The film starts by claiming the Apostles stole and hid the body of Christ and then just invented a Resurrection story. But then why would anyone who cares about either Jesus or the Apostles or Christianity want to be buried alongside his named unresurrected bones in a vast family tomb that therefore scandalizes his friends and his Gospels as well as him? Only Nero or someone else who hated Christianity would have done this .. unless it was just a family who liked Jesus and so named all members like the family of Jesus.

Forgetting the fact that the only DNA these filmmakers cared to test was also aiming only at scandal, since it could imply a marriage between Magdalene and Jesus by showing no maternal relationship... and they only made the film after that scandal path was cleared, and also discounting how they do not tell people that their favorite "Acts of Phillip" apocrypha is a fourth century text that puts a Greek spin on the name of Magdalene or how they misquote even their own scientific consultants in the film, the really big deal here is that the Resurrection of Jesus - the totally empty original tomb and the physical meeting with Magdalene (who reaches for him saying "Rabbi!", not "Husband!" or "Lover!") was therefore clearly a physical, not just a spiritual, vastly important event in the Gospels.

But even if one has no faith at all and can believe the Resurrection was just a lie invented by the Apostles, surely no one can imagine anyone who loved Jesus wanting to later be buried with him in a way that proves the lie and undermines the Christianity being preached everywhere.

It makes no sense, family would not do that if they could have; but the salesmen are so deceptive that for 25 years no one has said this yet.

I say they are too deceptive AND stupid ... and more offensive than cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed. Will you denounce it please?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: dolliee,

The burial in the tomb of these people did not undermine Christianity because Christianity was just beginning at the the time. Remember, when Jesus and these people were buried, the Gospels hadn't been written yet.

You're forgetting that every person in that tomb was a Jew. They were buried as Jews. What on earth is offensive here, and why is it scandal to suggest that Jesus might have been married? Jews of his time were practically commanded to marry; it would have been odd for him to be celibate.

Gospels were GIVEN when Jesus spoke them and were preached before they were written and the Resurrection was a big part of them as Jesus promised to raise "THIS TEMPLE" in 3 days in any event.

Celibacy has nothing to do with whatever species propagation rules you are thinking of. It is a mirror of child-like innocence in the Divine and in Heaven and that is the way it will stay.

Do not waste my time with your needs for scandal. You obviously understand nothing and care less.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: dolliee,

I need scandal because I asked you an honest question? You have your own ideas about celibacy, just as the Jews had theirs.

If I did not care, I wouldn't be on this forum discussing this topic. And I don't understand many things - one of them being why you are taking such offense.

athlynne has the upper hand on this one. the problem is that the church wont give you truth of what really happend cause it doesnt have it. if it did, it would destroy it so that they would still function as an organization.

There is nothing honest in trying to say that when the Gospels were written should make a difference as to what went on when they were happening and being simultaneously preached as Jesus sent the Apostles out even during his ministry. So what were you hoping to say?

And celibacy is a child-mirror that God wanted an example of here in Jesus and Mary, I promise.

I have studied a lot.

And she has no upper hand.

He promised his own Resurrection and so his family would never do a tomb thing even if he failed.

You may have studied, but you can't say what God wants. You can only say what you *believe* God wants. That's all anyone can say.

Yes, of course real events inspired and survived into the Gospels. But Mark, the first Gospel, wasn't written until around 70 c.e., quite a bit after the fact. And any Gospel is only one person's point of view. The truth, I'm sure, was stretched and ignored many times to fit the author's needs. And there were later changes, as well. Since you've studied a lot, I'm sure you're aware of the ending grafted onto Mark's gospel by a different author.

I don't quite understand your last post. Let's say, hypothetically, Jesus did intend to be resurrected. Let's say it didn't work. Jesus's family would not bury him properly?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding?

I want to know where the bones are, and why weren't they in the ossuaries or whatever they're called? Isn't that where they're supposed to be? Or am I missing something?

Commoncents, I know, they didn't really explain this in the doc. The bones have been reburied, as orthodox Jewish authorities insist must be done for all human remains unearthed by archaeologists. Don't worry, they know where the bones are.

How about loves children, hates scandal as the definition of what God wants that is relevant here.

You want to strain at gnats and swallow camels?

dolliee, you are misinformed. completly.

Again, dolliee, you can't know God's opinions. How would God define "scandal"? We can only speculate.

And no, I leave gnats and camels alone.

Look: Even if the Apostles hid the body and went around proclaiming a Resurrection LIE the family of Jesus would have left it like that in God's hands since Jesus promised his own Resurrection as I said.

They would NOT be buried anywhere near wherever the Apostles put him as`a matter of law since he might rise at any time and they could not seek special treatment by being near him. It just could not happen.

Besides I believe he was resurrected anyway.

You just refuse to see how stupid these film guys are.

Scandal is dishonor to the Holy Name and I am not misinformed.

You refuse to see that you are spouting opinion, not fact.

Now I'll give you my opinion. If Jesus didn't resurrect, the apostles and the family may have assumed that he wasn't going to at all. Therefore, isn't it logical that they would have given him a proper Jewish burial?

And I don't think the filmmakers are stupid because their findings don't support your beliefs. Why on earth should they?

And according to me, a scandal is a public misdeed or disgrace informed by the social mores of a specific time and place.

It's all in the eye of the beholder.

Scandal to God can have nothing to do with time or place since it would echo everywhere eventually

Okay. I suggest that you stop throwing the word "stupid" around. Can't we have a mature discussion?

A hustler? Where did that come from?

Once more, your opinion. We don't know exactly what Jesus said and what was merely attributed to him later. Maybe he didn't say anything to them about resurrection. If you go by the Gospels, the Magdalene certainly seemed suprised to find his tomb empty. Maybe she, and they, didn't know or believe he would rise.

And I don't think any Jew of the time would have left the body of a loved one unburied.

I think you misunderstood. Scandal is different things to different people at different times. The Clinton/Lewinsky affair was a huge scandal in the U.S.; in France, a President having a mistress is not an outage. Values are not the same everywhere.

Now I'll let us get back on topic.

I didn't say unburied. If they hid where they buried him it would stay so and Tabor is stupid not to know that even IF that is what happened. And it isn't.

SCANDAL to God is not/cannot be like that. If it would offend ANYWHERE it offends everywhere. If it offends today it will still offend tomorrow.

I cannot believe you don't understand...are you looking for Tabor to hire you for something?

And even if the writers did change some Gospel things you can't possibly believe they would invent his promise to raise THIS TEMPLE in 3 days!!! THAT is not the kind of thing anyone but Jesus would think to say! And THAT is all there is to it since it promised Resurrection.

Now if you want to treat everything like an opinion and a "maybe" then explain the global spread of the Religion --- or do you believe there is no Spirit of Truth guiding righteousness?

Anyway, if the floor under your feet turns to quicksand with all your guesswork don't blame me.

I agree with Athlynne. I am also curious as to why those with faith are having the hardest time with this. Isn't this what you want? The Truth!

2,000 years is a long time for a story to get distorted. Not to mention multiple people telling it from their own viewpoint. Its also human nature that people write history to their own advantage. Ever wonder why the church is called the ROMAN Catholic church? When you take these into account, why wouldn't someone be skeptical of the Bible?

I for one have found a little more faith that Jesus might have even existed. I don't care about him walking on water or any of the other "stories". Look at what a man like that did to the world! Shouldn't we know all we can about such a man, be he human or the son of God.

Let the truth out. Society is ready. Too many secrets have been kept for far too long.

The point is it cannot be true. And people with faith therefore care how God must feel when stupid people start impossibly stupid scandals and no one says so.

If you want to care about a real scandal, ask why the Catholic Church picked an impossible non-Jewish name for the father of Mary that was invented for an evil King of Israel by the Pharaoh Neccho.

Then even after the Koran straightened it out and said his name is AMRAM, like the father of Moses, the Catholic Church still kept the scandal going and added that the Church does not need the Koran.

Then there were events and Amos Signs at Fatima Portugal to remind them that Mohammed and his daughter Fatima and the O.T. Book of Malachi are no joke. But still the Church keeps the scandal going.

So if you and this Tabor guy like scandal and want to expose secrets and distrust the Catholic Church, at least hit them for a worthwhile honorable reason and without hitting God for no reason as well.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: dolliee,

[quote]The burial in the tomb of these people did not undermine Christianity because Christianity was just beginning at the time. Remember, when Jesus and these people were buried, the Gospels hadn't been written yet.

You're forgetting that every person in that tomb was a Jew. They were buried as Jews. What on earth is offensive here, and why is it scandal to suggest that Jesus might have been married? Jews of his time were practically commanded to marry; it would have been odd for him to be celibate.[/quote]

These tombs are dated as late as 70 AD. At that point, or between 31 AD when Jesus died and 70 AD when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans.
Jesus beliefs, yes not yet called Christianity,
but His beliefs WERE already circulated throughout the Mediterranean. Paul's letters are dated around 55 AD. And at least one Gospel written 10 years after the death of Jesus.
The sayings of Jesus, the source document known by scholars as Q, was possibly written while Jesus was still alive. These would have been his sayings and parables. History would have been added later to form a Gospel. And from that Gospel others would have been possibly used as source material.

To say that they were buried as Jews could be incorrect. Jesus real family, certainly brother James and His mother believed His teaching.
Yes they were still Jews. And in fact early Christianity was still very Jewish. But it is interesting that there are no signs of any Christian symbols associated with early Christians.
The symbol of the fish or the X cross symbol or Chi-Ro.

http://research.yale.edu/divdl/images/eikon/ei0351s.jpg

These have been found on some early Christian ossuaries in Jerusalem. Why didn't the ossuary of Mary Magdalene, who obviously was a disciple of Christ bear this markings? Her ossuary is marked with Jewish symbols, or common Jewish decorations.

thank you for backing me up in the face of the Taborama hocus pocus locus club

i began visiting Israel in 1980 and no one then thought this "find" could have had anything to do with Jesus and all knew it would be nothing but scandalous to even hint otherwise

but PM Begin, whom i met, had an excellent brain

whatever is left of Sharon apparently still does not or they would loudly denounce these frauds

This message has been edited. Last edited by: dolliee,

Since nobody else has seen fit to say so, I will. Dolliee, your fanatic rants only show that you are the "stupid" one. You make it sound as if Jesus dictated the Gospels to a stenographer. Jesus, as far as I know, never claimed to be born of a virgin. So where did that bit of hocus-pocus come from? More to the point, you seem to claim that the only possible interpretation of Jesus' promise to raise the temple in three days was that he planned to come back from the dead in bodily form and then float off into outer space. I'm sure your narrow mind doesn't realize how incredibly "stupid" that sounds. I've also done a lot of reading, and I can say with absolute certainty that many of the leading Biblical scholars of today -- men and women of very devout faith -- would heartily disagree with much of what you spout.

Since you have both mind and heart problems i will say i do not care if you and everyone like you disagrees with your whole essence wherever it is.

FYI the Koran repeatedly refers to Mary as "she who guarded her virginity" just in case Luke's Gospel is not enough for you.

PLUS, when the Word of God (also the name of Jesus in the Koran if John's Gospel is not enough for you) SAYS something it might as well be written because it will be done

Please take your quicksand elsewhere.

Regardless of how many flaky so-called "religion" scenes ar out there nowadays, someone ought to have taught you that, unlike you, God does not ever chat or gossip or say or do anything that could or would ever forsake Him.

Actually, I blame the Catholic Church for the likes of you and your ilk. Do you know, for example, that for 14 years in Rochester New York, with a Catholic Priest there writing it all down as if to mock Mohammed and the Koran, a man named John Leary has had "visions" several times a week of a demon he thinks is Jesus (and the Priest okays it) who says things in the visions like "People are are like this car".
(If the real Jesus said that do you know what would happen?)

The Catholic Church allows it. So attitudes like yours are their fault.

PS- On the evening of 9/10/01, just before the 9/11 morning attacks, the "vision" showed him "a welcome mat".

This message has been edited. Last edited by: dolliee,

Well...dolliee, you are one scary individual. You obviously have no idea how to think for yourself or make an informed, intelligent opinion. You are the type of fanatic that gives Catholics a bad name. I am a person of faith, raised Roman Catholic, and I take no offense at the hypothesis that has been put out there by this documentary and book. I found them very fascinating and thought provoking. I find it comforting to think that Jesus loved Mary Magdalene and possibly married her and had children with her. Did you happen to see the video of Rabbi Shmuley Boteach on Fox News today? I thought not. He is fantastic. You should listen to what he has to say. Really listen. And if you had been paying any attention at all last night you would've heard them address why they only tested certain DNA.
Your use of the word "stupid" in every post to describe anyone who disagrees with you is not only libelous, it is downright childish. Do you have any idea how ignorant you sound? It's sad. I feel sorry for you...