Most of your "reality" Flip This House type shows feature men who don't know a hammer from their rear end. The woman flippers are even more unrealistic.

These people buy houses, rip apart a few things and find they have termite or carpenter ant infestation and/or damage after the fact. Can you say the words HOME INSPECTION?

ANd selling a home at an open house....any realtor worth his commission will tell you that open houses are used by realtors to generate buyer leads or unearth new listing clients....they don't sell houses.

And selling a house on the first open house? Yea, right....don't you wish.

If anyone is watching these show thinking they can learn something on The Learning Channel, think again. It's a lot of misinformation.

I can't agree with you more. I watched tonite's episode re. the 2 brothers & the condo in Palm Springs, where I live, and I about fell off my seat laughing; and then I almost threw a pillow @ the set watching them whine and snivel their way thru the show. I have been hi-end country club HOA manager for over 20 years here in desert & I know the property they bought into. But, the fact that they had no clue as how to do the work & demanded to make a $70000. profit was just silly. They hired their friends & turned on them over MONEY, then had to hire people to do the work because they didn't know which end of the paint brush to use. I love TLC and these types of channels, but to watch incompent people (men this time) was the end. All they did was whine and complain about how hard it was on them, how tired they were, how far it was to drive from LA to PS, etc. - 1st, they knew how far LA is from PS - earthquakes haven't moved it yet, 2nd, why buy a 3rd property knowing you couldn't afford it, 3rd, why would you want to put in a hydraulic sushi bar (what were they thinking). The refrigerator problem was just too much - if they had listened to the woman they would not have had 3 different units to return - and God forbid they used a tape measure. People need to understand that Palm Springs is not the mecca it once was -it has fallen on hard times and isn't the place it was before & won't be for many years. The in places now are El Paseo, The River and places in Rancho Mirage, Indian Wells & Palm Desert. I have to admit that I will not watch this program any more - tonight was the final blow to my senses and brain cells.

DragginVicky and Jeffy-
Talk about whining and complaining! Read your posts! What happened in PS is typical for first timers! No skills, no thought of pricing labor and materials. This show shows what kind of people are stepping out and doing it, with confidence in themselves. Not knowing this is a complicated beast with many aspects to timelines and trade orchestration. I lived in trabuco Canyon CAlif for many eyears, bought low and sold when it was very high. Then I took my money to an under valued state and cleaned up. My Calif home sold within 2 hours of the open house with multiple offers above my price, so ya, Jeff it happens! Sorry to see such negative attitudes with such a positive show!

I do agree that Realtors do not hold open houses to sell homes, they are lead generating tools. However, if the flippers are heeding Kristen's advice to sell 3% below market value and they have bought in a popular area of their city, it is possible to sell at the open house becasue you have a high-demand house and a below-market price. I think this is her best advice becasue carrying costs can quickly add up to more than the 3% below market you are forfeiting. And it wouldn't be entertaining if the shows featured pro flippers who knew exactly what they were doing. They are showing that flipping is not such easy money.

I've gotten really frustrated watching a lot of the episodes. Most of the flippers - who are relatively new to it - will not listen to Kirsten. That absolutely blows my mind, since she has years of experience. It's not as easy as people think it is. If you live in an area where prices are already inflated, your margin is not going to be that high either. What kills me is these people want to overprice their properties and sell it the day of the open house. And they don't want to list with a realtor who could find them a buyer a lot more quickly than they can! The whole point of flipping is knowing your house is competing with every other house in that neighborhood. So you have to offer more for less money if you want a quick sale.

I listed my house for sale and had an open house the week after listing. A person that came to it bought it, nine days after listing. And this just happened in March, not years ago.
Guess lightning does strike sometimes,you naysayers!

Jeff0710 and Dragginvicky have a few points, but the problem isn't the show, in my opinion. It's a reality show *about flipping* similarly to how "The Bachelor" is (was?) a reality show *about relationships*. The idea is entertainment, after all.

I think the information/learning part comes mostly from a) what Kirsten advises, and b) what many or most of the portrayed flippers *don't* do.

Open Houses are not *only* for generating buyer leads-- though I concede that is probably a core motivation for a realtor to do them. It also demonstrates to the selling client that the realtor is working, and it does expose the property to a larger number of eyes.

I have purchased a primary residence as a result of an open house, so as Flipncrazy says, it does happen. However, it's true it isn't as automatic as editing, etc, might make it appear.

I just watched the Simi Valley couple--my first exposure to this show. My wife and I were ROOTING for them to LOSE money by the end of it, they were so amazingly SMUG and foolish. Frankly, while I admire Kirsten's knowledge, I don't think she was firm and forthright enough re. a/c, realtors, etc. etc. Somebody should tell these people when they're being JERKS and then, having been told, they can be allowed to continue to do so (which they will do, because, of course, they're JERKS!)

RE not using a Realtor--I don't know about the rest of the country, but here in Southern California I'd estimate that 80% of all BUYERS get a BUYERS AGENT to help them shop for a home and negotiate in this red-hot market. That is a MAJOR reason NOT to go the "for sale by owner" route, because PRO agents working for BUYERS would quite naturally avoid amateur sellers like the plague they are because of the added headaches of working with them. They would NOT bring their clients to see such homes and, if the buyers found 'em on their own, a pro agent would advise them against even starting to look for that same reason. I like a bargain as much as the next person, but it seems to me that commissioned sales of any kind are the BEST bargain because they only get paid IF AND WHEN they PRODUCE! The expenses, not to mention the time and expertise, are on THEM.

Ditto amateur-night contractors and renovators. Do what you KNOW how to do, and know what you DONT know. There are ways to save, but being STUPID and ARROGANT aren't among them.

quote:

Originally posted by flipncrazy:
DragginVicky and Jeffy-
Talk about whining and complaining! Read your posts! What happened in PS is typical for first timers! No skills, no thought of pricing labor and materials. This show shows what kind of people are stepping out and doing it, with confidence in themselves. Not knowing this is a complicated beast with many aspects to timelines and trade orchestra

tion. I lived in trabuco Canyon CAlif for many eyears, bought low and sold when it was very high. Then I took my money to an under valued state and cleaned up. My Calif home sold within 2 hours of the open house with multiple offers above my price, so ya, Jeff it happens! Sorry to see such negative attitudes with such a positive show!

My thoughts are the same ... good for them for taking the "leap" I could not agree with this more! This site is a mess no on EVER said a good thing and if they do it is very rare - funny thing is I am sure those folks dont have a clue about doing a home nor would they have the _______ to try! I sold a home in Texas in about two hours at the open house with two buyers wanting me to tell me the number! So it happens - maybe not everyday but it happens!

quote:

Originally posted by victory6:
I just watched the Simi Valley couple--my first exposure to this show. My wife and I were ROOTING for them to LOSE money by the end of it, they were so amazingly SMUG and foolish. Frankly, while I admire Kirsten's knowledge, I don't think she was firm and forthright enough re. a/c, realtors, etc. etc. Somebody should tell these people when they're being JERKS and then, having been told, they can be allowed to continue to do so (which they will do, because, of course, they're JERKS!)

RE not using a Realtor--I don't know about the rest of the country, but here in Southern California I'd estimate that 80% of all BUYERS get a BUYERS AGENT to help them shop for a home and negotiate in this red-hot market. That is a MAJOR reason NOT to go the "for sale by owner" route, because PRO agents working for BUYERS would quite naturally avoid amateur sellers like the plague they are because of the added headaches of working with them. They would NOT bring their clients to see such homes and, if the buyers found 'em on their own, a pro agent would advise them against even starting to look for that same reason. I like a bargain as much as the next person, but it seems to me that commissioned sales of any kind are the BEST bargain because they only get paid IF AND WHEN they PRODUCE! The expenses, not to mention the time and expertise, are on THEM.

Ditto amateur-night contractors and renovators. Do what you KNOW how to do, and know what you DONT know. There are ways to save, but being STUPID and ARROGANT aren't among them.

I read this and stopped at the first few words ... forget everything else that was said To really want someone to fail - even worst is to have the nerve to type it here ... how would you like it if someone wanted or wished you to fail?!
Thats so ugly to say .. what a sad person you and your wife must be! Sad . . . . .

Hey, you reap what you sow. These people IGNORE expert advice, DENY reality, and are full of their own egos and totally incompetent. The reality of the marketplace is that they DESERVE to fail. I wonder if you'd be so high-and-mighty if you were a BUYER of a house so dangerously and incompetently renovated? These people, because of their egos and incompetence, are in effect SWINDLERS selling this house to anyone on this basis. They deserve to FAIL. Saying so is only dealing with reality. You might try that sometime.

Anyone that buys a house these days without an inspection is a dim bulb and shouldn't be surprised if they get a bum deal. I did it once years ago and was very lucky in that the house was in good shape with no unseen problems. Would NEVER do that again!

I am also amazed that the majority of these flippers just figure a budget without even talking to an electrician, plumber, AC people or even going to check prices at Lowes or Home Depot.

I think it's great that they take on the huge project of flipping, but am always surprised that they end up making a profit when they almost always blow their budget to smitherines!

quote:

Originally posted by victory6:
Hey, you reap what you sow. These people IGNORE expert advice, DENY reality, and are full of their own egos and totally incompetent. The reality of the marketplace is that they DESERVE to fail. I wonder if you'd be so high-and-mighty if you were a BUYER of a house so dangerously and incompetently renovated? These people, because of their egos and incompetence, are in effect SWINDLERS selling this house to anyone on this basis. They deserve to FAIL. Saying so is only dealing with reality. You might try that sometime.

First, poor buyer? Buyers have so many inspections done on the houses they buy now - Please! .... I am sure these - ALL OF THESE PROPERTY INVESTORS- on this show do lots of things that dont even make it to the show ... everyone is so ready to rip people up ... and they are not showing the whole picture - on a drama show like these realities - If they are so incompetent would they still make alot of money - Food for Thought I would say.... if they did that bad of a job then I am sure if the home inspector they hired would have advised them of the issues and they would have either backed out or ask the sellers to make repairs or give them a seller credit ...

2nd - "ammused" Texana that they did not go to home depot for a quote - but do "assume" that from viewing a one hour show with you know that from watching a drama show .... just like your other comment on the "drainage" issue - how do you know those folks dont disc. something! Dont assume ...
and never wish ill will on someone - it always comes back .... they made profits because the show makes you think they know nothing - hello wake up! Everyone thinks poor buyer - but guess what thats what home inspections are far ... seller cant just cover something up without a home inspector finding it ..

I am not trying to pick a fight here it is just that I dont think you or we should really think we know the entire story on a one hour show they I am sure filmed these people for weeks.

Don't be so sure that all these flippers are making money. Often times the home hasn't sold when the show airs, and I've seen some recent episodes where they look back 6-12 months later, and the homes still haven't sold.

Also, on most of the shows with problems that possibly could have been caught ahead of time with an inspection, the homeowner has admitted on-air that they didn't have an inspection.

quote:

Originally posted by house1234:
[QUOTE] Everyone thinks poor buyer - but guess what thats what home inspections are far ... seller cant just cover something up without a home inspector finding it ..

House...may I suggest you watch a few other shows before you jump to this conclusion? First of all, since so many of these flippers themselves buy WITHOUT an inspection, why should you presume other buyers are any different? Second, presuming that an inspection is COMPETENT is a leap of faith. Have you ever watched "Holmes On Homes"??? You should. Mike Holmes is a very professional contractor in Toronto whose show is about finding and fixing bad work done by contractors--pro's, not flipper amateurs--that is not only unsightly but downright DEADLY dangerous (electrical fire potential, bad venting of sewer and/or garage gasses that can be toxic, structural weaknesses that could cause collapse, etc. etc.) and in MANY OF HIS SHOWS the homeowner had a home inspection first--and was told "Oh, that crack's just cosmetic--plaster and paint and it's good as new" instead of examining and disclosing the underlying problems which cost TENS OF THOUSANDS to repair properly later...not counting injuries they cause.

Another issue is this: What is your recourse if an inspector is wrong or incomplete? ZERO. You are buying an OPINION! There is no legal recourse if that OPINION is wrong unless you can prove some sort of collusion with the seller or other deliberate conspiracy. But frankly, when we see the flippers on these shows saying "I'm not gonna live here, just cover it up." on CAMERA, any BUYER who then finds out about this has one hell of a case against that flipper, whether they got an inspection or not.

You may believe in an ultimately laissez-faire world of caveat emptor rules, but in the real world there are laws re. disclosures, building codes, and safety, let alone fraud, that all apply to flippers and the people some of them rip off. Pretending that any old "inspector" is the be-all and end-all solution to such problems is naive at best, and deadly at worst.

Yes Victor you know everything .... I get it!


Let me start by saying ..I watch alot of flip shows all of them I bet ... and agree some of them look like the idots they may or maynot be! So when I talk I dont take up for them all just some ... these are my thoughts ..

The flippers saying they will not live in the house is the truth whats wrong with saying that ... some of them say that but fix the problems and say "We/I am not going to live here, and to do it the most cost effec. way but still the right way"... ie: not using the top of the line water fixture/ac system, etc .. now for them to say cover it up .... I agree bad deal..
I guess I just dont think the show tell the ture start and true (in detail) finish nor do I think they ever state that the show is a ducumentary but rather it is what we know and that would be a drama.

As far as me watching more tv - I have seem every show the Kirsten has done. Every show has a "theme" if you will .. a story line - like the lady that the house talked to her! or the good o'boys friendship problems, how about the one that wanted to do the house all green making it good for the enviroment ...

I am finding (to me) that the show is not much about what the flipper is really doing to the house but all about the drama of the flipper and the "story" just hitting if you will on all of the houses issues - notice some of the issue show the find of the issue but never what was done to fix it.

Why dont you watch the shows a little closer and you may see the side I see .. I think the other flip show Flip that House that one shows more of the ture job and the issues and fixes to them all .... more educational I think!

I agree with the flippers purchasing w/o an inspection is stupid -stupid but to think buyers are purchasing w/o inspections is crazy to me ..... I know all flippers are not bad - I know some myself.. the ones I know do a great job. I guess with the good come the not so good!

So, Calm down it will be ok Victor...Dont get all sucked in to this mess of a forum - it is almost of joke and I wonder what all of the people that post here really do ..

All my Best
House

Yes Victor you know it all ... I get it!

Home inspectors are idiots. How does one recommend to a prospective buyer of my house that the sewer line from the street to the house needs to be replaced due to it being penetrated by tree roots- with nothing more than a visual inspection where the sewer pipe 1st enters the house- without even opening the trap? There is absolutely no other evidence of a problem with the sewer pipe. What an idiot!

All inspectors are not idiots!
Are some Idiots ... heck yes!

I am not talking about all inspectors...

I can say that EVERY TIME I purchase a home the inspector I have worked with for years tells me to get the pipes tested under the house for this same reason Moe53 -because it does not show a "sign". The happens with out signs more so on older homes or homes with larger trees, etc. You are also correct that pipes show signs of leaking.. for the most part. I will tell you though, I sold a home and the buyer had the pipes tested - it failed .. the inspector (pipes)found the problem and it cost me about $1600 to repair.
I was very lucky in this case ... it was right under the toilet area (lead part).
My comment above was in regard to visual inspection and I dont know about your neck of the woods but in mine the inspector is wonderful. Here buyers in my market area are savvy .. very savvy and they hire the best inspectors money can buy and have every test possible - when I comment, is it not "every markets facts" but only on what I have learned or been through ..
Have a wonderful day!

I have been amazed at the number of things these guys run into that routinely appear on inspection reports I have gotten from my own home inspections in multiple states. Either they did not get an inspection or they did not get a good inspector. Kirsten's reactions to what they find is indicative of these. Inspections don't find everything, but a lot more things than the untrained eye.

It would be best if they studied up a bit before spending the kind of money it takes to buy the house in the first place.

I am amazed (and appalled) at how people on this show, with no prior experience, so arrogantly discount and/or devalue skilled tradespeople and professionals:
"We don't need a home inspection."
"We don't need a termite/pest inspection."
"We don't need a realtor."
"We don't need a licensed electrician."
"We don't need a licensed plumber."
etc. etc. etc.

The inspectors they "didn't need" could have told them up front they were dealing with dry rot or termite infestation or bad electrical, the realtors they "didn't need" could have gone over their plans with them (the way Kirsten tries to do) and tell them what would add value and what is a lost cost in their market, the licensed plumbers and electricians could have helped to avoid failed inspections and untimely delays...

Do I wish failure on these people? Well... I don't have much respect or sympathy for those who think they know more than any pros in the field, and who think flipping is "easy money" and they're going to be millionaires in a year with zero effort and unrealistic budgets. If "failure" is what causes them to get rid of the attitude (or get out of the game), then so be it.