If we assume that Mariamne IS Mary Magdalene and that Jeshua bar Joseph IS Jesus of Nazareth, how does the lack of mitochondrial DNA prove that they were husband and wife?? Could it not also be assumed that a) she could be the spouse of one of the other males found in the tomb, Jose or Matia or b) she could be related in some other fashion? Matia's presence in the tomb assumes an "extended" family at best. Mariamne could just as easily be a cousin, or a great aunt, etc. This jump to a marital relationship between Jesus and Mary Magdalene stretches far beyond the scientific evidence.
I would think finding dna of both in another ossuary would pretty much prove it... did they test all the bones?
The fact does remain that if Joseph had been a good jew, and by all accounts he was, he would have been bound to give his sons a trade, a wife, and a full religious education. Its accepted that Joseph gave Jesus everything else, why not a wife too. Taking a wife would have been expected. If Jesus had been unmarried, his motives and teachings would have been suspect to other Jews.
Katccaa, it is a bit of a jump to assume Miriamne *must* be Jesus's wife; she could be a spouse of one of the other males. Hopefully, further DNA testing will clear it up!
NEWS FLASH: All of Jesus' motives and teachings were suspect to other Jews. That's just the way He rolled, discrediting the religion and traditions of the Jewish leaders of the time. Hence, that whole things where they kept trying to kill Him, and eventually did. He was not bound to their man-made rules and traditions and he made clear His opinions against them. Since marriage is not part of the Jewish Law ordained by God through Moses, there is no reason why Jesus would had to have been married. Jesus was not a Rabbi of Judaism, so He did not need to be married to have that title. Rabbi simply means "teacher", and it is what his disciples called Him.
It's suspect because you have a group making this film saying, "we do not believe the canonical and orthodox view of jesus" BUT, let's use the New Testament to work a hypothesis. What the heck? It makes no sense.
How do they even know there was a historical Mary Magdalene? Why would they imply marriage unless they were in the "davinci code" crowed? Why couldn't that Mary be an aunt or a wife of any of the other ossuary members? This is where the film is just sensationalism.
While I agree that jumping to conclusion about Mary Magdalene must have been the wife of Jesus Christ was wrong, it is something that jumps out as one of the strong possibilities. I believe that the film-maker should have considered the lashing he would have faced by drawing this "conclusion," but I guess what is done is done.
All things in life are based on probabilities, and so were many conclusions reached in this docu-drama. At least it raised enough compelling evidences to merit further investigation.
If we cant say there was an historical Mary Magdalene then it would follow that all the charactures could be fabricated, including Jesus.
And.... the idea that she and Jesus were married and had children is not a new idea. I have had that belief much longer than the Da Vinci code fiction has been around.
again, he had to have been married or other jews would see his views as suspect. Whether it was to Marianme or not is speculation, but it does seem likely given what the books within the bible and other texts say.
I'm sorry DNA evidence that proves that the two in the coffins aren't related, aren't enough to prove that the there is even a connection between them.
I'm sorry but the directors of this documentary made quite a lot of people upset over nothing. All they have are theories and no facts.
kanabi, everything starts with theories. While the DNA proving Miriamne and Jesus aren't related does not conclusively mean they were married, it's not illogical to suppose they were. Miriamne was likely married to *someone* in that tomb, and there is an old tradition that Jesus and the Magdalene were married. I think that's plenty for a theory...hopefully facts will come along in time.
Yes, some people are upset. But some of us are thrilled!
Yip, theories are born everyday, but it is all it will ever be, a theory...
No different than the world being flat theory, that people believed for thousands of years, or the evolution theory that has now been incorporated into our education, but many scientists still argue to be impossible.
Yeah I'm sure there are some thrilled people out there.
Now they can continue to live their immoral lives without having to worry about burning in hell.
Obedience to WHOM! Oh wait let me guess, the Illuminati perhaps? Or how about the Council of Foreign Relations? No wait of course if must be the aliens!
I’m sorry, but I don’t buy it.
As a Christian the only thing I need to have to practice my faith is a Bible (not even) and myself. I don't see anyone profiting or benefiting financially or physically from me sitting in my room talking to God.
On top of that, have you taken a look at the state of this world! Sex, drugs, fame and money is all the world is about these days!
In my opinion (even if I wasn't a Christian) faith is the only thing, preventing the entire world from throwing away their self-respect and sleeping with the pigs.
As far as proving hell goes, I throw that straight back at you, prove that the body inside the coffin does belong to Jesus, and prove that he didn’t ascend to heaven spiritually, before, you claim to understand everything.
In the end it cannot be help – if you think all believers are fools for being ‘ignorant’ as you state it, then I’d rather be an ignorant fool than an all-knowing atheist.
Theories are theories – you choose your side and I’ll choose mine.
The producers of this documentary only chose to reveal what THEY wanted to about the research! Let's deal with the FACTS and NOT theories. After all...look at where the THEORY of evolution got us...btw FACT: Darwin himself said his theories about evolution where all a joke and never meant to be taken seriously..that's a FACT...look it up!)
FACT: The bones in this and many other ossuaries were given a proper Jewish burial in 1980...therefore the the DNA gathered for testing was mitochondrian therefore...very limited.
FACT: The image that looks like a cross is more likely an arrow pointing to the top of the ossuary. (Ok..I can't prove that's a fact, but it sure makes a lot more rational sense)
FACT: 25% of women had the name Mary or some variation of the name in Jesus' time. (That's one in 4)
FACT: The THEORY that Mary Magdeline and Jesus had any other relationship than that mentioned in Scripture is based on the gnostic writings dated 400 years AFTER Christ. (ie: Gospel of Thomas, Acts of Philip, etc)
FACT: The average ossuary had 2 people's bones (the true number is 1.7 people per ossuary)
FACT: Mariamne IS mentioned in the Acts of Philip...but it is NEVER mentioned as the wife of Jesus or any other blasphemous thing. In FACT, the name is NEVER Linked to Mary Magdeline. Remember...1 in 4 women had the name Mary (or variation of)
FACT: Mariamne was the name of Herod's favorite wife. This name is in many factual historical writings has MARIAMNE. Since Mariamne means "Mary, master" it makes a TON MORE LOGIC that Mariamne could actually be Herod's wife.
FACT: The Christians were being persecuted during this time. Would they really have time to bury people in such expensive, noticeable tombs? FACT: remember: it took one year for the body to discompose enough to place it in an ossuary.
FACT: The Jewish leaders (like these producers) were TRYING to disprove Jesus' resurrection. So...why would this "tomb of Jesus" not have been written about in 1st century Jewish writings, exposing Jesus' body?
FACT: Jesus' family was NOT from Jerusalem...they were from Nazareth. So why would his family tomb be in Jerusalem?
FACT: "Jesus, son of Joseph" was a title ONLY used by Jesus Christ's enemies. So, if this truly is Jesus' tomb, why would this name be used?
CONCLUSION: Based upon all these FACTS I conclude that these producers must have a personal vendetta to destroy Christianity. After all...if you take away the resurrection of Christ (and even his virgin birth), you take away the basis of Christianity. If we all do some research on our own and don't MINDLESSLY take these guy's word for it...we will see this documentary is FULL of false assumptions and willful ignorance of the FACTS!
NOTE: These facts presented are from Dr. James White's research. He will be putting out a book by Easter time based on his research. BTW..Dr. White has been in contact with many of the same scholars that the producers site...but Dr. White will give the FULL findings and not just the ones he feels like giving.
Jesus is ALIVE and will return to judge the living and the dead. No TRUE and HONEST science will ever disprove any of Christ's claims or teachings.
There are NO bones in the ossuaries! They were all buried in 1980. And WHERE in the BIBLE does it say ANYTHING about Jesus being married? Don't bother looking...you WON'T find it.
Remember the "OLD TRADITIONS" are based on gnostic writings in 400s AD. 400 years after Biblical writings. The gnostics were people who did not believe in the resurrection and were false teachers. The Apostle Paul wrote the book of Colossians and other books refutiating their claims.
Please don't link the gnostics with true Christianity...it's NOT!
This is exactly the ignorance I speak of. The bible is a book built by commitee. It is NOT a historical document. It has been rewritten to follow certain agendas by a corrupt church and corrupted men. Look it up... at least one pope was a raving pedophile! Granted, the stories within are most probably from many real events. But even the books within contradict each other on many key events, not the least of which how long he hung on the cross. One book says 3 hours one says 6, neither a long enough time to die. Even with a superficial stab wound to an uncritical area of the abdomen.
True, evolution is a theory, because we are constantantly learning more about it and changing/perfecting our knowledge, which is based on visible and verifiable facts. The bible is a group of stories. Period. Even the story of Jesus's virgin birth, star of Bethlehem, 'miracles' performed, death by the state, and resurection is not the story of Jesus but of that of Mithras, a roman god worshiped a hundred years before the birth of Jesus.
ibelieveintheresurrection blind faith in fairy stories only serves to prove people will cling to what they think they know despite the evidence staring them in the face. They ignore the blatant inconsistancies in their own book.
Blind faith is the hope of every conman out there. And it frequently gets people dead.
My wifes uncle is a trained geologist, and unfortunately a born again christian. He believes, despite the overwhelming evidence, that the earth is 10,000 years old because the list of names in the bible spans that length of time. People can believe anything.
You would do just as well to start worshiping Ozopopolous the walrus god and his deciple Bill the penguin. It's just as valid as the bible.
no, no, don't believe the people that lived in the time and saw, believe the over translated, over edited, chock full of agenda, book.
Better yet, people, lets open our eyes and stop wasting time on unanswerable questions and start looking at saving this planet from ourselves so the human race can go on believing whatever it wishes!
Ibelieve and kanabi, give the proselytizing a rest. It makes you sound desperate and ignorant. We don't expect you to live by the rules of our favorite books, you can't expect it of us.
Ibelieve, why would Herod's wife be buried with these other ossuaries? If you know of a reason, I would be genuinely interested to know it. Refresh my memory - Miriamne was the "favorite wife" that Herod married to legitimize his claim to the throne and then murdered, along with their child, right?
[quote]One book says 3 hours one says 6, neither a long enough time to die. Even with a superficial stab wound to an uncritical area of the abdomen.[/quote]
Which one is in disagreement? From the 6th hour to the ninth hour and then he died. Are you familiar with the process of crucifixion? You don't bleed to death, you suffocate. Considering the flogging that Jesus had received before hand its no wonder he died so quickly.
"which is based on visible and verifiable facts. The bible is a group of stories. Period."
What verifiable facts? Like the facts of spontaneous generation?
"blind faith in fairy stories only serves to prove people will cling to what they think they know despite the evidence staring them in the face. They ignore the blatant inconsistencies in their own book."
What about all the flaws in science which you so wonderfully parade around as the greatest good? Science always changes because we dont know everything, but yet we claim them as fact until something comes along to disprove it. Just because you have never see a miracle doesn't mean that they don't exist. What about those who have miraculous remission of cancer? Remission that cannot be explained. Does that exist?
"The bible is a book built by committee. It is NOT a historical document. It has been rewritten to follow certain agendas by a corrupt church and corrupted men. Look it up... at least one pope was a raving pedophile!"
The Bible was not built by a committee it was written over many years by many different people, people that despite being far removed from one another are still in complete agreement with one another. What did this pope change in the bible? Do you read the biblical languages? Yet another person, an unbeliever who claims the naivety of Christians, and claims that there is some conspiracy but don't support any valid sources, that is academic. The Bible is a historical book, it mentions kings of Israel, the countries surrounding Israel and also it prophesied many events in history. That is the defeat of Babylon by Cyrus the Great before he was even born. These kings of Israel are not only mentioned in the Bible but on many different writings of the Babylonians, Assyrians and Egyptians. To deny the historical facts in the Bible is just as naive as you claim believers are.
I'm expecting some comeback that will include a "your a bonehead" "sheep" "blind faith" type attack. Thanks in advance.
How long was the hike up to Calgary? The lashes could not have been deadly, and the hanging while it does suffocate, not a bone was broken on the Body of Jesus. A superficial wound to the side in a non-vital area.
How many friends did Jesus make along the way?
How many people heard and knew the truth?
How many people cared and shared their gifts in the workforce as guards and followers, who becomes the neighbor to Jesus and getting him down off of that cross because of the day of feast.
Yep all things work together for good and for life.
