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Dear: Fellow BBO'ers


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The DAWN NORAKAS (Stinger custom cycles) vs. SCOTT THOMPSON (Leroy Thompson Choppers) was entertaining but an odd episode of BIKER BUILD OFF.

I think this probably should have been the first true "tie vote" in "BIKER BUILD-OFF" history.

It was a strange episode for me because the bike I found myself partial to completely reversed during the builds during in show.
When The Norakas bike was shown in its raw state after fabrication, and before paint & plating, I found it a lot more impressive than the Scott Thompson Bike in its raw state. The Thompson bike didn't look right to me at first.

But after paint, plating, & accents, the THompson bike seemed to "come alive".
I thought all of the vintage-inspired accents & patinas may be a little too much, especially with that round oil can just sitting like a giant ball in the frame, but it all seemed to have come together.

The Dawn Norakas bike overall looked pretty nice to me also, but I've seen a post lamenting the the "cookie-cooker" aspect of this type of build. I understand legitimacy of what BBO forum member "DILLYDALLYO" was saying in general in regards to both bikes not being very ground-breaking but I'm trying not to be too finicky in terms of the the type of bikes featured on the show. I say let the builders build what they are partial to.

I agree that the NORAKAS build in general wasn't necessarily anything that hasn't been seen before but I still thought it was an excllent bike.
I understand that many chopper fans are very tired of the flowing clean look, but I don't mind as long as a builder is sincere in her/his admiration for that style and not just trying to make a buck off a trend.
That style seems to be DAWN NORAKAS' thing, so who are we to judge her credibility based upon the type of bike she likes to build.

I also thought the THOMPSON bike was a little too similar to the bike JASON KANGAS (TWISTED CHOPPERs) built in his match-up with the DETROIT BROS. in fall 2006.
To be honest I absolutely loved the final product oF the THOMPSON bike, but I really don't know why.
It all seemed to have come together in the end.


I'm not sure about the mixed up, kitchen-sink, "Frankenstein-trinket" style of bikes that have emerged recently.
You know...The JAY HART style of bike. He at least seems to be the best at this style anyway. You can tell he has serious talent.
It's an odd-looking style of bike design but still interesting to me, at least currently anyway. I still think that style will die out quick though, but with the exception of truly talented designers like a JAY HART.

I can't believe how similar both bikes were. It looked as if Dawn Norakas & Scott Thompson used the same front end, wheels, & tire set-up.

I wanted both Dawn Norakas and Scott Thompson to win. I just don't feel that one builder did better than the other.
It seemed a straight tie to me.

I didn't mind the "goofing off" either. Just so long as there is not a lot of it.
BBO needs to attempt to keep the original hard-core edge of the early episodes when INDIAN LARRY was alive but I don't see anything wrong in mixing up the atmosphere a bit.
Let some shows be "hard-core biker" but lets others be "goofy". Whatever comes as close to natural to the builders personalities I say.


--THANKS--

Scott webster's bike was great.I have seen it in Daytona this year and i can say the level of craftsmanship is amazing.It is his style 100%.As you have seen they built their own frame,engine and a lot of cool parts.I think Scott is a real bike builder and if you like his bikes or not that's a matter of taste.

bikeenthusiast:How can you call JAY HART'S bikes a frankstien/trinket style?

trin·ket (trĭng'kĭt)
A small ornament, such as a piece of jewelry.
A trivial thing; a trifle.

Please find one thing on one of Jay's bike that isn't there for a functional reason.
They may not conform to what a "CHOPPER" is supposed to look like(to you) but if builders like JAY don't push the envelope there will never be evolution in the custom world.

(these are only my opinions)

in addition calling it frankenstien is like saying it a cobbled up peice of junk.
which they most certainly are not.

To sure666:


Sure666....we are actually in agreement it seems. By that I mean I'm a huge JAY HART fan also.
When I used the words "Frankenstein" & "trinket", I was actually using them as terms of endearment.

To be honest, I just really couldn't think of the words to describe JAY HART's style. I don't know how to describe the overall design aesthetics of his work but I love his style.

I think JAY HART is easily one of the best out there. I think he's better than MATT HOTCH -- whose stuff used to be my favorite, but not anymore.

In comparison to JAY HART, MATT's work seems to be a little to straight-forward & safe. He seems to hedge his bets with super-expensive parts and components that he either out-sources or orders from expensive after-market manufacturers.
His new "EL-REY" bike is completely boring & un-inspiring. ALso, I'm sick and tired of MATT HOTCH's "price-dropping" -- always letting people know how much he spents on his bikes various parts.
But If you look at the stuff at JAY HART's "CHOPSMITHS" website, you'll see really original work.

I see JAY HART building practically everything on BBO, & I see MATT HOTCH having someone else even fab his tank.
No contest man....HART would blow HOTCH out of the water If they matched up.
BBO fans would see who the real builder is & who the real assembler is.

JAY HART was the first person on BBO that I noticed used a thin tire in recent years on "SPEED GOBLIN", and breaking the exclusive use of "Fat tires" that most builders are using on BBO.

I would take "SPEED GOBLIN" over "EL-REY" any day.

P.S. "SPEED GOBLIN" was robbed of a deserved win!!! "Worlds Fastest Bagger" -- get that crap outta here!!!



-- THANKS --

Hotch would smoke hillbilly Jay Hart. What a no talent ass clown! Are you for real? This guy is not even in the same league as Hotch

By the way, this a FOURM. What is a fourm? A fourm is a discussion group is it not? You have expressed your opinion and I'm expressing mine too.

I'll bet anything that Jay does not have a line customers wanting a motorcycles built like Hotch does. I have nothing against Jay. His first motorcycle was actually pretty cool. I'm just not a suck ass like yourself.

When BBO goes off the air see who ends up with the won hit wonder. Lets see who has the waiting list. My bet would be on Hotch. So what if I'm a chick that does not mean I don't like bikes! Attacking my screen name or my personal integrity means nothing.

Paul Tuttle has a line of customers that is FARRRRRRRRRRR...longer than Matt Hotch's line , does that make him an awesome builder???You are clearly wrong. You have been proven wrong by people that know what they are talking about and you have no idea what a real fabricator or builder is.
Matt Hotch does not build his frames .
Matt Hotch does not build his Tanks.
Matt Hotch does not build his engines.
Matt Hotch does not build his gear boxes.
Matt Hotch does not build his front ends.
Matt Hotch does not do his fancy paint.
Matt Hotch -Master Builder...what a joke! If Matt Hotch is a Master then Jay Hart is a MESIAH! What exactly does Matt Hotch do that you like????You haven't told us what you like about Matt Hotch. Is it ...his hair?
Jay Hart actually "builds" motorcycles.

Still waiting to see what it is that you like about Matt Hotch's work ?????? I think I remember seeing Matt Hotch build some handlebars, some exhausts and wiring his bikes. Heck, Pauly and Vinny do that and more! I think that maybe you should define "work". You act as though I am lying about the things he doesn't do... Would you care to challenge me on any of them?????

If I recall the frame on the v-lux was a one off frame. Not to mention he has built sinlge sided swing arms for his bikes.The vinne was also a one off frame. Look on his web site/
there is a ton more of one off parts.
http://www.matthotchdesigns.com/vinnie.html
Now your great builder Mr. Hart looks like he uses legend frames and a redneck a old pacho or something. there is only one frame that is not manufactured by someone else. Correct me if I am wrong. http://www.handbuiltmotorcycles.com/bikes.html
Hotch is the KING of bikes!!!!

better yet lets put a poll and find out!!

Who would win in the Paul Tuttle vs. Matt Hotch poll??? Definitely not Matt Hotch so again does that make Paul Jr. a good builder??? We're not talking popularity contest...We're talking "BUILDER"! What about Discovery Channel hosting a REAL building competition between Hart and Hotch ? example : a welding contest, a chassis building contest or engine building contest ?!!! How would that suit you??? Hart would destroy Hotch...hands down in every category!!!
First off- All that you say would be great IF Matt Hotch built either of those frames !
and second- The Vinnie is a wanabee copy of the Redneck Vincent that is a million times cooler!! (and YES Redneck did it before Matt Hotch!)
Just by stating that you believe Jay has only built one motorcycle frame shows me that you watch too much television and do not live in the real world. The last time I was in Indy Jay was working on 3 completely different frames and all were out of this world! BUT ...Even if you were right about Jay's "one frame build"(and you're clearly not),the frame that you're referring to involves more engineering and craftsmanship than everything Matt Hotch is ever going to do!
Jay builds far more than you will ever see on his "chopper" website. He is not a "chopper" guy, He is a fabricator! He mostly does prototyping and vintage race car work . After meeting him and talking to him a bit, motorcycles seem to be his least favorite passion.
I know that Jay Hart has built on the Legend chassis which is exactly the same chassis that Matt Hotch built his MOST POPULAR bike on! Hart's most popular bike is HIS OWN ! Would you SERIOUSLY be willing to say that Matt Hotch is a better fabricator or chassis builder than Jay Hart?! If so ... YOU ARE CRAZY!!! Hart is very respected in Indianapolis and famous for his fab skills. I've been in this business a LONG time (probably longer than you've been alive!), I know the "who's who" of this industry and NOBODY gets the respect of Indy without the skills to back it up. Matt Hotch is respected by people that know SQUATT about the fabrication world. He is a wonderful designer and that is ALL! I like the bikes he has "designed" and "project managed" ,just like everyone else but he is NOT a great "BUILDER" he is a DESIGNER! YOU CAN NOT DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE TWO!!!
If we were to discuss which is the better designer ...then we both would have our own OPINION (as you clearly do)but if we are to discuss which is the better builder then we can talk REAL FACTS for instance...welding, metal work, engine building, chassis building all around raw mechanics...Hart's skills would destroy that guy PERIOD and you would never find another knowledgeable intelligent person that would say otherwise. I would dare say that Matt Hotch himself would agree.
Good luck with your psychosis....

I was in Indy today for the Good Guys Hot Rod Nationals Rally and bumped into Jay . I filled him in on our little debate and told him about the dialog that we were having. He laughed and said that he had checked it out himself then actually scolded ME for being such an idiot as to try and argue w/ "message boards" (He also said that I was too old to be on the internet) and added an old saying that he has obviously modified since I last heard it :

"Those that CAN ... DO
and those that CAN'T... fight on message boards!"

I couldn't agree with him more . This is probably one of the most rediculous conversation that I've ever had I'm ashamed to say that I've wasted my time! You people will never get it.

WOW!!! good word,did not read this until today 6/29/07 @ 9:06AmC/T That is something I need to remember I'm an old fart who has been bikeing fo 35 Yr's started when I was 17! have not rode for a while because my back is done for!! I get caught up with the same thing!