Some of things I read are, "Bear gives bad survival advice. Blah, blah blah..." Well I can say without a doubt he doesn't. How do I know? I got a freaking survival book by Tom Brown that has the same freaking crap in it. If you don't know who is Tom Brown, then you better start reading up.
Yes, it is a TV show. Do you think Bear and his crew are so dumb to actually put their lives in peril for your entertainment? No, just as going to a survival school isn't either or taking a backpacking class. The point of the show isn't to show how bad a** Bear is and how much he can survive before keeling over dead, it is to show you some techniques on what to do in certain situations. The guy has a family to think about also. Would you be gung ho and risk your life and leave your family without a father or mother? Hell no!
Last thing, you know they have this wonderful invention called a remote and it has buttons on it that do things. Well two of those buttons change the channel. Wow, what a concept! You can always change the channel if you don't like it. It is not like someone is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to watch this show. Go somewhere else and stop ruining one of few TV shows I actually watch on a regular basis. This and Survivor Man, to me, are some of the best shows on TV.
Bear keep up the good work! Don't listen to these numbskulls. I just wish I could rough it with ya bud!
Really? So if you happen to fall into a frozen lake or stream then you are "up the creek without a paddle" because your survival "expert" never told you what to do if it did happen? Ever heard of Murphy's Law by chance? Using your logic, you would be dead.
By the way, Tom Brown has fallen in freezing water before and tells you what to do about it. It is one of the only times he said "anger" actually played a part in helping warm his body up. He was so mad at himself, that by the time he got a fire built, he was nearly dry already.
[quote]Really? So if you happen to fall into a frozen lake or stream then you are "up the creek without a paddle" because your survival "expert" never told you what to do if it did happen?[/quote]
Bear tells people to strip down and swim across a icy river to "SAVE TIME" Not that if you FALL in you should do a, b, and c...
[quote]Really? So if you happen to fall into a frozen lake or stream then you are "up the creek without a paddle" because your survival "expert" never told you what to do if it did happen?[/quote]
Bear tells you to strip and SWIM across a near freezing river to "SAVE TIME"!
NOT that if you fall in you should do A, B, and C, to stay alive.
[quote]Bear tells you to strip and SWIM across a near freezing river[/quote]
You missed the point. If you must cross, I repeat If you MUST cross the river because of time or other reasons, this technique may work for. And just because the technique was DEMONSTRATED on a near freezing river, means nothing, its a valid technique in ANY body of water. I got the correct message the first time it was aired, guess you didn't.
Now because, many of you didn't get it, thats why they now try and explain things better for you.
But why do you continue to regurgitate mistakes from the first year when they have made it clear they should have been more open and have now made some corrections??
[quote]You missed the point. If you must cross, I repeat If you MUST cross the river because of time or other reasons,[/quote]
Swimming across a river is NEVER! a good idea, and NOBODY...(but Bear) would ever advise people to swim across a river when lost.
[quote]But why do you continue to regurgitate mistakes from the first year when they have made it clear they should have been more open and have now made some corrections??[/quote]
What I'm referring to is from the NEW season Siberia episode.
Why does he demonstrate these things?? Simple really.... Because most people watching, have never heard of or much less seen demonstrated, how to do things such as remove your trousers to give you additional flotation.
I get it. I have no problem with Bear demonstrating what to do IF you FALL into icy water. (like he has in the past) but when Bear is telling people hes doing it to save time its not the same thing.
Many survival shows have had demonstrations of what to do falling into water even Les Stroud
[quote]Oh... so you HAVE no problem with the demonstrations Bear gives, its just what he says leading up to them... LOL
sounds like nit-picking to me.[/quote]
Well, If Bear (or anyone) said: you NEED to jump into this freezing cold water because it is right in front of us I would have a problem.
If Bear (or anyone) said: IF you were to FALL in, this is what you should do to get out and get dry and warm I would NOT have a problem with it as long as his process was accurate.
Do you see the difference zz? So both scenerios above = Bear jumping into freezing cold water. One is to teach and one is nothing more than a stunt. So, yes, the words spoken before the act matter.
You can call it nitpicking if you want. However, I think you are smarter than that and CAN see the difference, but you just like to argue with certain posters.
[quote]Oh... so you HAVE no problem with the demonstrations Bear gives, its just what he says leading up to them... LOL
sounds like nit-picking to me.[/quote]
no... in another episodes Bear jumped in to icy water to show the effects of hypothermia and how to get out if you fall though the ice on a frozen lake. I had no problem with that demonstration because he didn't say he was going to do it to save time.
Leading people to believe they should risk there life to save "TIME!" is irresponsible.
[quote]Why do you think Bear jumped into the frozen lake in the newest episode (Siberia)? What do you think the point of doing that was?[/quote]
To demonstrate that it IS a survivable situation.
Just knowing that fact, and actually seeing someone get out, would definitely help LESSEN the panic factor for me.
Your ability stay calm and avoid panic is of utmost importance, as this will effect your pulse rate and breathing, and both need to be under control before attempting to get out.
I would rate this demonstration as one MvW most valuable yet. Every Winter people fall thru the ice and die. Seeing this demonstrated FOR REAL may give someone just enough knowledge and courage to get out alive.
[quote]To demonstrate that it IS a survivable situation.[/quote]
I can accept that. Did he say that or is that what you got out of it?
[quote]Just knowing that fact, and actually seeing someone get out, would definitely help LESSEN the panic factor for me.[/quote]
I can accept that as well.
[quote]Your ability stay calm and avoid panic is of utmost importance, as this will effect your pulse rate and breathing, and both need to be under control before attempting to get out.[/quote]
Again, acceptable to me.
[quote]I would rate this demonstration as one MvW most valuable yet. Every Winter people fall thru the ice and die. Seeing this demonstrated FOR REAL may give someone just enough knowledge and courage to get out alive.[/quote]
I can agree for the most part. The one part I don't agree with is that Bear stripped down to his undies and jumped in. When people fall through the ice (your words) they aren't in their undies, they are fully clothed (is that nit picking too). Bear also had wood pre-set up to start a fire and dry clothes to hop into. What value is added by him stripping down first, having dry clothes and a wood pile ready to light? What does this teach the viewer? In your opinion of course.
[quote]Now lets here chuck AND rats take on it. [/quote]
My take is that I agree with you for the most part. I would rather Bear said he was jumping in to demonstrate how to get out (even though he's already done this *with molded hand hold to help him get out*). I would rather he realistically "simulated" someone falling in (key word realistically meaning with clothes and no fire wood pile pre-setup).
Now, If you (zzbum AND seal AND maybe Zarzon *since you are still insisting that I am ratpact too*) can take what I posted and read it with no preconceived notion that I am attacking Bear you just might get a little something out of it. That something should be that while I may be critical of the show I am open to discussion.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: mod_ivy,
[quote]Did he say that or is that what you got out of it?[/quote]
Thats what I got out of it, seemed pretty obvious to me.
[quote]The one part I don't agree with is that Bear stripped down to his undies and jumped in. When people fall through the ice (your words) they aren't in their undies, they are fully clothed (is that nit picking too). Bear also had wood pre-set up to start a fire and dry clothes to hop into. What value is added by him stripping down first, having dry clothes and a wood pile ready to light? What does this teach the viewer? In your opinion of course.[/quote]
Read my above post again. It was an incredible demonstration, that few would be willing to put their body thru. Why have dry cloths and a fire ready? Because if they didn't the chances of him actually dieing were real.
[quote]I would rather Bear said he was jumping in to demonstrate how to get out (even though he's already done this *with molded hand hold to help him get out*). I would rather he realistically "simulated" someone falling in (key word realistically meaning with clothes and no fire wood pile pre-setup).[/quote]
So you want him to jump in fully clothed, no fire, no safety rope, nothing, jump in and try and save yourself bear all for chucksteaks viewing pleasure. So thats the only way you would give him ANY credit for ANY PART of the demonstration?
[quote]Now, If you (zzbum AND seal AND maybe Zarzon *since you are still insisting that I am ratpact too[/quote]
I suggest you drop this issue. It didn't do you any good last time now did it? I said chuck and rat whats your take. And we're still waiting on rats reply.
There are literally tens of thousands of people who do this every year. As ratpack007 mentioned, there are polar bear clubs all over the world, pretty much wherever ice forms on water. Some of these clubs jump into holes in the ice every week. Also in Russia climbing through a hole in the ice is the first part of a spa like treatment. When someone falls through the ice they have between 5 and 10 minutes to get out on their own before they lose the strength to do so. But even after that they can survive for quite a while after that. Bears life is never in any danger, there are many people on hand to make sure everything he does is safe, including a safety crew which almost certainly includes paramedics. zzbum, you should check out the behind the scenes videos that Discovery has on the website. They do a good job of explaining how the show is made and they make it clear that Bear is always in good hands when it comes to his safety.
[quote]zzbum, you should check out the behind the scenes videos that Discovery has on the website.[/quote]
Yes yes I've seen all the videos and I fully underatand the show. I know he has a camera crew, safety people, uses safety gear, and the ability to be flown out in an emergency, did I miss any thing?
My point was. These people say the demonstration wasn't valid unles.
1)He goes in fully clothed. 2)He must remain in those wet clothes after getting out. 3)He then must start a fire from scratch to dry out and warm up. All this in sub zero siberian temps.
My guess at minimum he may have fire in 20 minutes. And hours until cloths would begin to dry. Yes there is REAL danger in trying that stunt.
As I said above, the point of the demonstration was to demonstrate that it IS a survivable situation.
Just knowing that fact, and actually seeing someone get out, would definitely help LESSEN the panic factor.
Your ability stay calm and avoid panic is of utmost importance, as this will effect your pulse rate and breathing, and both need to be under control before attempting to get out.
Seeing this demonstrated FOR REAL may give someone just enough knowledge and courage to get out alive.
[quote] Yes yes I've seen all the videos and I fully underatand the show. I know he has a camera crew, safety people, uses safety gear, and the ability to be flown out in an emergency, did I miss any thing?[/quote]
You missed the fact he is flown out almost every night to sleep in a warm bed. Not an attack, just pointing out the 'obvious'. And as mentioned in other posts, the 'obvious' isn't as obvious to all fans and critics alike.
[quote]My point was. These people say the demonstration wasn't valid unles.
1)He goes in fully clothed. 2)He must remain in those wet clothes after getting out. 3)He then must start a fire from scratch to dry out and warm up. All this in sub zero siberian temps.[/quote]
I didn't say the demonstration wasn't valid. Did I? Someone here said this demonstration was 'obviously' for a point. That point (observed by someone here) was to demonstrate how one would get out of the water if they had fallen in. A simple question I asked was 'how many people fall in in their undies'. Still don't think that has been answered. I won't state the reason it hasn't been answered is 'obvious'.
[quote]My guess at minimum he may have fire in 20 minutes. And hours until cloths would begin to dry. Yes there is REAL danger in trying that stunt.
As I said above, the point of the demonstration was to demonstrate that it IS a survivable situation.
Just knowing that fact, and actually seeing someone get out, would definitely help LESSEN the panic factor.
Your ability stay calm and avoid panic is of utmost importance, as this will effect your pulse rate and breathing, and both need to be under control before attempting to get out.
Seeing this demonstrated FOR REAL may give someone just enough knowledge and courage to get out alive. [/quote]
Just want to point out the demonstration was indeed real. Even though he stripped down (not an option for a person who really falls in). However, getting out is only half the battle, once out there is a whole fight one must go through. I won't go into that, since some people here see the demonstration as a complete success and will never see it any other way. I say this demonstration of a person falling in in their undies and getting out to dry clothes and a fire was without a doubt a full and complete success. I think we can all agree on that.
I see what you’re saying but I must respectfully disagree. Point 1-Being fully clothed would make it much more difficult to get out which would give people a much better idea of what they would actually expect to face. Survivorman did a special about surviving Alaska and he did an excellent demonstration of what would happen if you fell through the ice, Bear could have done something similar with the same safety precautions. Besides, he goes into freezing water in extreme temperatures fully dressed many, many times while making this show, why would this be any different? Point 2- Bear wears modern fabrics that are designed for such extremes, they are water resistant and will provide insulation even when wet. If he were wearing cotton I would agree with you but he’s not. And again, this is something he does many, many times. Point three- you say it would take 20 minutes to start a fire but in the Iceland episode he jumps in fully clothed knowing that it could take 20 minutes to reach the hot springs so I don’t see the difference here either. Why not set a time limit for him to get a fire going, if he can’t do it in time then the crew steps in to help. This way people would see what they will be up against if it were to happen to them. I agree with your statement –“Seeing this demonstrated FOR REAL may give someone just enough knowledge and courage to get out alive.” The problem is that its not REAL in the sense that someone in that situation is not going to have the same advantages that he uses to give the demonstration. I don’t want to get into the specifics of what I do for a living but I will say that it has a high turnover rate and that I am required to train new people very frequently, probably 30 in just the last 12 months alone. One thing I have come to realize is that if I am very blunt and brutally honest right up front the odds that they will make it past the first month are 3 or 4 times better than if I try to sugar coat it and ease them into it. That’s what I did when I first started training and when people would quit they would almost always say that they just didn’t realize it was going to be that bad which made them more prone to just give up. I see this as a very similar situation. Realizing something is much harder than you expected it to be will have a very negative impact on your morale so any advantage you gained initially will quickly be reversed. It was cool to see him do it but its value as a demonstration was negligible. Also I have to agree with the others that telling people to risk their lives to save time is a little goofy, it’s almost like he’s just using that as an excuse to do it. I don’t need to hear any excuses for him to do the things he does and I think most people who enjoy the show would agree so why bother?
