I just saw the episode of Melanie in Valley something or something Valley, CA, who worked with her mother to flip a home. Does anyone know what happened with that place?
My real reason for writing, though, is to ask for information about home inspections. I'm curious: would an inspector necessarily know that an addition was built sans permit? What kind of liability does the seller have when a home reno is inferior/in violation of code, etc.?
I dunno, but I think she has more elsewhere than brains and could possibly face getting sued for her closet room addition (without a permit). THe first contractor had great ideas, Kirsten had great ideas....but she did not listen. The quality was not there..for a $980,000 house you need to step it up a notch.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: kim g,
1st thing is that the State and possibly even the county the home is located in make a difference.
Each state has differnt real estate laws. California leads the way when it comes to seller disclosure obligations but this is a big country and it's really important to know exactly what the rules and regulations are in each instance.
As for inspectors knowing that an addition is built w/ or without permit. They usually can't tell you that. What they can do is point out that an addition is or is not to code. Some inspectors may suggest you should be sure to pull the permits to make certain that permits exist but that actually isn't considered their job. Visual Code violations are in their scope.
Also, try to keep in mind that Home Inspectors if not licensed General contractors may not have the expertise to disclose as much as one that isn't. Even then, Home inspectors all have a C.Y.A. document for their own protection that you must sign prior to having an inspection done. This usually discloses that the inspection is simply visual and if you have additonal concerns you should contact and possibly hire the appropriate professional.
Some additional inspectors to have include :
Geologist - if home is on a hill, landfill, or other reasons.
Chimney Company- Home inspectors can only see the outside and just what is visually exposed which often is not enough for a proper evaluation. Chimney specialists will seal the chimney and put a smoke bomb inside to see if there are leaks. Also they drop or raise a camera for viewing the parging and anything else they need to see.
Plummers- My personal recommendation is to always hire a plummer to inspect the plumming and especially to drop a camera down to view and breaks and the extent of rust and root damage. ** Make certain that the camera is dropped down the clean-out to view the main to the end of the property and to the street connection if at all possible. Main lines are expensive and not within the scope of a Home Inspector.
As far as liability the seller has when a renovation is inferior. Well, if you are in California as an example there is a document called a "Real Estate Transfer Disclosure Statement". This has existed since the 80's and it is a document where the seller is required by law to disclose to the buyer the condition of the entire property to the best of their knowledge.
THIS INCLUDES DETAILS OF ANY RENOVATIONS YOU DO!!!!! This also includes pet stains, pet odors, etc.. So, some people like to try to hide things like stains in the flooring or wall but if you get caught their is no limitation on the amount of time a buyer can come back to you with a law suit. Fraud has not statute of limitations!
** Violations of code are generally picked up in inspections but some may not be. Having an inspection does not in any way remove a sellers obligation to disclose. It is completely seperate.
** Also, if a home has an addition that is noticed by the appraiser or simply has more square footage than is on public record they should ask for a copy of all the permits.
Generally speaking, if square footage isn't permitted then it is not insurable and doesn't count for appraisal purposes. Also, if there is property damage due to illegal additions or unpermitted work your home insurance can be voided depending upon your policy.
Home Inspectors should be able to identify if additions and work done on a house are to "code" but not necessarily if they are permited.
Permits should always be pulled from public records when purchasing a home. No exceptions on that.
Home inspectors come in a variety of quality and services offered. There are schools that spit out home inspectors and there are licensed General Contractors that do home inspection. Both can do a good job and both can miss things.
Home inspection services have lengthly C.Y.A. limits of liability contracts you have to sign prior to an inspection. They disclose to you that certain things are not covered and that they are a service only not an insurance policy.
Additional inspections that I recommend on every property are:
Geological if on a hillside, landfill or any other concerns. Always hire your own and never except one from a previous party to save money.
Plummer- in addition to a general visual have them drop a camera down the clean out to view the main out to the street and if possible to the street connection. They can see root damage, breakage sometimes and narrowing of the pipe.** I do this on every home I purchase and it has saved me thousands of dollars.
Chimney Service. -They will seal the chimney and set off a smoke bomb to check for leaks. They also have cameras they can raise or lower to view the inside.
As far as seller liability. It varies from state to state and even county to county in some states.
Calif. leads the way in seller required disclosures since the 1980's. Each property sale requires a "Real Estate Transfer Disclosure Statement" This document requires the seller and realtor if there is one to disclose the condition of the property to the best of their knowledge.
So, if you did renovations or discovered anything else you are obligated legaly to disclose it. Since you have intimate knowledge of how the renovations were done you must disclose that if pertinant. Even things like pet stains and smells. To not do so is fraud. Fruad has no statute of limitations so the buyer can come after you as long as you are breathing if the issue warrants it.
* An appraiser will usually ask for a copy of permits if the square footage doesn't match the tax assessors info or if a room looks like it may be an addition.
In Pennsylavania. You can go back to the seller for up to 7 years after the date of purchass. I have made many posts on the subject across many threads. Like in some of the homes Mike does. Like the guy with the basmenet where the HVAC guy chopped through weight bering strucure to run flex lines. That HVAC guy that did the work is liable. For all repairs needed to correct the problem. Wether it be a liscenced HVAC guy of a mr fixerupper home owner did it himself. If you can prove it was like that when you bought you home ( when the work was done is moot ) The seller is ON THE HOOK !! Believe it I have testifyed and documented quite a few that I have had to repair.
the costs will vary some as each home and part of the country is different. Some homes need more inspected and others less.
For a basic home inspection the rates range from $300 to $500. Also, try to remember that home inspectors don't insure you will have no issues. I've seen very good home inspectors miss some things.
In a busy market it could actually be difficult to get a home inspector of your choice out to the property in time to meet your physical inspection contingency date. Most times you won't have more than 7 to 10 days to complete your inspections and respond to the seller in writing with any concerns addressed.
For a Chimney inspection that will be about $200-$300 on average. Of course if there are several fireplaces that could cost more.
For a plummer to drop a camera down to view the main line to the street figure $150-$200.
For a Geological inspection that is most definitely going to depend on the area and the property to be inspected. There are different type of geological reports. A basic visual is far less expensive and less extensive than a if the soils testing is done. The cost of this can range from $450 for a visual to $1500 or even much more for a full geological.
Also, if the property is not connected to a sewer and it's on septic you want to have that inspected by a competent person. Some home inspecters are actually good at inspecting them and some quite frankly stink at it. No pun intended.
Lastly, Pool inspections. If the property has a pool and you have any reason at all to suspect issues such as leakage or faulty pool equiptment then once again hire your own pool service inspector. Generally less than $100
Pest Control - in other words a Termite company. In most states it is customary for the seller to pay for a termite report and to fix any termite or dryrot damage. This is usually termed as "section 1 of a termite report. Section 2 is preventative and usually the responsibility of the buyer.
In most areas of the country I would not buy a home without a Termite report being done and requiring my approval prior to close of escrow. You don't want a $5K to $50K problem you didn't know about ahead of time.
I know all these things add up but remember that not finding existing issues can cost you 10's of thousands of dollars. Possibly even more depending on the home.
A point re. some of these inspections--it may pay you to do them yourself when you are a SELLER prior to putting a home on the market.
When we bought our home, negotiated the deal, and THEN had the routine pest inspection done, there was damage found and we wound up negotiating a compromise adjustment for the seller to do what they must here--fix it. At the time and now I thought/think--wow, if --I-- had been the seller and KNEW that expense was going to come due, I might have negotiated a higher price up front and/or had the work done cheaper first so that I wouldn't have to backtrack and not know at the time of sale.
Whether you plan on doing the repairs OR giving an allowance to a buyer to do them, KNOWING before you are into negotiations/selling helps you deal with more strength and is a very worthwhile expense in the sales process.
ALSO...after watching too many shows about "new" homes that have defects and where builders stall repairs to run out the clock on new home warranties, I don't think I'd even buy a brand NEW home without the purchase being subject to an inspection AND with a very, very LONG warranty period. This is especially important because you may find a neighbor in a new tract with a problem that "shows" first in their house but that is common to the construction of ALL the homes and that may only crop up in YOUR house when its too late to get compensation or repair.
speaking of more elsewhere, i was watching blind date and she was on it...and hanging out all over the place like she was on property ladder. i think perhaps this girl had no idea what she was doing and just wanted an expensive reason to be on tv (it will really help my career!). the blind date episode was shot in jamaica, so perhaps she used her "money" for an expensive trip. All I know is that if i bought that house then saw the show, i would sue her!
EDIT: i bet this girl tried out for Flavor Flav's or Bret Michael's "love" show! come on, you know she did!
OMG! she was on paradise hotel!!! the horrible fox reality show a few years back where they put "beautiful people" in a resort in hopes that they would have sex with each other!!! hilarious! yeah, being on property ladder was to "help her career!" i wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't her mother but the person who really bought the house...and they hired her as a consultant or something. or, perhaps the show is somewhat scripted. who knows!
I watched it on Tivo and the last bit was cut off. Does anyone know what she ended up selling it for or if she sold it? Thanks! I just get so curious cuz I watch the entire thing and then anticipate the end with the selling details, and boom, it's all over!
