know why, The Egyptions tought their young it was a goddess who swallowed the sun at nite and it passed through her body and reamerged each day. man has always feared that which they can not understand or explain, so then it had to be some kind of God, take death as an example no one knows what realy happens when we die so man in thier fear of it choose to believe that there is a God and a place where we will go to be with lost ones or a place one gos to if your bad. It is this that helps them cope and gives them comfort and keeps kids inline. fear of the unknown .But lets not forget it was a few men who wrote the book to dictate to all men that which they believe is the way all men should live and how all men should act.and as history has shown us in the past if you did not follow their way of thinking then they killed you.More wars have been fought in gods name than not, just like now a days war, we dont follow the belief that Osama does so we are wrong and in his and his followers eyes we must all be destroyed.Hitler,Osama,Constantine,even the cathlic church back in the day all killed hundreds who did not bend to their way of thinking. Religion is just that a Belief derived out of fear. Fear of the unknown and unexplained.
JJROTH: This is not to cause debate but just for pondering. I agree that the books of the Bible are no longer what they were, as in they have been changed over the years to fit certain purposes of those writing them, or those over the people writing them, but who is to say any of the others are uncorrupted they too could have been changed in the past just as the books of the Bible were changed to fit in with how Roman heirarchy wanted them to look? I'm just saying, I agree with you buy at the same time, making the statement that the books you alude to are uncorrupted is a bold statement. we could not be sure of this unless we had a time machine, not the ride on Idiocracy.
bamabigguy, [quote]making the statement that the books you alude to are uncorrupted is a bold statement[/quote] Do you know that the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls provided the very proof you are asking about. These were all types of documents from the same period that were sealed until they were discovered 2,000 years later by Bedouin shepherds in 1947. They proved that the documents from the Bible were virtualy unchanged, or in your words, uncorrupted in those 2,000 years.
my point is and was, knowing about the dead sea scrolls and other scrolls that have been found, that how do we know the original versions were not written, as the new testiment books, especially gospels, as plays and other works for Roman Heirarchy and that if something they disagreed with was said you would be killed,how do we know that they are the truth? what i am getting at is, yeah it is cool to find this stuff but we werent there so how do we know that what was said is the real truth. all documents are from one point of view and everyone should look at everything from as many points of view as possible and with skepticism. and i have reseached these and other books that they had back then but did not "make" the New Testament when it what put together.
if you want to throw out knowledge, did you know that Jesus birthday was originally celebrated on either Jan 5 or 6th but was changed to better coincide with the celebrations of pagan beliefs, can not remeber what god or under who, gonna look it up. I mean, this is just if you want to throw out knowledge.
I don't know of any Christian texts found among the Dead Sea scrolls, so if anyone is inferring that Jesus' existence can be proved by the discoveries there I think they're mistaken. You could argue that some of the documents found there influenced early Christian thought, but It's my understanding that the Dead Sea Scrolls consisted of hundreds of diverse Jewish scrolls. To say that the Dead Sea Scrolls confirm that the current Bible is relatively unchanged from its earlier form is false.
I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty confident I'm right on this.
EDIT: I decided to look up some information about the DSS and found that many of the scrolls do agree with current Jewish Bible, but to call the documents virtually unchanged is quite a stretch.
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