Beautiful, Beautiful, Beautiful!!! Congratulations OCC Sr., Jr., and Mikey and all the crew there!! You guys did it..

Keep on going boys.. go and go and go!!

The more steps forward you take, the further you're getting.. You guys are now where you need to be.. You got the Shop, The equipment, The tools!! And as always you've got TLC and Your FANS!! We Love you guys and appreciate all you've done.

Lots of Luck In The New Shop!

Words for the new shop? Umm, not Local made.

Didn't they do any measurements before building the thing? They're just moving in and already griping that's it's too small and there's not enough room for their lifts? Quinn told Sr his machine room was going to be really cramped?

The new shop wasn't built locally? Was it modular construction?

[quote]The new shop wasn't built locally? Was it modular construction?[/quote]

Local = Union

There were large protests out in front of the new shop when it was being constructed by scab labor.

There were both union and non-union workers on the site. Instead of protesting, why wasn't the protesters themselves working on a site somewhere?

By the way, since when did union workers mean local and non-union workers mean "made in China"?

I knew they used some non-union labor. If the Tuttles are the ones paying the bills, they can use whoever they want. They have no obligation to use only union shops.

As to why the union protesters were not working on the site, that is a circular argument.

As to "made in China", it's about wage, not where it's made, but you knew that already.

As to paying the bills, sure the "Teutul's" are the one paying and as you say they have no obligation to use only Union, just as the unions have a right to protest. Freedom isn't a one way street.

Yes, the Teutuls are footing the bill and the contracted company(ies) have a right to hire whoever they want.

Also comparing union = local made is a falicy as well. A lot of non-union guys are also local. What's to say that a company from out of town/state isn't going to bring in their own guys (union or not) and take jobs away from the locals? There's no logic in saying union = local at all.

As to the right to hire whomever they want, no, they do not have the right to hire just anyone. The law is quite clear on that.

As to the comparing union = local. The term "local" means that the larger union has been broken down into smaller groups so that each region, sector or group can focus more on a smaller number of members.

I take it that you have never had a union paying job?

I've never had a union job, but I what union "locals" are. Your post sounded like you meant geographic local not local affiliation.

Several of my cousins and uncles had union paying jobs in the steel mills around Pittsburgh. Paid great money too. In 1988, three of my cousins were making over $40,000+ benefits in the mills. Same year, one of my uncles was making just over $50,000 plus great benefits as a janitor.

Two of my cousins bragged about breaking into their mill during a strike and breaking machinery so management couldn't operate the mill at decreased capacity during the strike.

Needless to say, neither they nor anyone else around Pittsburgh have those jobs anymore.

[quote]canorous
Senior Member

Registered: 10-18-05 Posted 06-14-08 05:50 PM As to the right to hire whomever they want, no, they do not have the right to hire just anyone. The law is quite clear on that.

As to the comparing union = local. The term "local" means that the larger union has been broken down into smaller groups so that each region, sector or group can focus more on a smaller number of members.

I take it that you have never had a union paying job?[/quote]

OBVIOUSLY NOT, but not unusual for certain people here to make statements about topics of which they have no knowledge.

Liz, go troll somewhere else please.

[quote]bikerhart
Senior Member

Registered: 06-20-05 Posted 06-15-08 03:22 AM Liz, go troll somewhere else[/quote]

Butch, do you want Liz to "go troll" UNION or LOCAL????? You shouldn't make statements that confirm your ignorance! Now how about an apology?

Again, I don't know anyone named Butch.

Hi,There,No Union,or non union,But didnt Sr. give the Job to his son Danny????

Did you catch the line that some one said,during the railing install? I allways put soda cans in the concrete,But i guess i havent made enough railing to go up and down the Empire state building! Sorry,got off track,But some one said if"The old man and Danny wernt at each others troats,the job would of been done"??? Is there trouble in the Money Land?? Thanks.

... huh??

[quote]steel mills around Pittsburgh[/quote]

I'm no expert on this topic, but I did do some research to attempt to make an informed reply. Here is one persons account of what happened to the Pittsburgh steel mills who was there:

"Pittsburgh steel mills were in gradual decline throughout the 60's and 70's. Steel mills were originally built in Pittsburgh because of the availability of needed materials and abundant rivers for the transport of heavy steel. The raw materials needed for making steel include iron ore, coal, and limestone. These were all found locally in Pittsburgh.

After WWII, the United States shared the technology needed to build steel mills with other countries. The Pittsburgh mills were not updated, since it proved less expensive to build a new steel mill than to expand and update the original ones in Pittsburgh.

After awhile, the raw material deposits began to run out, and had to be imported from other states. Eventually, it cost too much money to make steel in Pittsburgh, and as a result the steel mills began to shut down one by one."

Was Unions a contributing factor? Probably, but I think to a lessor degree, as outlined above.

That and the fact that we can ship the raw materials overseas, have it made into steel, and "imported" back into this country cheaper than we can make it here ourselves. I work in the steel industry and that's a sad, but true, fact.

What has recently changed is the price of fuel. As the price of fuel continues to increase, there is less incentive to produce product overseas and import the product back.

Companies are now considering moving (some have already moved) their production lines back to the states due to what was thought of as cheap labor, now getting offset by the cost of fuel.

I hope it happenes soon because we actually have to "no quote" jobs because we simply can't GET the steel we need anymore.

One of my cousins recently retired from managing a mill in Ohio. He had previously been at a mill in Pittsburgh. Another cousin still runs a plant making drill bits in Pittsburgh. My other cousins either found other work, or took disabilities(actually they scammed the system).

They also said the mill owners would not upgrade the mills. When I asked why, they said the union contracts prevented the mill managers from laying off anyone whose job was no longer needed due to upgrading the plant.

That's how my uncle ended up making over $50,000 grand a year plus bennies for pushing a broom 20 years ago. His job was no longer needed due to automation, but the mill had to keep him on.

The benefit costs had to be incredible as my relatives all had zero deductable health and dental coverage for themselves and their families for which they paid zero premiums.

They told me they lost most of their pension funds as well. I asked them what the steel workers union did to help them. One said "union leaders didn't give a sh**" as they all got nice payouts.

My grandfather, uncle, and father worked in a steel mill. What I remember is that China did it bigger, better, faster, and cheaper and took the market over. Unfortunately, US electronic and automotive companies cannot compare with Oriental manufacturers. Sad, but true. I am told that undersea labs in Japan have technology to make American heads swim. (No pun.)

This is my opinion which I cannot "prove". Please feel free to post your opinions.

Actually, a lot of the competition for our mills came from Japan, South Korea, Argentina and Brazil. In the late 70's/early 80's, steel from Brazil and Argentina wasn't on the same quality level as the stuff from Japan but it was good enough for many non-critical manufacturing in the US.

Bike,Sorry to confuse you, It should of said,that Sr. gave the new building contract to Danny,and on the railing install,some one said,If Danny and sr wernt at each others throats,the job would be done!
Did Dannys co. ever finish,or did they have someone else finish it?,Is the Money problems in OCC land? Thanks,Jack

[quote]That and the fact that we can ship the raw materials overseas, have it made into steel, and "imported" back into this country cheaper than we can make it here ourselves. I work in the steel industry and that's a sad, but true, fact.[/quote]

Windman, my father in law worked at US Steel for 50 years. He said other countries could make cheaper steel but no ones quality approached what we make here to this day. He also said lots of companies would pay the premium for steel made here because of the high quality.

Incognito wrote - My grandfather, uncle, and father worked in a steel mill. What I remember is that China did it bigger, better, faster, and cheaper and took the market over. Unfortunately, US electronic and automotive companies cannot compare with Oriental manufacturers. Sad, but true. I am told that undersea labs in Japan have technology to make American heads swim. (No pun.)

This is my opinion which I cannot "prove". Please feel free to post your opinions.



Incognito, you couldn't be more wrong. For one thing the United States is far out in front of both the Asian countries and Eu