Does anyone know the time span between the time Flower gave birth to her last litter and when she passed away, and when Liz emerged from the burrow ? I'm just curious what the time span was here. Thank you for any help.
RIP Flower. You touched more lives than you'll ever know !
West Coast Meerkat - aren't you the one who is totally not into spoilers? Since this isn't the spoiler section all I can say is if those were really the 2 babysitters in the burrow - Sophie and Spud there was mention of them after that date - but this is AP and who knows who was actually babysitting - and why did they show only 1 meerkat pup emerge - did they ever mention how many were born? She did only have 2 emerge from her last litter of pups - I do read the spoilers and check the kmp site - but I have not looked into that yet - I would say check the spoilers but I think it is you who avoids them - right?
Meerkatmike - I too wondered about that time frame - I think it was a shot from the future to help people deal with Flower's death - I did not hear a time from during the episode but watching all 3 seasons from the very beginning - several times each episode - I have learned you miss some and pick up a few new things each time you watch so we may catch some time frame or how many were born of that litter - Pups don't come out of the burrow until they are like 4 weeks old I think - and these guys were still underground - also - they mentioned Daisy and Mabeline were still pregnant so I don't think it was a long period of time -
I read the article in the LA times and was quite upset about what the general manager of AP said about how it might help to remember Flower wasn't always very nice, banishing daughters who got pregnant or cavorting with Houdini - Does she not watch the show - "normal meerkat behavior" - I of course, was upset when meerkats were evicted - we lost Tosca because of that - but it was normal meerkat behavior - and let's admit it - as much as we love Zaphod - he was slacking there a bit - can't blame her -
As for Flower - are there words? So much emotion -
If I can remember correctly, I believe they shot the 48 hour time sequence with a short view of the sun changing direction. Kinda like speeding up the time by showing the different angles of the sun. It was done discreetly and it wasn't obvious but I think that was the way to show that time had passed before the camera showed her lying on the ground, which devastated me. I appreciate the fact the producers used tact and reverence towards the narration. Flower's death was difficult enough to accept and I dreaded watching this particular episode but I did because I knew I'd eventually regret it if I didn't. I started missing her as soon as I found out about her death a few months back. I think this Friday's episode is going to be a harsh reminder of what we have lost.
Flower, you were Queen of the Kalahari. The Iron Lady. You were tough at times, but everything you did was for the better good of the group. You had many qualities that if more people had them, the world would be a better place. You will always be remembered. By your fans, your family, and even your enemies.
In the last 3 years I have had to euthanize three of my dogs. I held all of them. I did not know Flower very well but I saw a real leadership qualities. For her to split the group was a masterfull act of survival skil.
The TV show is organized like a soap opera and we dont get all the scientific details. So I would like to think of Flower as her contract was up and the the producers didn't want to pay her what she was worth. So she was written out of the storie.
Hopefully Flowers offspring will have learned all her extrodinary life lessons and keep the Wiskers strong. Flower is ready for the big screen
Accepting Flower's death - Like so many of you, I was so sad that Flower died. I went online to Kalahari Meerkat Project. Reading through it, I saw years of history of many many meerkats, in many families. A lot of meerkats have lived and died, including many leaders. A lot of groups have formed and broken up. It put Flower's death in perspective for me. It showed me that Flower was one of many meerkats that lived a good life, and she lived longer than many of them. Meerkat Manor shows us lovable little wild animals, with individual personalities. We watch them and love them, but they are wild animals who live as they have lived thousands of years, long before people came along and loved watching them, and as they will continue to live. Now I will go on watching Meerkat Manor and seeing the rest of the cute meerkats.
I am new here. I too, was shocked when Flower died. I did not know about her death earlier, as some viewers did. I live in Fredericksburg, Texas. We are moving here from Houston.
My husband is in Houston and does not know about her death. He also enjoyed the series. I have a feeling he is going to be unhappy about this.
I understand the rules of research. I also understand that the world is not fair, and the good do not always win or even prosper.
I do not blame anyone for Flower's death. What she did was very natural for her and her family. I wish some humans were as good about doing the best and protecting their families.
One of the things I would like to see from the producers and researchers is some answers to the fans of this program, as well as some investigation of whether or not the collars used on the Meerkats could not be replaced with something more modern and less cumberson in the tunnels.
Extrapolate the size of a Meerkat to that of a human. Then, try crawing through a tunnel on all fours after a snake with that collar on. Movement would be hindered in an emergency. There is no other reasonable conclusion.
Those tunnels look tight. Flower may have adjusted to the collar, but it is still there, when she tried to move to dodge the striking snake.
I believe that there are better transmitters available. I would even be willing to give a contribution toward a fund to modernize their research with animals toward this end. I will bet that there are others like me who feel this way. Improving safety for our Meerkats would be a good idea at this time--a good way to expend the energy being used for grief and anger being shown on this forum.
I was wondering what the viewer reaction would be when bad things happened, as they do in nature on this program.
I will not quit watching because it is a facinating wonderful study that gives insight to the evolution of humans as well as the life of the Meerkats. The people who are doing this work must be stronger than I am.
However, it would be helpful to have a little more transparency from the producers and researchers. Transparency is good in research. I would rather have the unvarnished truth than a fiction.
Hi, Rottierescuemom, this is a good place to vent! You brought up good points and I had to wonder if that cumbersome collar had a chokehold on Flower while her face was swollen. I hope not, but something more modern, as you had mentioned, should be quickly utilized.
I watched journeys end again this afternoon. We get re-runs on Mon. and tue. How beautiful, and how sad! I knew they had based the show on Flower because she was the best D.F., and this episode shows that very well. It was good to see Liz poker her head out! I dont want to speculate on anything that could of or should have been done. I'am just glad I got to know our beautifull queen!
This is the first time I have written on this site, but I have to express my sadness of losing our lovely Flower. I did not know what was going to happen and when it did, I broke down and cried like a baby (my poor cats looked at me like I was crazy and didn't know what to do). I had been disturbed about the other deaths and wished I could have saved Blossom and especially little, crippled Squiggy. I had wondered about the time, too. There was a chat I looked at yesterday and they were trying to figure if Liz and Axle were related. If I remember correctly (and I hope I do), if Flower's pups Len and Squiggy were the product of meeting Houdini, and she went away, then Liz and the other pups must have been Zaphod's because she was gone for a long time and Houdini had moved on, including mating with Rocketdog, Daisy and Mabelline.
I'm sorry if I am rambling on, but I have watched the show since the first episode and have cried with all the deaths and laughed with all the new pups. I also wonder who Flower's mother was, if she was the DF and taught Flower how to be the brave, wonderful mother she was. I'm sure that Flower's girls have all learned well and who ever takes over will be a shining example of what her mother was.
Again, please forgive me for being so long and I hope it is alright that I joined this chat.
Welcome to the burrow! I can say with 99% certainty that Axel is Lola and Frank's pup, and that Liz is Flower and Houdini's pup. Len and Squiggy had already been born when Flower mated with Houdini. Their birth make her receptive again. If she had just given birth to Houdini's pups on the episode that we saw Axel in, that means that Axel is NOT Houdini's. Maybelline and Daisy had not given birth yet, and Houdini became DM after he mated with them so he had no time to father a pup, especially one as old as Axel. I don't thin that Frank would have allowed Houdini to mate within the group until after Houdini overthrew him.
Originally posted by rottierescuemom: I am new here. I too, was shocked when Flower died. I did not know about her death earlier, as some viewers did. I live in Fredericksburg, Texas. We are moving here from Houston.
My husband is in Houston and does not know about her death. He also enjoyed the series. I have a feeling he is going to be unhappy about this.
I understand the rules of research. I also understand that the world is not fair, and the good do not always win or even prosper.
I do not blame anyone for Flower's death. What she did was very natural for her and her family. I wish some humans were as good about doing the best and protecting their families.
One of the things I would like to see from the producers and researchers is some answers to the fans of this program, as well as some investigation of whether or not the collars used on the Meerkats could not be replaced with something more modern and less cumberson in the tunnels.
Extrapolate the size of a Meerkat to that of a human. Then, try crawing through a tunnel on all fours after a snake with that collar on. Movement would be hindered in an emergency. There is no other reasonable conclusion.
Those tunnels look tight. Flower may have adjusted to the collar, but it is still there, when she tried to move to dodge the striking snake.
I believe that there are better transmitters available. I would even be willing to give a contribution toward a fund to modernize their research with animals toward this end. I will bet that there are others like me who feel this way. Improving safety for our Meerkats would be a good idea at this time--a good way to expend the energy being used for grief and anger being shown on this forum.
I was wondering what the viewer reaction would be when bad things happened, as they do in nature on this program.
I will not quit watching because it is a facinating wonderful study that gives insight to the evolution of humans as well as the life of the Meerkats. The people who are doing this work must be stronger than I am.
However, it would be helpful to have a little more transparency from the producers and researchers. Transparency is good in research. I would rather have the unvarnished truth than a fiction.
Thank you for letting me vent.
I think you make a valid point about the collar size etc. Like you said the Meerkats are only 12 inches high. You may want to contact Cambridge University web site they are the researchers in this project so I am not sure that Animal Planet could do anything. There has to be something smaller in todays technology, it's worh a try. Let us know if you find anything out. Eileen. Florida
Originally posted by mimthemum: Accepting Flower's death - Like so many of you, I was so sad that Flower died. I went online to Kalahari Meerkat Project. Reading through it, I saw years of history of many many meerkats, in many families. A lot of meerkats have lived and died, including many leaders. A lot of groups have formed and broken up. It put Flower's death in perspective for me. It showed me that Flower was one of many meerkats that lived a good life, and she lived longer than many of them. Meerkat Manor shows us lovable little wild animals, with individual personalities. We watch them and love them, but they are wild animals who live as they have lived thousands of years, long before people came along and loved watching them, and as they will continue to live. Now I will go on watching Meerkat Manor and seeing the rest of the cute meerkats.
I agree with you 100% I also have done a lot of checking on my own and found out some of the research that has taken place over the past 4 yrs. Earthwatch is another great website and they also do a lot with Meerkats. I have read on several post that Flower was alone for 48hrs before she passed away. Is this true? if so how did you all find that out? I am anxious to see what happens on the next episode. I will try to keep my emotions in check but it's so hard when you love animals. Eileen. Florida
[QUOTE]Originally posted by pottymouth65: If I can remember correctly, I believe they shot the 48 hour time sequence with a short view of the sun changing direction. Kinda like speeding up the time by showing the different angles of the sun. It was done discreetly and it wasn't obvious but I think that was the way to show that time had passed before the camera showed her lying on the ground, which devastated me. I appreciate the fact the producers used tact and reverence towards the narration. [QUOTE]
I am new to this forum although I've watched MM since Season 2, signed up here in August and have lurked until now. Like you and I'm sure many others who knew of Flower's death before, I dreaded Friday's episode. And also like you, on another thread I mentioned or asked if viewers thought AP was discretely showing that time had elapsed with the different shots of day turning to night then day on the desert. I thought this was the classic film technique of showing time elapsing, but also AP was indirectly showing us that Flower was underground almost 2 days as the producer said.
On the other hand, I am not sure everything he said was totally on the up and up; he was a producer, not a researcher with about as much knowledge as the well-informed on this forum. He was definitely here to promote viewership and "feel-out" our reactions, likely hoping his presence would help us remember to watch MM in the future and go see the movie. And I have no doubt it wasn't just a mere coincidence that "Meekats Unmasked" was shown the Sunday following Flower's death, an episode where a young meerkat Arnie miraculously survives a snakebite. This would help us believe that the researchers were truly trying to let nature take its course with Flower were she able to miraculously survive a terrible snakebite as with Shakespeare, too(not trying to be a conspiracy type, but I think tv shows always try to legally prepare for any kind of potential public outcry).
Personally, I doubt that the researchers/or crew (if they were around) thought Flower would survive. I do think, however, they were devastated like us and do not deserve to be blamed for causing or allowing Flower to suffer regardless of the scientific reasons. Like others have said, it is they who have brought these wonderful creatures into our living rooms despite the extreme commercialization that America is simply known for. The researchers have nothing to do with that I would think unless AP contributes $ to their research. Hmmm
As I stated on another thread, too, AP did their best (using much dramatic liberty) to ease us into this episode with an extremely realistic 3rd season fraught with many deaths. And they did their best to pay tribute to Flower in this final episode; they did a great job in solidifying this hero in our hearts. We are all here discussing her. Now, we know, without question, that life on the Kalahari is indiscriminate and cruel.
As with many of us, Flower's death hit me pretty hard even knowing about it before hand and not especially liking her (Mozart is my favorite ). I have those final images of her in my mind and the thought that she should've been put out of her suffering if it were possible. I've guessed that cameras were only there, not people, but having read the transcripts I guess camera people and/or researchers were there at least when Flower emerged with obvious indications of a snake bite. And I am sure they were more than devastated when they discovered it; they have known her much longer than us. We will never know the exact truth, unfortunately.
Sorry so long. Long live the Whiskers who seem to survive and flourish if the life charts on the KMP site are correct. Kudos to Flower I'd say and RIP--you did a fine job on earth.
Did our brave desert rose, Flower, pass surrounded by her meerkat family or did they abandon her? And, if they did abandon her, what amount of time, if any at all, did they remain by her side comforting her?
I did watch several re-runs of Journey's End. I did see how swollen Flower's face was, and it also looked like her neck was swollen. She was in terrible discomfort. and I can't help but think the collar added to her misery. She lived a good life, and built a family to be proud of. I think she became a better DF as time went by, which was proven in the last few episodes, including Journey's End. A brave Queen and mother in her last days. It just bothers me that she suffered. She deserved a better end. I hope she was surrounded and comforted by her family before she died. poor little sweetheart. I'll miss her.
Microchips could be inserted under meerkat skin, as is done with pets. I wonder if this could be used to track where they go, instead of bulky radio collars around their necks.
Originally posted by melbacake: Her death was handled very well, don't you think? There wasn't alot of graphic shots or anything. And I liked the little tribute to her at the end.
On the board, the producer said it took her about 48 hours to die, that is a long time, but they did not know if she would live or not. Shakespeare made it, but he was younger and not bit in the face.
Newbies, welcome to the burrow, and please come back.
Alot of people registered on 09-28-07!
I'm just sorry Flower had to suffer 48 hours. Not to sound morbid, but if they hadn't showed her suffering and dying would you have believed it was her? I know a lot of people were upset they showed her face swollen and dragging along, but I really wonder if many would have believed it was really Flower.I don't care wha tanybody says Flower was a good leader, and 4 years of her rule made her clan the largest because of the way she ruled.
sniff snifff