our networks
tlcanimal planetscience channelmilitary channeldiscovery health channel
shop now
 

Time Warp

 
    Forums    Time Warp    TW: Series Discussion    Centrifugal force does NOT exist !

Moderators: mod_ivy
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
-star Rating Rate It!  Login/Join 
Junior Member
Posted
Regarding season 3, episode 1.

"Jeff Lieberman is an MIT scientist" - if thats the case, then why is he talking about centrifugal force? This force simply DOES NOT EXIST.

Instead, centripetal force is the correct term.
 
Posts: 5 | Registered: 09-19-09Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Senior Member
Posted Hide Post
Centripetal is the opposite of Centrifugal. Centrifugal is the force that moves away from the center or axis and centripetal is the force that moves toward the center or axis.
 
Posts: 314 | Registered: 01-04-07Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Junior Member
Posted Hide Post
Oh boy, I get to do a science lesson!

Ok, "centripetal force is the correct term."
Not really. Let's start with the basics. Centripetal means "tends toward the center" and centrifugal means "flees from the center." Centripetal forces act to keep an object on a circular path. They have to counteract inertia, hence an acceleration towards the center of the circle.

The distinction comes from talking about what reference frames you're in. We're all used to inertial reference frames. If you're in an elevator that's moving and you treat the elevator as stationary, all the math still works. It just has to be adjusted. For example, normal gravitational acceleration near the Earth is 9.8m/s^2. If the elevator is moving accelerating downwards at 9.8m/s^2, things will appear weightless relative to the elevator. Newton's first law is sort of a crude explanation of reference frames.

The trouble arises when talking about non-inertial reference frames (such as a reference frame that is rotating). When working with these, the math doesn't quite work. To account for the happenings in these frames, you need to introduce the so-called fictitious forces. Examples are the Coriolis force and, indeed, the centrifugal force. It's a misnomer to just refer to the centrifugal force as a force. It depends on what reference frame you're in. However, in all inertial reference frames, it doesn't exist. So it's much simpler to call it a "centrifugal effect" or something.

To re-explain that, remember that an object will remain at a constant velocity when the net force on the object is zero. If you're in a rotating reference frame, you feel yourself being thrown outward. If you're in a car, for example, you're being thrown against the car door around a curve. The centripetal force is the normal force from the door, and maybe friction from the seat, etc. So, in this reference frame, it seems the net force is towards the center. This is where the fictitious force has to be introduced to make the math easier. In reality, though, the reference frame itself is rotating through two or more dimensions. And in all other inertial reference frames, the centrifugal force does not exist. Rather, these centrifugal effects are caused by the centripetal (center-seeking) force constantly accelerating you toward the center (and changing your direction at every moment).

Another interesting thing to note is that the fictitious centrifugal force pushes outward from the center of the circle. SUppose you're swinging a ball on a string. At any given moment, the string is providing centripetal force, and the ball feels a centrifugal effect. Intuitively, if you let the ball go, it would go exactly opposite the centripetal force. Not so, because the centrifugal force is not actually a real force. The ball would go tangential to the path it's on, due to inertia.

Again, it's all about the reference frames. If you're working in a non-inertial reference frame, the math works easier when you introduce the fictitious forces. Otherwise, they are due to Newton's laws and kinematics. There is no such thing as a real centrifugal force. But it's not exactly wrong to call it such, because it does exist in a mathematical form under certain conditions. And MIT scientist would completely understand the distinction, but it's just convention.
 
Posts: 10 | Registered: 04-27-06Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
  Powered by Eve Community  
 

    Forums    Time Warp    TW: Series Discussion    Centrifugal force does NOT exist !

 
advertisement
 
SITE SEARCH
SUBSCRIBE TO OUR NEWSLETTERS
CREDITS DCL
DISCOVERY SITES Discovery Channel / TLC / Animal Planet / Discovery Health / Science Channel / Planet Green / Discovery Kids / Military Channel /
Investigation Discovery / Discovery Home / HD Theater / Turbo / FitTV / HowStuffWorks / TreeHugger / Petfinder / PetVideo / Discovery Education
VIDEO Discovery Channel Video Player
SHOP Toys / Games / Telescopes / DVD Sets / Planet Earth DVD Sets / Gift Ideas
CUSTOMER SERVICE Contact Us / Free Newsletters / RSS / Sitemap / TV FAQs
CORPORATE Discovery Communications, Inc / Advertising / Careers @ Discovery / Privacy Policy / Visitor Agreement
ATTENTION! We recently updated our privacy policy. The changes are effective as of October 30, 2008. To see the new policy, click here. Questions? See the policy for the contact information.