i know that this is not going to change your opinion about bear in any way whatsoever. but why, why do you have to come onto man vs. wild website and bash bear for showing you what you need to know about how to survive? we all know your argument, we have heard it a thousand times. all i am saying, is if you want to bash bear please go and do it somewhere else so people who actually like bears show can have some fun and peace talking about it. yes the show is not one hundred percent real. so what? he is trying to help you and you are just ridiculing him for it? and i bet even half of you havent even set foot out in the REAL outdoors, not central park,for more than a weekend. so do not ridicule bear for things that you are ignorant about and may have misguided feelings for. feelings do not make a good argument in any case. you argue for logic. not whether you think if killing a rattlesnake for survival hurts the snakes feelings, and is slaughtering innocent animals. he is showing you how to survive in those circumstances. so if you are going to continue putting up "This is fake!" posts, please do it on another website. make your own or something. but please. just let people that like the show sit here and talk about it in peace. thank you
Originally posted by MikesWithoutiIkes: i know that this is not going to change your opinion about bear in any way whatsoever. but why, why do you have to come onto man vs. wild website and bash bear for showing you what you need to know about how to survive? we all know your argument, we have heard it a thousand times. all i am saying, is if you want to bash bear please go and do it somewhere else so people who actually like bears show can have some fun and peace talking about it. yes the show is not one hundred percent real. so what? he is trying to help you and you are just ridiculing him for it? and i bet even half of you havent even set foot out in the REAL outdoors, not central park,for more than a weekend. so do not ridicule bear for things that you are ignorant about and may have misguided feelings for. feelings do not make a good argument in any case. you argue for logic. not whether you think if killing a rattlesnake for survival hurts the snakes feelings, and is slaughtering innocent animals. he is showing you how to survive in those circumstances. so if you are going to continue putting up "This is fake!" posts, please do it on another website. make your own or something. but please. just let people that like the show sit here and talk about it in peace. thank you
Of course the complete opposite is true. Bear’s “extreme survival” methods have been ridiculed by most true, knowledgeable survival experts including Ray Mears, Ron Hood and even Les Stroud. Bear’s obvious lack of wilderness survival skills is painfully obvious to anyone that actually knows they are done. All you need to do is watch the show. His shelters are completely inadequate, his traps and snares are poorly set up and placed, his friction fires are obviously staged and “faked”. MvW is not even 10% “real”. It is a fictional, dramatized adventure show with “survival” as its theme.
Ray Mears, Les Stroud, Ron Hood, and Bear are all players in the game of Teaching the public about the outdoors and survival and they all make money doing it. Criticism by these men leveled at each other should be taken with a grain of salt.
Bears shelters are indeed adequate, for a one nite stay which is what the show is geared around. And I for one don't want MvW producers to dedicate an entire show on the many nuances of shelter building.
His traps and snares give ENOUGH information. So if I were inclined to want to become expert on the subject, I would and easily could research it further. So once again your criticism is completely unfounded.
Friction Fires....HaHaHa this is a good one, do you really want to see real time footage of the tedious process of starting a friction fire? Guess you've never tried it yourself. But if you have you should know that it is very difficult and time consuming. However once again, Bear gives ENOUGH information that may just peak some viewers interest into actually researching and learning this skill for them selves.
Once again, more completely unfounded criticism, born from simply not understanding the priorities and time constraints of television producers.
Friction Fires....HaHaHa this is a good one, do you really want to see real time footage of the tedious process of starting a friction fire? Guess you've never tried it yourself. But if you have you should know that it is very difficult and time consuming. However once again, Bear gives ENOUGH information that may just peak some viewers interest into actually researching and learning this skill for them selves.
have misguided feelings for. feelings do not make a good argument in any case. you argue for logic. not whether you think if killing a rattlesnake for survival hurts the snakes feelings, and is slaughtering innocent animals. he is showing you how to survive in those circumstances. so if you are going to continue putting up "This is fake!" posts, please do it on another website. make your own or something. but please. just let people that like the show sit here and talk about it in peace. thank you
Thats a good post mikewithout, and so true. The funny thing is they actually did make their own little Bear Hater site, its called Castaways forum. But since theres so few of them, theres very little conversation there. The regular members there are those that were banned from this site.
From time to time they sneak back in here under false names trying to cause problems or try and recruit members. Actually their easy to spot...always newly registered, their posts consist of only bear bashing, with volumes of links/articles they've dug up in their rather sick obsession with Bear bashing.
I point suspects out when I get a chance, and report them to the mods. The mods usually get it right.
Of course the complete opposite is true. Bear’s “extreme survival” methods have been ridiculed by most true, knowledgeable survival experts including Ray Mears, Ron Hood and even Les Stroud. Bear’s obvious lack of wilderness survival skills is painfully obvious to anyone that actually knows they are done. All you need to do is watch the show. His shelters are completely inadequate, his traps and snares are poorly set up and placed, his friction fires are obviously staged and “faked”. MvW is not even 10% “real”. It is a fictional, dramatized adventure show with “survival” as its theme.
Ray Mears, Les Stroud, Ron Hood, and Bear are all players in the game of Teaching the public about the outdoors and survival and they all make money doing it. Criticism by these men leveled at each other should be taken with a grain of salt.
Bears shelters are indeed adequate, for a one nite stay which is what the show is geared around. And I for one don't want MvW producers to dedicate an entire show on the many nuances of shelter building.
His traps and snares give ENOUGH information. So if I were inclined to want to become expert on the subject, I would and easily could research it further. So once again your criticism is completely unfounded.
Friction Fires....HaHaHa this is a good one, do you really want to see real time footage of the tedious process of starting a friction fire? Guess you've never tried it yourself. But if you have you should know that it is very difficult and time consuming. However once again, Bear gives ENOUGH information that may just peak some viewers interest into actually researching and learning this skill for them selves.
Once again, more completely unfounded criticism, born from simply not understanding the priorities and time constraints of television producers.
I could agree with everything you posted zzbum, except the part on friction fires. Yes they take a long time, but I believe even in the short demonstration Bear gave, his technique was severly flawed. When he did the bow drill in season one he was holding the bow and bearing block completely wrong. And when he did the hand drill (also season one) it showed him start drilling and then cut to a close up of his fire board when he "made fire" and you could see coals on the board. And I means coals like out of a fire. Anyone who has ever tried to hand drill knows that coals (as in multiple) don't form on your fire board. I have no issue with the editing that was done for time. However, I do have an issues with the images they showed portraying what the end result "would" look like.
Speaking of friction fires, myself and others have tried many times to build a friction fire. Without fine steel wool, it is extremely difficult. In fact, none of us were ever able to do it.
I believe that Bear was able to do it using Yucca however. It may have also been a hot, dry day.
Do not ever count on building a friction fire. It takes an expert and almost ideal conditions in my guestimation.
I always found hurricane matches to be the best bet. Wind and rain were no match. Plus you have more time with a strong blaze.
but I believe even in the short demonstration Bear gave, his technique was severly flawed.
I'll take you're word for it regarding the technique. But as I said, anyone wanting to learn how to RELIABLY start a friction fire in the woods is not going to learn it by watching a 5 minute demo on a TV show. Proper technique goes far beyond how the bow is held. It includes choosing the correct type of wood, block, tinder, kindling, and a whole host of other variables.
If bear inspired a few viewers to research, then practice and succeed in starting a friction fire then he has done his job.
For the record, the show did inspire me to research it a bit. I made a half hearted attempt and got a bit of smoke, and that was it. If my life depended on it and I had dry material I think I could do it...maybe.
For now I'll stick with allways carrying at least 3 sources of fire makeing, fatwood, matches, ferro rod, and a Collibre.
For now I'll stick with allways carrying at least 3 sources of fire makeing, fatwood, matches, ferro rod, and a Collibre.
Zebulas, I may be misunderstanding your comment here, but it is recommended that you carry 3 technigues for starting fire and not simply 3 sources.
Such as Matches/Lighter/Flint and Steel and of course any tinder you carry is a bonus. ( I had to look up Fatwood as I never heard of it. May see if I can find some. I use the wax/saw dust fire tinders myself)
Keep practicing the friction fires when you have the time, it does get some easier when you have a good technique worked out. (but it is still hard and time consuming and is my last choice)
You never know if you can do it, until you have done it. It is helpful to get that mental block of "never having done it" out of the way.
Again, I may have misundersttod your comment that I quoted, if that is the case, no offense intended.
My cross country trips in January in the Upper Peninsula are when I expose myself to the most danger. The snow is measured in feet and the temps are seldom above 10deg. On these trips everyone carries multiple methods of fire starting. The order would be first the colibri windproof lighter, second option is windproof matches, and third is to use a ferro rod. My colibri so far has never let me down.
I carry the fatwood because you can whittle it into small tinder, and use bigger pieces for the kindling, it starts very easy and burns long. In the winter most of the wood is damp, so you need to split your dead wood to get into the dry part of the log. Wood is cut with a Sawvivor, and splitting is done by battoning with a large survival knife.
In these conditions I'm not sure if a friction fire is even possible. So I have pretty much ruled it out as an option.
In these conditions I'm not sure if a friction fire is even possible. So I have pretty much ruled it out as an option.
It is possible, it just takes more prep to get the dry stuff to make a fire big/hot enough so that you can then use wet wood.
Though I agree, as long as I have other easier ways to start a fire, I will use those methods. But I do practice friction fire making ever now and then. (maybe once a year or less)
Ok, so what I'm reading is that Bears techniques are done wrong and don't work.
MvW teaches you how to find water, find food, make fire, and find or build shelters. Bear does this using close to nothing in gear (flint, knife, water bottle and cup, occasional cording).
I see nothing done absolutely wrong. Maybe it's not the way you would do it. But if you have the will to survive these techniques can work.
Of course the complete opposite is true. Bear’s “extreme survival” methods have been ridiculed by most true, knowledgeable survival experts including Ray Mears, Ron Hood and even Les Stroud. Bear’s obvious lack of wilderness survival skills is painfully obvious to anyone that actually knows they are done. All you need to do is watch the show. His shelters are completely inadequate, his traps and snares are poorly set up and placed, his friction fires are obviously staged and “faked”. MvW is not even 10% “real”. It is a fictional, dramatized adventure show with “survival” as its theme.
Ray Mears, Les Stroud, Ron Hood, and Bear are all players in the game of Teaching the public about the outdoors and survival and they all make money doing it. Criticism by these men leveled at each other should be taken with a grain of salt.
Bears shelters are indeed adequate, for a one nite stay which is what the show is geared around. And I for one don't want MvW producers to dedicate an entire show on the many nuances of shelter building.
His traps and snares give ENOUGH information. So if I were inclined to want to become expert on the subject, I would and easily could research it further. So once again your criticism is completely unfounded.
Friction Fires....HaHaHa this is a good one, do you really want to see real time footage of the tedious process of starting a friction fire? Guess you've never tried it yourself. But if you have you should know that it is very difficult and time consuming. However once again, Bear gives ENOUGH information that may just peak some viewers interest into actually researching and learning this skill for them selves.
Once again, more completely unfounded criticism, born from simply not understanding the priorities and time constraints of television producers.
Zebulas, you are correct. You have to take these shows with a grain of salt.
If you want to be a true survivor: Don't tell anyone where you are going, drive to a remote location you know nothing about and get good and lost. Bring nothing with you except your clothes. Hang around for a week. Then make it to civilization alive.
None of these "survival show" guys are doing this "for real". They are not in any danger. Watch the show and enjoy it for what it's worth.
Originally posted by masterskyjacker: Ok, so what I'm reading is that Bears techniques are done wrong and don't work.
MvW teaches you how to find water, find food, make fire, and find or build shelters. Bear does this using close to nothing in gear (flint, knife, water bottle and cup, occasional cording).
I see nothing done absolutely wrong. Maybe it's not the way you would do it. But if you have the will to survive these techniques can work.
First, when it comes to technique, there really is no substitute than proper technique when it comes to friction fires. So if Bear is showing it wrong and he gets fire it leads to teh impresstion that doing it wrong still works. For many things there isn't a right or wrong way, but when it comes to friction fires there isn't really much wiggle room. If you have watched his attempts of makeing friction fires and you saw nothing wrong, then I would suggest you either learn from a reputable source or read up on it and attempt it on your own.
I agree with zebulas on the note that if he has inspired anyone to get out and try or learn, then it's good. I know we don't like to compair shows, but Les Stroud generally gives you an idea if things take time. He would show you the first attempt ot make fire then edit in the time it was taking. Even putting a time stamp on the screen to show the viewer how long it took him (and experienced friction fire maker) to actually get a fire going. If it take a guy like Les 20, 30 and 40 minutes or more how long would it take an inexperienced person to do it?
Now how long would it take and inexperienced person using incorrect technique?
Just to be clear..are you blaming Bear for not teaching viewers how to start a friction fire correctly??
Its not Bear who decides to devote only 5 minutes to friction fire. Its the producers that feel they would loose their audience were they to get into ad nausium details like.
How to gather and prepare your tinder bundle. How to select the proper spindle, its length its width and type of wood. Choosing the correct fire board, and how to cut the groove and the notch. Exactly how to position your body while working the spindle the bow or hand drill.
The details go on and on.
The producers know that most viewers are not interested in hearing an hour long tutorial on friction fire. You and I might but were not most viewers. So don't blame Bear for it.
The only people that will successfully start a friction fire in a real survival situation, are those that have researched it and have devoted time and effort into practicing it.
Let's face it. Common sense is not so common. No matter how many times you point out the obvious, people will still whine, complain and criticize. Yet, they'll still continue to watch the show.
I agree with you 100%. I've actually seen the friction fire method in practice and found quite interesting. Maybe DC could add web links for instructions for this types of survival methods.
There will always be haters, in every walks of life. I am a big Bear fan. I'm more of a Bear fan than a Man Vs. Wild fan, to clarify. However, I do enjoy the show a lot despite it's criticisms and obvious flaws. That being said, I think Discovery, Bear, and the producers of the show will continue to improve the show to make it "hater" proof. I mentioned in the boa thread that Bear is a very smart and charismatic person. If they can maintain that image while improving upon the actual survival techniques he demonstrates and continue to improve how they depict certain situations, the show will continue to a success.
There will always be haters, in every walks of life. I am a big Bear fan. I'm more of a Bear fan than a Man Vs. Wild fan, to clarify. However, I do enjoy the show a lot despite it's criticisms and obvious flaws. That being said, I think Discovery, Bear, and the producers of the show will continue to improve the show to make it "hater" proof. I mentioned in the boa thread that Bear is a very smart and charismatic person. If they can maintain that image while improving upon the actual survival techniques he demonstrates and continue to improve how they depict certain situations, the show will continue to a success.
Hater Proof...thats funny. I agree BTW, But I do get the impression that for some, Bear the man IS their target.
But Why? ...is it that, he is too Cool, too good looking??, and too well liked by the Ladies??...LOL.. yah probably all of the above.
Talking about friction fire, what kind of materials do you need and what kind of techinque. I think someone should do a youtube video uncut (this would obviously take several 10 minute segments). I would like to know so I can practice in my backyard to show my WIlderness Survival Merit Badge students for this up and coming summer.
Steps to Make a Bow Drill: The drill is cut from a straight, dry piece of hardwood such as ash, birch, hickory, maple or oak. Avoid gummy or resinous woods. It should be about 15 in long, 2 in thick, and as round and straight as possible to minimize wobbling during rotation. Round on end and carve the other to a sharp point.
Use another piece of hardwood to make the handle for the drill. The handle should be about 3 in wide by 6 in long by 2 in thick, and the edges should be smooth and fit comfortably in your hand. Carve a hole in the center of the handle about ¼ in deep that the rounded edge of the drill can fit into. The addition of a little sand will help smooth out the edges of the hole.
Choose a piece of softwood such as cottonwood, pine, or poplar about 6 in wide by 12 to 18 in long by 1 in thick for the fireboard. On one of the long sides of the board, well towards the end, cut a v-shaped notch about ½ deep into the center of the board. Then dig out a small hole about 1/8 in, or less, from tip of notch for the drill point to fit into.
The bow is made from a green branch of springy wood such as cedar, mulberry, or willow or from a young sapling. The bow should ideally be about 2 feet long and 1 inch thick. Tie a bowstring, about 3/8 in wide to the ends of the bow. The bowstring can be any type of sturdy cord such as a boot lace or natural cordage made from cattail leaves.
I would like to know so I can practice in my backyard to show my WIlderness Survival Merit Badge students for this up and coming summer.
I'll leave you to research how to identify trees and such, thats part of what a trainer has to do. Its always good to ask for some information, but there may not always be someone around to ask when you need to know.
Its always best to be as prepared as possible when teaching a period of instruction.
Believe me. I learned the hard way about not being fully prepared for a class I had to teach on NEO Ops, back in the day.
I was never unprepared again.
Research, Read, Practice and keep references on hand.
Don't just practice the fire making, practice giving your class to someone in your family or some friends, etc.
Let them critique you on how you did, and work to improve any deficiencies.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I only have 45-50 minutes with these guys
with all my posts so far from this year I will wander off: Today its the fact that you FM and me registered on the 13th day of some month (the same day im not superstitious about the number 13. i think the human brain is a powerful organ that can make u think and hear and experience certain things that are there but actually it serves as either a defense mechanism or will 'mess u up')
HAIL OTTARI and go Blue Ridge Mountain Council (woot)
I would like to know so I can practice in my backyard to show my WIlderness Survival Merit Badge students for this up and coming summer.
If I may make some suggestions- First as to the materials, they need to be totally dry. I know, duh, but you’d be surprised how many people make this mistake. Sometimes you may have to split larger pieces of dead wood to get to the dry stuff in the middle. As for the types of wood to use, you’ll have to figure out what works best for you through trail and error. It seems like what works well for some, others can’t get to work at all. Here’s what you can do to simplify the process- gather a selection of baseboards and spindles from the types of wood available in your area. The spindles should be about 6 inches long; pointed at one end with the other end whittled down so that it will fit in the chuck of a drill (1/2” cordless works best). The baseboards should have several divots (one for each type of spindle) spaced several inches apart, towards the center of the board and without the notch. I think you know where I’m going with this. Try each spindle with each base board (if you’ve got more than 3 options you’ll want a piece of paper to keep notes). Ignore the smoke; you’ll almost certainly get that with the power drill no matter what types of wood you’re using. What you’re looking for is charred “dust” that will be tossed out by the spindle and gather in a little circular pile around it; this dust is what collects in the notch and forms the coal. The most dust produced with the least effort is your best combination.
I would also recommend that you use the power drill to get a coal going a few times so you can practice how to get it transferred to your tinder bundle and to blow it into flames. There’s nothing more frustrating than to work your back side off to get that little glowing ember for the first time only to watch it go out because your tinder wasn’t properly prepared. When teaching this skill to others we always start out using a fire piston with charred cloth. This way our students can get some practice starting a fire with the glowing ember before they go through all of the effort to produce one with the bow and drill.
One last thing about materials, choosing the proper cordage can make the task a lot easier. I’ve always found that natural materials work better for me. Synthetic cords often have more slip than grip and if your cord is slipping on the spindle you’re just wasting energy. You can compensate a little by carving flat spaces all the way around the spindle to give the cord some extra grip. Or you can just demonstrate with the Egyptian bow and drill which is a little safer for novices to learn with; I’ve seen the bow and drill transform into the bow and arrow when attempted by people for the first time
None of these "survival show" guys are doing this "for real". They are not in any danger. Watch the show and enjoy it for what it's worth
Master I agree "take these shows with a grain of salt". It should be obvious that
Regarding the danger and risk Bear exposes himself to, for the show.... Many have said that "Bear is never in any REAL danger". They have claimed that since he has crew around him his stunts are all for show and really carry little if any risk.
If you read about the details of his recent injury here its easy to imagine what would have happened were his injury's more severe. The remote locations some of the shows are shot in make the risk very high.
I have no doubts that Mr. Grylls knows how to survive. In fact, if I were stuck out in the wilderness, I would probably want his help if I could get it. The problem with the show is not Bear, although he takes the brunt of the hate because he is the face of the show.
The problem is the lackluster storytelling, editing, and overall presentation of the show, most of which are probably completely out of his control. Mr. Grylls is often seen running, climbing, and doing other unsafe stunts. What's going to happen when a fan of MvW gets lost out in woods and gets severely injured or even killed trying to climb up a rock face, or cliff jump into what turns out to be knee deep water because he thought that was a legitimate survival technique?
If the purpose of the show is to show off the survival expertise of a single man, the I say it performs excellently. However, if the purpose is to teach legitimate, useable survival skills to the average everyday person, then I think the show needs to be re-thought and it should include more specific warnings and disclaimers saying that there are certain things Mr. Grylls does that should be attempted by an unqualified person.
The purpose of forums is function as places where people can vote their opinion, they are not to be confused with of editorial content. In car discussion forums, for example, people do love their cars, yet they tend to complain when their busted vehicle malfunctions.
I personally do not care one or the other when the situations are “simulated” in the show. Many readers concerns seem to be about animal rights. Nevertheless many people also do realize where hamburgers come from and that domestic animals rarely die of old age. Killing wild animals is definitive a no-no, because it would break several federal laws (wild animals are often protected).
Yet still; each time Bear sees water he feels compelled to take a swim with clothes on (I used to have a do like that). Wet clothes lose insulation and you will freeze to death or otherwise they are just a real pain to dry (takes 24h). The guy conjures fire from this air, yet he does not build campfire or proper shelter. And going out to cold Norwegian sea with sinking raft (to stranded on deserted island) is borderline suicidal regardless of qualifications.
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If the purpose of the show is to show off the survival expertise of a single man, the I say it performs excellently.
I would have to disagree with this entirely. When I watch the show I see things that I would expect someone with very little wilderness or survival knowledge to attempt. I don’t know much about survival skills specifically but I have spent a lot of time in the wilderness and I can’t imagine having as hard a time as Bear seems to on the show. I don’t know what his skills are because they certainly aren’t demonstrated but it’s pretty clear that the producers want things to seem as difficult as possible. Probably to add drama and excitement to the program. I would expect that if Bear Grylls were left on his own in an actual survival situation he would do things very differently and not struggle nearly as much. If you’ve ever watched Ray Mears, he makes survival look like a cozy vacation. That is what you’d expect from a survival expert not a constant battle against everything around you.
I am not here to bash bear, but whoever does his research and writes his scripts! I was just watching the episode where he goes to my state of Florida. He makes a lot of wrong statements about alligators.
First he says that the state of Florida released 60,000 alligators last year to encourage hunting. That is not true at all. The state never releases alligators, however they may relocate alligators from populated areas. Also, the state does not encourage hunting, but only allows it for population control. So why would we add alligators to the population when there are already too many!
Second he says that hunters in Florida killed 30,000 alligators in 2007, that can’t happen legally because we only issue permits to kill only 8,000 per year. You have to have a license to hunt here and we only issue 4,000 permits and each hunter can only kill 2 alligators per year. Also the state would never allow 30,000 to be killed since the Alligator is still on the SPECIES OF SPECIAL CONCERN list! This brings up another point, Bear kills a alligator in this episode, to do so he must have been licensed to do so and it would have to be in season, unless it was a farm raised alligator which it probably was because a wild alligator would have ran away from him.
They’re plenty of other issues I have with this program, I will leave them alone for now.
This is a free and open forum. I'm a fan of bear myself but i'm open to people coming out and bashing bear. Thats the Rule. I like Bear and will type a million good things about bear. If You Dont Like Bear You Come And Type all the crap you can think off about bear. So MikesWithoutiIkes [Content Edited] and should really consider duct-taping your lips with Super-adhesive Duct-tape!
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Why on Earth would bear go down into a cave in Alabama sooo deep as to not be able to get back out the way he went in AND to let his torch get doused in the water at the bottom?? THEN he keeps on going with no light looking for another entrance! If ANYONE else tried to do this in reality they would be killed, never to be found. So what is Bear trying to show us here? Not much, as this show is really geared towards the entertainment factor and not really practical step by step careful planning that real survival takes. If lost people did half the things Bear does on this show, there would be a LOT more fatalities.
