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Senior Member
Registered: 06-28-07
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ok where I live (texas) its legal to own wolves. I found a breeder here who claims some things that i feel are a little crazy. now I dont know a ton about wolves but they claim wolves are related to felines which I know scientist believe canines and felines shared a similar ancester but split millions of years ago. so they say its ok to feed them cat food and that wolves wont get fat but they are calm. has anyone heard this or know if its even true?
Senior Member
Registered: 10-13-06
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Even if they were related to felines millions of years ago, that doesn't change the fact that they are classified as canis, which obviously is dog.

Wolfs need to be feed what they would naturally eat in the wild, which is basically a raw diet.

To think you could feed them cat food is honestly quite ridiculous and just another great portrayal of why people do not need to be owning or breeding wild animals, legal or not.
Senior Member
Registered: 02-25-08
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It is legal to own wolves there? That's just asking for trouble. And feeding a wolf cat food just wouldn't work. Now, a live cat might, but I can't imagine wolves eating Fancy Feast out of a crystal dish.
Member
Registered: 04-05-08
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wolves, where do i start on wut i know aboutthem. well first off they eat meat. NOT CAT FOOD!!!!! the feline part i wouldn't doubt because as u aid canines and felines do share a common ancestor but it was one from farther back then te wolf. If a wolf is kept in a large enclosure of course they won't get fat and if they feel they ar the alpha they are anything but calm.
Senior Member
Registered: 02-25-08
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Actually, I just watched something the other day about dogs and wolves. Apparently, dogs today will give up easily but then 'ask' for a human's help with something. The wolves they used had been raised by humans since birth and were treated like dogs. But the wolves were determined to do things themselves and didn't pick up on human's signals or emotions as fast. Hundreds of years of domestication and breeding have turned wolves and dogs into totally different animals.
Senior Member
Registered: 06-28-07
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yea I seen that thing where they had 2 pull out food from under a cage. I wouldnt say they're tottally different animals cuz thats like sayin a chihuahua and a dane are tottally different when they aren't. The only difference is domestication and the fact wolves are carnivores and dogs are omnivores.
Senior Member
Registered: 02-25-08
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But a chihuahua and a dane are exactly alike. They just look differently, and have slight personality differences. But in most respects, wolves and dogs are nothing alike, except for maybe slight appearance. But that domestication part makes all the difference in how both species think and act. And physical-wise, wolves are carnivores and dogs omnivores, they both have different systems. Even instinctual-wise: you can tame a stray dog, but you can't tame a wolf. The dog just won't fear us on the same level as a wolf.

Dogs just aren't wolves, and vice-versa. It really annoys me when I see people treating a dog like a wolf and people trying to keep a wolf as a pet. In my opinion, it makes the same amount of sense as treating a puma like a house cat: it just doesn't work.
Junior Member
Registered: 04-06-08
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ok im, not against owning wolves but for the love of cheese and rice get one from somebody else!If you must have one get one from someone who knows what they are doing! Get a wolf from this buck-o and your likely to get a greyhound with a fur coat on!
Senior Member
Registered: 02-25-08
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Not against getting a wolf? I certainly am! Stick with domestic animals. He wasn't talking about getting a wolf, just telling about some weirdo who does have them. A pet wolf is just asking for trouble.
Senior Member
Registered: 06-28-07
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a couple years ago before i got my pit i was thiking of getting a wolf from there but if i would've seen that i would've ran
Senior Member
Registered: 10-13-06
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quote:
Originally posted by pitt-man:
yea I seen that thing where they had 2 pull out food from under a cage. I wouldnt say they're tottally different animals cuz thats like sayin a chihuahua and a dane are tottally different when they aren't. The only difference is domestication and the fact wolves are carnivores and dogs are omnivores.


Dogs are not omnivores. Just because the people who make Ol'Roy put corn in their dog food doesn't mean they evolved to eat it.
Senior Member
Registered: 02-25-08
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I disagree. Dogs are omnivores. Mind you, not all food they are meant to eat. Corn is just bad for them. But notice how shiny a dog's coat gets with certain grains? Today, they don't have to get grains to get that shiny coat. We have other things we can put in it. But dogs eat grass to help digestion. Although dogs do need more meat, the right grains do help.
Senior Member
Registered: 10-13-06
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Myth: DOGS ARE OMNIVORES.

This is false. Dogs are carnivores, not omnivores. Dogs ARE very adaptable, but just because they can survive on an omnivorous diet does not mean it is the best diet for them. The assumption that dogs are natural omnivores remains to be proven, whereas the truth about dogs being natural carnivores is very well-supported by the evidence available to us.

1.) Dentition

Look into your dog or cat's mouth. Those huge impressive teeth (or tiny needle sharp teeth) are designed for grabbing, ripping, tearing, shredding, and shearing meat (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pg 258.). They are not equipped with large flat molars for grinding up plant matter. Their molars are pointed and situated in a scissors bite (along with the rest of their teeth) that powerfully disposes of meat, bone, and hide. Carnivores are equipped with a peculiar set of teeth that includes the presence of carnassial teeth: the fourth upper premolar and first lower molar.

Contrast this with your own teeth or the teeth of a black bear. A black bear is a true omnivore, as are we. We have nice, large, flat molars that can grind up veggies. Black bears, while having impressive canine teeth, also have large flat molars in the back of their mouth to assist in grinding up plant matter. Dogs and most canids lack these kinds of molars. Why? Because they don't eat plant matter. Teeth are highly specialized and are structured specifically for the diet the animal eats, and the difference between a bear's teeth and a dog's teeth (both species are in Order Carnivora) demonstrates how this can be (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pgs 260.). To see a visual comparison of the teeth of a dog to the teeth of a black bear, please click here. One can logically ask: If a dog (or cat or ferret) has the dentition of a carnivorous animal, why do we feed it pelleted, grain-based food?

2.) Musculature and external anatomy

Dogs (and cats) are equipped with powerful jaw muscles and neck muscles that assist in pulling down prey and chewing meat, bone, and hide. Their jaws hinge open widely, allowing them to gulp large chunks of meat and bone. Their skulls are heavy, and are shaped to prevent lateral movement of the lower jaw when captured prey struggles (the mandibular fossa is deep and C-shaped); this shape permits only an up-and-down crushing motion, whereas herbivores and omnivores have flatter mandibular fossa that allows for the lateral motion necessary to grind plant matter (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pgs 258-259.). Consider this quote from the previously-cited Mammology text:
"Canids, felids, and mustelids subsist mainly on freshly killed prey. These families show correspondingly greater development in 'tooth and claw'; they also have greater carnassial development and cursorial locomotion." (pg 260)

This translates to a simple fact: everything about a dog or cat's body design says they were designed for a carnivorous, hunting lifestyle geared toward killing prey. However, humans have done some major tinkering with this body design (resulting in varying sizes and conformations), but we have done nothing to change the internal anatomy and physiology of our carnivorous canines.

3.) Internal anatomy and physiology

Dogs and cats have the internal anatomy and physiology of a carnivore (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pg 260.). They have a highly elastic stomach designed to hold large quantities of meat, bone, organs, and hide. Their stomachs are simple, with an undeveloped caecum (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pg 260.). They have a relatively short foregut and a short, smooth, unsacculated colon. This means food passes through quickly. Vegetable and plant matter, however, needs time to sit and ferment. This equates to longer, sacculated colons, larger and longer small intestines, and occasionally the presence of a caecum. Dogs have none of these, but have the shorter foregut and hindgut consistent with carnivorous animals. This explains why plant matter comes out the same way it came in; there was no time for it to be broken down and digested (among other things). People know this; this is why they tell you that vegetables and grains have to be preprocessed for your dog to get anything out of them. But even then, feeding vegetables and grains to a carnivorous animal is a questionable practice.

Dogs do not normally produce the necessary enzymes in their saliva (amylase, for example) to start the break-down of carbohydrates and starches; amylase in saliva is something omnivorous and herbivorous animals possess, but not carnivorous animals. This places the burden entirely on the pancreas, forcing it to produce large amounts of amylase to deal with the starch, cellulose, and carbohydrates in plant matter. Thus, feeding dogs as though they were omnivores taxes the pancreas and places extra strain on it, as it must work harder for the dog to digest the starchy, carbohydrate-filled food instead of just producing normal amounts of the enzymes needed to digest proteins and fats (which, when fed raw, begin to "self-digest" when the cells are crushed through chewing and tearing and their enzymes are released).

Nor do dogs have the kinds of friendly bacteria that break down cellulose and starch for them. As a result, most of the nutrients contained in plant matter—even preprocessed plant matter—are unavailable to dogs. This is why dog food manufacturers have to add such high amounts of synthetic vitamins and minerals (the fact that cooking destroys all the vitamins and minerals and thus creates the need for supplementation aside) to their dog foods. If a dog can only digest 40-60% of its grain-based food, then it will only be receiving 40-60% (ideally!) of the vitamins and minerals it needs. To compensate for this, the manufacturer must add a higher concentration of vitamins and minerals than the dog actually needs.

Is the dog an omnivore? Its dentition, internal and external anatomy, and physiology say it is not. Even its evolutionary history (discussed later) says the dog is a carnivore. So when people tell you the dog is an omnivore, ask: "What about this animal makes you think it is an omnivore?" Make them explain their position to you before you explain yours. Chances are they'll cite this next myth as "proof".
Senior Member
Registered: 02-25-08
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Yes, but then look at how dogs and cats are different. Dogs can live on a meatless diet. Not as healthy maybe, but they can survive. Can cats? No. Cats are the true carnivores. They need a meat diet to survive. There's no doubt dogs were built for a carnivore diet. But that they can live healthy on a meatless diet, says they are omnivores.
Senior Member
Registered: 06-28-07
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I've read on some sites and eve this one that dogs are omnivores. they do have partial molars in the back of their mouths. its part molar part incisor
Senior Member
Registered: 10-13-06
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quote:
Originally posted by talltail:
Yes, but then look at how dogs and cats are different. Dogs can live on a meatless diet. Not as healthy maybe, but they can survive. Can cats? No. Cats are the true carnivores. They need a meat diet to survive. There's no doubt dogs were built for a carnivore diet. But that they can live healthy on a meatless diet, says they are omnivores.


I'm not speaking of cats or "partial" teeth though.

We're all entitled to our opinions, and then their is scientific fact. We can all believe what we want.

You want to feed grains, more power to you! You want to believe your dog is vegan? Go for it!

I would love to see a dog that lives on a meatless diet and is 100% healthy. Care to show me one?
Senior Member
Registered: 06-28-07
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Our feline friends are classified as true carnivores because they must consume meat in order to survive. Canines are just slightly different from cats in their conversion of foods for life maintenance; dogs are classified as omnivores.
Senior Member
Registered: 10-13-06
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quote:
Originally posted by pitt-man:
Our feline friends are classified as true carnivores because they must consume meat in order to survive. Canines are just slightly different from cats in their conversion of foods for life maintenance; dogs are classified as omnivores.


Classified by who, on what and where?
Senior Member
Registered: 02-25-08
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I never said anything about a dog on a vegan diet that is 100% healthy. I don't think it could happen. But they can still be healthy on it, and they can survive on it.

Dogs were originally classified as carnivores. Now, many are debating that fact. You have to look at partial teeth and cats for comparison though. Cats can't live on a vegan diet. And dogs do have partial molars. So there are some differences there that you can't ignore.

I'm not saying dogs SHOULD eat a vegan diet. I'm just saying it's possible. And hey, dogs are changing all the time. Things could have changed in a dog's system since first being classified as carnivores.
Senior Member
Registered: 06-28-07
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they couldnt survive on a vegan diet their systems arent made for that. but they do eat plant matter. at the most you can call them non-obligate(sp) carnivores
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