In most countries that aren't named United States of America global warming isn't viewed with suspicion. What makes Americans so adamant about denying it? Politics.
Nothing gives ordinary people the facts and intelligence necessary to compete intellectually with prominent scientists more than politicians telling them "other facts."
Look people, global warming wasn't a "myth" back in the 70s and 80s. We were warned of the dangers of "greenhouse gases" causing the "greenhouse effect" that will heat our planet to unbearable levels. Back then though the most identified culprit was chlorofluorocarbons or CFCs.
Easy enough, the manufacturers who used them in their products took it upon themselves to switch to othe things and in 1978 our government banned their use like a responsible government should do.
Now fast forward to the turn of the century. Al Gore becomes our government's face of global climate change. This time the culprit is vehicle emissions which effects two of the largest, poltically powerful, and historically negligent indutries in our country. Let's look at a little history shall we?
In the early 1920s, a form of lead is added to gasoline to reduce engine knock. Automotive and chemical companies come together to produce this amazing super fuel. Within years many people at these companies die from sudden lead poisoning. The next year the Surgeon General of the U.S. calls for hearings which, lo and behold, are dominated by the interests of companies who have invested time and money into this. They play dirty politics as long as they can, until finally the lead content of gasoline is restriced in the 1970s.
Now these two large industries are under fire again, but unlike the hairspray and refrigerator manufacturers, these companies are afraid of change and are powerful enough to stop the government from forcing them do to so. The politicians in our country are so polarized that they will say the Earth is flat if the other party says that the Earth is round first. And which party does Al Gore belong to? Now which party is claiming that global warming is fake? Where were these deniers back in the 1970s and 1980s? It's politically prudent for them now because it wasn't their idea so they have to be against it. It doesn't hurt that Republicans are more friendly to large industries than Democrats are. The argument is not that global warming hasn't been sufficiently proven it's that the effects of forcing these major industries to change what they do would cost us jobs and these companies too much money for something that they don't believe in.
Let's remembers people, these are the same companies that were more concerned about their bottom line than about the many people who worked for them dying! Do you really think that they care about our planet if they don't care about the lives of those who live on it?
This is so frustrating to hear this ignorance spread for the sake of corporate interests. The republicans will find themselves on the wrong side of this issue historically. Some of them have stopped denying global wamring's existence for this political season, but deny that man causes it.
For those of you who are looking at ice caps and history. you are looking at the wrong science. You use Earth temperature cycles as proof that global warming isn't real? You're wrong! The studies done in 1974 that lead to the banning of CFCs was not a historical research project. The study was about the effect of these gases on the layer of our stratosphere that filters out most of the Sun's UV radiation before it reaches Earth. These have nothing to do with history. Studies that show that bullets kill people because they damage one's heart when they penetrate it cannot be denied with backwards pseudoscience that shows that people have been dying for thousands of years. Please take a formal logic class because your logic is flawed.
So in summation, if you haven't been denying global warming since the 1980s at least, or if you are using as proof something that someone said that hasn't been denying it since at least 1974, then please shut your mouth.
So in summation, if you haven't been denying global warming since the 1980s at least, or if you are using as proof something that someone said that hasn't been denying it since at least 1974, then please shut your mouth.
I love the left, so willing to have civil discussions. So open minded to other's opinions. So full of themselves.
I lived through the 60's and 70's when the same scientific groups were frightening people with scares of the impending ice age. The permafrost layer in Canada was creeping south at an unheard of rate of 1/2" per year.
As to earth's temperatures, isn't it interesting how NASA's (and Algore's) top climate scientist was discovered fixing October's temperatures to fit the warming pattern, while every other country was declaring a colder than normal October. In fact, 2008 looks like it may be one of the lowest temps in recent times.
Also, isn't it coincidental that Algore was the person who, in the 70's, headed a government panel that looked into how easily the government and people could be duped by scientists presenting falsified data to support theories? And now, using the same methods presented in the study, he is pushing global warming using some of those same groups as his supporters?
Did we have a period where global temperatures were on the rise? Yes, undoubtedly. Was it man made? Doubtfully. It is only enviro-arrogance that believes man is so important as to be able to impact the world to such a degree.
If man is responsible for this effect, then how do you explain similar temperature rises on other planets in our system? A more likely explanation leads toward the solar cycle, and now that the cycle is reducing we will see the results in the lowering temperatures. Or will your people lay claim to being responsible for "successfully reversing global warming"?
If you want to blame this on corporate greed, what about the fact that there is more money being made "greening" the planet than by keeping the status quo? Look at your god Algore, he is making more money than ever before by selling carbon credits from the company he founded, while he is using more energy that the rest of his county combined. Oh, but he did plant those trees.
Give me a break. When history and the ice caps back your theories you laud them, when they go against your theories you tell people to ignore them and create some other kind of dribble.
As to the rest of the world, why not follow their lead, they have been so good at making decisions in the past.
All gas emissions are insignificant next to the solar activity and other outside of the planet factors. So yes...it'a all a political BS no matter what side you're on.
Im from australia and I agree with "wga hiker" In australia the left wing has run with this issue as well, they try to convince us that global warning is real and we all should be affraid and then they say vote for us and we will solve the problem. It worked beautifully for them last year when they kicked out a conservative government who have been in power for 12 years.
Your post is typical from what I have seen from the far left.
Your not a scientist so what you say doesn't matter.
Oh you are a scientist, but not a "Climate" scientist then what you say doesn't matter.
Oh you are a climate scientist and disagree, then you must be getting payed by Exxon and what you say doesn't matter.
In all truthfullness, we don't know what has caused most of the recent warming. I do find it interesting that the average temperature has been dropping since 2005, while the sun has been on the low side of its 11 year cycle. Kind of hard to immagine that being possible when man caused global warming is supposed to be responsible for something like 97% of the recent warming. Oh yeah its a weather event (thats lasted 3 years now)
Without a doubt, there is Global Warming and climate change, but history speaks that global warming is an earth cycle, it happend 10,000 years ago like it is happening now, man could never have prevented it from happening even if we knew it was coming thousands of years ago. And certainly the animals and little people living back then didn't have cars and factories to make global warming then.
Humans do a good job at making a big deal about things like "arctic animals can die through global warming", it's evolution, and the people whine that the Earth is over populated, it's because man has tampered with evolution so much. On the special on fixing carbon the other day, I see people are planning to make devices that can suck all ther carbon dioxide out of the air, I think the scientists that thought this idea should be slapped for thinking of it and should throw that idea away.
It is an idea that will do alot more harm than good. if these machines take all the carbon dioxide out of the air, then all life on earth will end. The evidence is as follows: Everyone knows that our main oxygen supply comes from the trees and plants, but the trees and plants breathe carbon dioxide, and if you take the carbon dioxide out of the air then the trees and plants produce oxygen which means we can't breathe and life will all suffocate wondering what happened. I think if mankind is depending on science to help us over natural knowladge in this scenario then may the gods help us, cause we're as good as dead like that. Humans tampering with evolution is my geuss of how this world will end, mankind destroys itself and all life by messing with evolution.
I know this stuff not because I sit infront of a computer all day looking stuff up, nor reading it from a book. I know it because I listen to peoples ideas and I basically play worst possible scenario, or in easy terms, what will be the most likely effect that will happen. Sometimes the true smartest thoughts can't be taught by book, computer nor teacher, but only by the knowladge that we get naturally, just by sitting or standing and just think about what may happen if the idea is actually a bad one.
Like Carbon Dioxide is can be bad for you, if you,ve got a direct feed of it going into your lungs. But trees and plants need carbon dioxide as bad as we need oxygen. I hope these people that desighed these things that suck carbon dioxide out of the air reconcider thinking about what the bad effects of this plan could be, or 2012 just may be the Earths end, if these things are running.
It's never happened to me but, death by suffocation I can speak for everyone when I say it doesn't really sound like a pleasent death. Antone who may be scared from reading this reply, I'm sorry, but I'm just pointing out the obvious to anyone who really thinks about stuff instead of letting computers think for them. And about 2012, I am one that doubts it'll be the end, but again I'm just stating something to take into consideration.
The last thing I want to say is truly to this, humans let computers think for them too much now-a-day, it's ok sometimes but for stuff like this we should be using our heads, not our keyboards, because we have brains for a reason and we truly need to use them for this. Like look at other things too, think how long the sun has been living, when stars age they grow, meaning when the sun grows little by little it's still getting that much closer to the Earth. So basically it's like I said, Global Warming is not man made and humans could not have prevented it. Here in Renfrew, Ontario was the Earliest we've gotten snow in 3 years and we've gotten a record of -46 with windchill, in 1956 it was -45. And the 07-08 winter, up in the Ottawa Valley we got 52 inches of snow. The lightpole in my grandfathers yard wasn't to be seen, you could just see the lights on it. So just think about these things before you choose what to be causing this global warning and what we can do about it.
Alpha, I share your understanding of the issue. The real litmus test to out the global warming denier crowd is they reduce a scientific argument to a political one, and when they mention Al Gore in the same breath as global warming, you realize you are listening to a trained sheep who was taught by the likes of Rush Limbaugh, or even the Senator from Oklahoma, James Inhofe, that somehow, this scientific issue is boiled down to pure politics.
"Boiled down to", no pun intended.
In summary, it does take an incredible amount of partisanship and equal parts ignorance to be a climate change skeptic. The billions of tons of formerly sequestered fossil fuels pumped into the troposphere cannot be ignored as anything other than what it is, perhaps the sole reason for the obvious: climate change.
Another thing a bout the deniers: It unmasks their selfishness and lack of respect and care for of anything but themselves. Sick people.
Originally posted by zabhawkin: Alpha Al Gorist... interesting name Al
Your post is typical from what I have seen from the far left.
WARNING: Climate change denial ahead. Full bore it seems.
quote:
Originally posted by zabhawkin: In all truthfullness, we don't know what has caused most of the recent warming.
We know exactly what causes it. It's called "science", and you can use science to make actual measurements of something, like carbon in the atmosphere, compared to what was in the atmosphere thousands of years ago, procured deep from an ice core, and was retrieved, analyzed, and measured and then compared to a recent measurement.
You won't hear much science on FOX News and AM radio so try and find an informed source for your information. You might learn something, but judging from the level of denial you are already in, doubt you would want to anyway
Originally posted by lambroast: Im from australia and I agree with "wga hiker" In australia the left wing has run with this issue as well, they try to convince us that global warning is real and we all should be affraid and then they say vote for us and we will solve the problem. It worked beautifully for them last year when they kicked out a conservative government who have been in power for 12 years.
If you knew your continent, the driest on earth, was suffering acute drought due to the effects of climate change it could make you a supporter of efforts to study it and reverse it devastating effects. Many a farmer in Australia has lost their farms, and their lives, because of the effects of climate change, and you can almost guarantee the western United States will, in the next 50 years, experience the same drought affecting your country. Stay in denial while your country burns from wildfire and drought. And John Howard was an American stooge of the neocons.
Originally posted by zabhawkin: Alpha Al Gorist... interesting name Al
Your post is typical from what I have seen from the far left.
WARNING: Climate change denial ahead. Full bore it seems.
quote:
Originally posted by zabhawkin: In all truthfullness, we don't know what has caused most of the recent warming.
We know exactly what causes it. It's called "science", and you can use science to make actual measurements of something, like carbon in the atmosphere, compared to what was in the atmosphere thousands of years ago, procured deep from an ice core, and was retrieved, analyzed, and measured and then compared to a recent measurement.
You won't hear much science on FOX News and AM radio so try and find an informed source for your information. You might learn something, but judging from the level of denial you are already in, doubt you would want to anyway
OOOOh so touchy, I spent the last 3 years researching the subject, including reading the IPCC reports. I doubt that you have even bothered reading much. Yes we have good measurements that have shown that 1 yes the CO2 concentration has gone up, largely caused by our use of fossile fuels. Yes the average temperature has gone up and not just since records started, but recently.
Maybe you can answer a question I like to ask. If global warming is cause almost solely by our use of fossil fuels then how come the average temperature of the earth has been cooling since 2005? Some of you might note that I don't use 1998, thats because 1998 was an anomaly, 2005 is the actual peak.
It is not really the point of any discussion on actions that result from this thing. What is at point is whether or not causes have been isolated and proven. By labeling people "deniers", the discovery of this proof is implied. Implying proof and showing proof are two very different things.
If there is no proof, then what is there to deny? The problem is that there is no proof. CO2 has increased and the average planetary temperature has increased. Also increasing during this period is the number of cute and fuzzy kittens. Which one is the cause? Both? Either? Neither? Please present proof.
Proof will allow predictability. Proof will be supported by data. Our current warming started before the Industrial Revolution. It has continued in fits and starts to today with a current cooling trend.
If the increase of CO2 has caused the warming and a reduction of CO2 will decrease it, why has the temperature decreased in the face of increased CO2?
By the by, about 5% of the air is comprised of Green House Gases. About 4% of that 5%, that is, around 4 tenths of 1% of the total, is CO2. About 3% of that fraction is contributed by Man's activities. Whenever anyone discusses the huge numbers of anthropogenic CO2 emissions, be aware that they are talking about .0012% of the air.
We are arguing about reducing that part of the contribution to the air and changing the entire economy of the world for something that is not a proven causal connection.
If adequate reductions are made to effect the reduction that AGW Proponents clain are needed, a Global Famine of incalcuable proportion will ensue.
I felt like I should throw in that last part because not AGW Proponent can avoid including a warning of dire consequence in his portrayal of what will result from innaction.
To further show AGW is a ploy for some groups to get more money/power, if the U.S. government thought it was serious, they would be doing a cost-study of moving or recreating important buildings and monuments from coastal D.C. to S. Dakota.
Global warming what a bunch of crap. Why else would you kooks change the name to "climate change"? This is all about money, the greedy and American hating lefties trying to bring down the USA. You what to make the US companies have all these restrictions, but yet let other countries do what ever they want. Just look at the money trail, its going all to Algore and his cronies. This is the biggest hoax the world has ever seen. I emailed a friend of my family not to long ago to see what he thought of the whole matter. He is a DR. he researches the climate down in Antarctica like 3 to 6 months of the year and he is the one that told me to follow the money. He is a very well known Dr. even has a point in Antarctica named after him. I can not tell you his name for he would lose his grants or whatever, be fired, or who knows what. He tells me that dozens of his colleagues have been fired, barred, shut down, and blacklisted because they came forward telling the truth about all this BS.
Originally posted by zabhawkin: Alpha Al Gorist... interesting name Al
Your post is typical from what I have seen from the far left.
Fossil fuels? I just read one of your enviro reports that said livestock was the #1 contributor of greenhouse gases. So which is it? I alos know that the earths temp cycles about every 700 years and we're on the up side of that right now. WARNING: Climate change denial ahead. Full bore it seems.
quote:
Originally posted by zabhawkin: In all truthfullness, we don't know what has caused most of the recent warming.
We know exactly what causes it. It's called "science", and you can use science to make actual measurements of something, like carbon in the atmosphere, compared to what was in the atmosphere thousands of years ago, procured deep from an ice core, and was retrieved, analyzed, and measured and then compared to a recent measurement.
You won't hear much science on FOX News and AM radio so try and find an informed source for your information. You might learn something, but judging from the level of denial you are already in, doubt you would want to anyway
OOOOh so touchy, I spent the last 3 years researching the subject, including reading the IPCC reports. I doubt that you have even bothered reading much. Yes we have good measurements that have shown that 1 yes the CO2 concentration has gone up, largely caused by our use of fossile fuels. Yes the average temperature has gone up and not just since records started, but recently.
Maybe you can answer a question I like to ask. If global warming is cause almost solely by our use of fossil fuels then how come the average temperature of the earth has been cooling since 2005? Some of you might note that I don't use 1998, thats because 1998 was an anomaly, 2005 is the actual peak.
qtrhorse8 Fossil fuels? I just read one of your enviro reports that said livestock was the #1 contributor of greenhouse gases. So which is it? I alos know that the earths temp cycles about every 700 years and we're on the up side of that right now.
According to some, anything and everything we do is bad.
The ignorance of the climate change denial crowd is not only apparent, it is also appalling. And, of course, denial of this topic is not possible without ignorance.
Originally posted by odanny: The ignorance of the climate change denial crowd is not only apparent, it is also appalling. And, of course, denial of this topic is not possible without ignorance.
The ignorance of the 'give us your money so we can study this' global warming crowd is all the more more apparent. And, of course, support of global warming is not possible without ignorance or greed.
I recently heard that all this data collection sites that study global warming, that 90% or more were built too close to artificial surfaces like pavement or were on rooftops. This gives them a MUCH higher reading from the ambient heat of these surfaces and thus invalidate the data.
Frankly I think it is a little egotistical to think that me driving a regular car as opposed to a hybrid or electric is going to make the Earth hotter, or that my change makes any difference. You still would have places like China and India that have billions of drivers polluting. Your driving a hybrid car makes no difference it is like taking an eye droppers amount of liquid from a large pool.
The real reason for ANY major change in average temperatures is the sun.
Like Hiker said in the 60s and 70s we had fears of global cooling and an ice age. There are two articles I know of from the mid 70s. One in Time and one in Newsweek. Both expressed fears on an ice age. Same things were hear today of famine and such. The culprit? Greenhouse gasses! So how is it that these magical cases cause global cooling in one decade but soon after case warming? Not possible.
All Global Warming is is a chance to scare people into being more accepting of political change and more demands on businesses.
I disagree with people denying global climate change. We are rearranging enormous amounts of weights around. Changing the rotation of earth, by burning this gas which was underground at some place, then us redistributing it to the sky, and this gravity will try and equalize in weight, resulting in change. We would have to consider all human activities, such as deforestation, erecting condos, individuals relocating to another place being fooled by warm temperatures all year round. Mining also changes the flow of gravity I think. By that gold which was underground, which is now at someone elses ring finger. That cosmic elements, which was at some other location, now at someone's face. That clothing, made from cotton, etc.etc. Do you understand my point of view?
Posts: 41 | Location: Barrenlands, Hudson Bay | Registered: 01-23-09
