Everyone:

Athena returned from the KMP. Her latest postings on Page 5 confirms the researches did intervene to try to save Flower. She will not go into discuss the details of her death as it is too painful to relive, but I encourage you all to read her recent postings. Hopefully this will put a final end to any speculation, accusation and controversy regarding the removal of her radio collar and saving her life.

Click on Meerkat Manor at the top of this forum.
Click on Talk About Meerkat Manor (4th topic down).
Find topic "Back From KMP".
Other than her initial response on Page 1, her next postings are on Page 5.

Thanks to Athena for answering our concerns and sharing Flowers final moments with us. It is time to let Flower go, allow her soul to rest in peace and the memory of her to live on!

Thank you so much for letting us know they tried to help Flower with medication, etc. and took her collar off. Flower is/was a part of our human family for several years. I couldn't bear the thought that no human came to aid her in her time of need when she had always been there for her family. And the fact that they tried to resusitate her, speaks to the workers love for her. We know she was buried which she definitely deserved.

She was a kindred spirit with a wonderful soul and will never be forgotten.

Flower - thank you for everything you gave to us. We will miss you, but you will live on in all our hearts.

I don't think meerkat manor should be intervened by humans. I believe that one thing that makes meerkat manor one of the best shows is the fact that reality is never warped and you get to see the true life of meerkats. if humans saved random meerkats, the authenticity of the show would be shattered. We cannot mess around with the animal kingdom; if we start curing all meerkats or saving all of them from danger, they'll become dependent on us. They'll overpopulate, and the food chain will be messed up. As sad as I am for the death of flower, i don't believe that meerkats' lives should be intervened by humans.

I agree Simon113;

Even without verification, as I stated in another posting, I'm sure that "all" was probably done that could be done. Although I miss Flower, sometimes you have to go by gut feelings and "faith" that humans are "humane" when it counts; even when you can't verify all the particulars of any given situation.

But thank you Eurasianlady for the info!

Everyone...I am glad you all found the information useful. It sure answered a lot of questions.

I can understand Watcher2007 comment regarding the researchers intervening, but I also agree with Simon113 and Thommiegirl. Researchers should not intervene with wild life in this case and allow nature takes it course. If the researchers chose to intervene, they should have euthansized Flower knowing they could not save her life. Secondly, it should not be a pick or choose of which Meerkats to save when their life is in danger. Not to sound heartless, but it is all or nothing.

EurasianLady-
With the exception of Flower, I agree with you as well. We should remain watchers. But even Jane Goodall who watched many deaths and sickness with her chimps would step in when there was no hope in exceptional casesand put the chimps to rest to prevent needless suffering.

We all cryed when Shakespeare disappeared, and when we watched Carlos die, and when we saw the pups killed or taken by predators and I wouldn't have wanted anyone to interfere. Life on the Kalahari is what it is. But I am sure the team knew Flower really had no hope and wanted to make her passing easier.

Thanks again for the update.

Watcher2007, Eurasianlady, and others:
I also agree that we should remain observers of animals in the wild. BUT, as I wrote in an earlier post, there is a line between "letting nature take it's course" and relieving horrendous suffering IF IT IS IN OUR POWER TO DO SO by humane euthansia. Watcher - you mentioned Jane Goodall. Biologists I spoke
with also said this is done - they've done it - when there is no hope for an animal. If you get right down to it, even some human medical doctors have admited to the practice when confronted with terminally ill humans and their families. Great suffering is terrible both for those experiencing it and for those who must witness it.

I hope with all my heart that the researchers (if they were in a position to do so) chose to intervene and humanely euthanize Flower. They knew she was dying. What possible harm could come to the project at that point? What would be accompished by allowing her to experience a prolonged and agonizing death?

For me, humane euthansia if an act of mercy - one of the last gifts we, as humans, can give to someone we've known and loved whether that someone is human or animal.

Parmelia - I agree completely! Well said. Thank you.

Parmelia:

I agree with you whole heartedly. The researchers should have euthansized Flower and relieve her of her suffering. Some may disagree with euthansizing because of the fact of not intervening with nature, BUT my whole point to this is that since the researchers chose to intervene to save her, they should of intervened to put her down.

It is possible they did and information is not available to the general public - who's to say and this point.

I agree and disagree with Simon113 first of all i understand what you are saying about the meerkats becoming dependant on human intervention, but there is a little something called moral-values the people at KMP are caring loving people if a meerkat was taken by an eagle and a human batted it it down with a camera and saved the meerkat (even though i wish they would) it would make the meerkats dependant on humans to survive but if a poor soul was bitten by a snake and was dying right in front of them they would help because they care they wouldn't care about anything else just in that moment in that place flower was all they cared about with that said letme ask you what if you crashed your car and you were hurt and you saw a paramedic standing next to you but they wouldnt help you because they didn't want to interviene and they just sat and watched you how would you feel?

I agree with you meerkat lover, I had my own analogy regarding if a member of you rfamily were being chased by a predator and there were news people filming it, would they keep filming, or put down their cameras, try to stop it in some way, or jsut calling help like the police. IT IS TOTALLY A MORAL ISSUE.

This was what I posted a little while ago:


Hi, I just recently began watching Meerkat Manor, and these kats are adorable, anmazing little animals! Although I guess this aired months ago, this is new to me and I really wanted to share my views.

Please read this:

I watched the Nightline episode regarding the show, and I must say I got very upset. I cannot believe that the camera people, producers, and researchers did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to intervene, and help save Flower's life. I did not want to see this episode, but as I've been watching the re-runs in the past week,this episode came up, I just couldn't believe that the camera people and others who produce the show, and whomever was out there in that field did nothing to either rescue Flower from the snake, or divert the snake's attention away, or ANYTHING that would have spared her life. How could they???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
They did nothing, and I'm sure these are the same people who consider themselves "animal lovers", but they're not... From what I can tell from the interviews of Mick, and in watching Meerkat manor, the show producers and perhaps even the researchers are in this for selfish reasons, material reasons. Are they really there to learn about the Merrkats, and is it to ultimately help them thrive as a species??

Mick said that as scientists they are not supposed to intervene in the course of events in the Kalahari, but it's obvious to me that just in planting themselves in the Kalahari Meerkat environment,and with all their camera equipment they use there and especiallly the intrusiveness of the cameras in the Meerkats'w homes - their burrows, and especially the securing of electronic collars on the Meerkats' necks, which is totally UNNATURAL a thing for them, these human beings are already having a direct influence in the lives of the Meerkats and perhaps course of events. Who knows, maybe the snake itself sensed cameras and commotion in the environment and was more irritated and behaved accordingly.
For the producers to say that they can't help a Meerkat in trouble, that they can't intervene on their behalf in a life or death situation is just hipocritical BS. I was angry and sad as I witnessed this in the episode. So if it's a human being you might intervene, but if it's an animal you won't???? WEll, there is no difference! Human being are animals too. WE are ALL living creatures sharing the planet, and ALL HAVE THE SAME RIGHT TO BE HERE. Not helping Flower was a totally unethical cowardly DESPICABLE decision, and I was disgusted by this. It's obvious from the show, and all the outpouring of grief that she was a truly special heroic being, and deserved to be treated that way into old age to pass away in a peaceful, natural way. Not in the way she was in which she suffered. She was such an incredible creature,doing all she did to guide and protect her family and even sparing hte life of the enemy camp's baby Meerkat.
The only thing done right here was the proper burial of her body. On Nightline, Mick said that they didn't really see grieving oN the aprt of the Meerkats, I can't imagine that, what with their close family unit, hierachical structure, and roles; but then in the online forum he said there was some grieving. So which is it? I was saddened, and although I was glad to discover this show, and this species called Meerkats, I don't plan on watching the show, as I don't know if the Meerkat colonies are being exploited for the sheer purpose of TV. entertainment for people. And this is not projection. I'm not and I don't think a lot of these other people are just projecting human qualities on to the Meerkats, we knowthey're nto human, but they are LIVING CREATURES, and wonderful living creatures who have a right to life.
Hi, I just recently began watching Meerkat Manor, and these kats are adorable, amazing animals! I watched the Nightline episode regarding the show, and I must say I got very upset. I cannot believe that the camera people, producers, and researchers did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to intervene, on behalf of Flower's life. I did not want to see this episode, but as I've been watching the re-runs in the past week,this episode came up, I just couldn't believe that the camera people and others who produce the show, and whomever was out there in that field did nothing to either rescue Flower from the snake, or divert the snake's attention away, or ANYTHING that would have spared her life. How could they???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
They did nothing, and I'm sure these are the same people who consider themselves "animal lovers", but they're not... From what I can tell from the interviews of Mick, and in watching Meerkat manor, the show producers and perhaps even the researchers are in this for selfish reasons, material reasons. Are they really there to learn about the Merrkats, and is it to ultimately help them thrive as a species??

Mick said that as scientists they are not supposed to intervene in the course of events in the Kalahari, but it's obvious to me that just in planting themselves in the Kalahari Meerkat environment,and with all their camera equipment they use there and especiallly the intrusiveness of the cameras in the Meerkats'w homes - their burrows, and especially the securing of electronic collars on the Meerkats' necks, which is totally UNNATURAL a thing for them, these human beings are already having a direct influence in the lives of the Meerkats and perhaps course of events. Who knows, maybe the snake itself sensed cameras and commotion in the environment and was more irritated and behaved accordingly.
For the producers to say that they can't help a Meerkat in trouble, that they can't intervene on their behalf in a life or death situation is just hipocritical BS. I was angry and sad as I witnessed this in the episode. So if it's a human being you might intervene, but if it's an animal you won't???? WEll, there is no difference! Human being are animals too. WE are ALL living creatures sharing the planet, and ALL HAVE THE SAME RIGHT TO BE HERE. Not helping Flower was a totally unethical cowardly DESPICABLE decision, and I was disgusted by this. It's obvious from the show, and all the outpouring of grief that she was a truly special heroic being, and deserved to be treated that way into old age to pass away in a peaceful, natural way. Not in the way she was in which she suffered. She was such an incredible creature,doing all she did to guide and protect her family and even sparing hte life of the enemy camp's baby Meerkat.
The only thing done right here was the proper burial of her body. On Nightline, Mick said that they didn't really see grieving oN the aprt of the Meerkats, I can't imagine that, what with their close family unit, hierachical structure, and roles; but then in the online forum he said there was some grieving. So which is it? I was saddened, and although I was glad to discover this show, and this species called Meerkats, I don't plan on watching the show, as I don't know if the Meerkat colonies are being exploited for the sheer purpose of TV. entertainment for people. And this is not projection. I'm not and I don't think a lot of these other people are just projecting human qualities on to the Meerkats, we knowthey're nto human, but they are LIVING CREATURES, and wonderful living creatures who have a right to life.
They couldn't put down their cameras for a moment to help out Flower? I was actually crying as I saw this. I wonder if a member of your family was running away from a predator - a killer, - just like we here reported on the news - would you want the camera people to put down their cameras to help out your family member??? (deter them by creating distraction, drawing attention away, as you call the police perhaps) Don't argue - It's the same thing... That's why I've grown disgusted with TV. and the media and only watch the rare show.
Has anyone esle noticed how the storylines are so neat, and planned, like a human drama or comedy unfolding for us. Makes me wonder how much of it is actually real, and what we're told happened the way it did. I will find other ways to learn about Meerkats, and protecting them as a species, the way they should have done for Flower out in the Kalahari, and God knows I don't want to see another act of negligence and carelessness as this one was, though I hope the producers and researchers learn from this, and help save another Meerkat next time.. R.I.P. Flower, you will always be with us, I love you You are a heroine, I'm glad you lived as long as you did, and enjoyed time with your family, and I know your spirit is with the Meerkats, and you may even come back reincarnated as I think a lot of animals do... "


So this was what I wrote earlier 'cause I was very upset; now I encoutered this new post that they actually did try to save Flower, what did they do? and why did Mick the producer report otherwise on the Nightline episode?

She was so brave and a wonderful leader, I still cry when I think about her being gone.
Gone but not forgotten, Flower, you are still very much loved.

I recommend that you believe what the principle investigator Dr. Tim Clutton-Brock says in the video clip.