After 20 years in animal control, and being an international speaker on dog aggression issues for animal control and law enforcement agencies (as well as being on Oprah, 48 Hours, McNeil/Lehrer, bla bla bla) I would ask that anyone seeking ACCURACE information on pit bulls visit sites such as http://www.workingpitbull.com, or http://www.animafarmfoundation.org and NOT base your beliefs or thoughts on the wildly inaccurate, sadly misinformed and tired old cliches given out by the officers of Detroit. I for one am tired of having to apologize for my proffession to people who have seen this show and the rampant ignorance toward the dogs shown week after week.
Thank goodness for Animal Precinct. At least once a week people can see PROFESSIONALS dealing with ALL breeds in a humane, intelligent and compassionate way.
Pit bulls need our help, not our hate. And especially not our ignorance.
What's your point? That pitbulls are not dangerous? I understand your disgust with the media's depiction of pitbulls, but I don't really understand what that disgust centers around.
I agree with you. Many people have a very bad misconsception about the Bull Dog, and other breeds as well. Any dog can be dangerous if brought up to be that way. Any breed of dog can be loving and friendly towards anyone if that is the way it is showen to be. I have owned a Pit Bull, and he was the biggest baby anyone had ever seen. He loved people and kids, he got along w/ my other dogs and my cats. Unfortunitly I got him from a friend of mine because I lived outside city limits. Pit Bulls are not aloud to be in city limits here.
I can tell you, AntiAustin, exactly why 20 Year Veteran is so Disgusted.
First, there is no such thing as a "pit bull." That is a designation commonly used by the ignorant to encompass at least six different and distinct breeds of dogs, to include the American Pit Bull Terrier, the American Staffordshire Terrier, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, the Bull Terrier and, on occasion, the American Bull Dog. It is also a designation that is commonly used by the media and unscrupulous politicians, to incite hysteria and paranoia among the generally gullible populace.
The "Animal Control Experts" (and I use the term loosely) of the Michigian Humane Society know absolutely, positively nothing about the breed called the American Pit Bull Terrier, as evidenced by the ridiculous show I saw today at 5pm "Seeking Justice" The byline said the show was about "vicious pit bulls" (and watching it was an exercise in masochism, I assure you) While it is entirely possible that a couple of the four dogs located in the house were vicious, the commentator rattled off the byline of the Michigan Humane Society: ALL "pit bulls" that walk through their doors, regardless of temperament, are automatically euthanized.
"What," would any fair, right-thinking person ask, "is the rationale for that action?"
Well here we are also told by the same commentator that some 90% or more of the "pit bulls" in Detroit are descended from "fighting lines," which make them especially vicious.
~ OK, "breed experts," get this: ALL American Pit Bull Terriers are descended from "fighting lines" at one point in time or another. Every last one. That's what they were originally bred to do. HOWEVER, the original breeders of these fighting dogs specifically bred animals to be non-aggressive toward all humans. Dog fighting of old required the human dog owners to actually get in the fighting pit, along with the referree, while dogs fought. A human aggressive dog was not considered "an option:" who the heck would want to run the risk of getting bitten routinely by his own dog or the other guy's dog, while dressing wounds, or separating them? Such dogs that were human aggressive, or could not differentiate between humans and other dogs, were mercilessly culled from the original bloodlines of the American Pit Bull Terrier.
Only in the past 20 years or so have thugs, gangsters and other criminal scum started backyard breeding "pit bulls," (we can never be sure of their bloodlines, many are outbred and crossbred with guardian breed dogs, mastiffs, rottweilers, etc.) Most of these dogs bred in such a manner, by such people, really are just curs and mutts. And these []are breeding some of their curs to have very vicious temperaments, apparently because they lack enough testosterone of their own to feel assured of their ever-so-lacking manhood.
As if that's not bad enough, then we have yet another group []that just LOVE their dogs, but don't think it's right to spay and neuter them. Why, you might ask? Because they'd really just LOVE to have a litter from their unsound, poorly bred dogs. Hence, we get tragedies like that which occurred in San Francisco, with the 12-year old boy Nick Fabish. It is these people[] that the media just loves to let us all know about, when one of theire untrained, unsound dogs finally hurts someone.
What so many people fail to understand is that this is not a breed specific problem. Any dog that is untrained, poorly bred and unsound, from a chihuahua to a Great Dane, can be a danger to society. It is when people fall into the trap of "Oh, we must be safe from dog attacks because 'pit bulls,' Rottweilers, Akitas, [insert your favorite "scary dog du jour"]are banned from this city/county/state/province/country," that they are MOST in danger. It is irresponsible ~ DANGEROUSLY IRRESPONSIBLE ~ to label one breed of dog as inherently vicious, and to place the Walt Disney-approved halo of "Safe" over other breeds. (Ever wonder how many brand-spanking new Dalmation owners would like to slug the makers of "101 Dalmations" for anthopomorphizing THIS drivey breed?)
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“It is also a designation that is commonly used by the media and unscrupulous politicians, to incite hysteria and paranoia among the generally gullible populace.”
I’m not sure I agree that reports that a “pit bull ripped the face of a little girl” are designed to incite hysteria. Regardless of gullible we are, the fact is a dog, a terrier, commonly referred to as a pit bull, ripped the face off a little girl. This is a very common report. You rarely hear about a German Shepard, or a poodle, or a Great Dane ripping the face off a child. So I’m not sure why the media is unscrupulous just because they report the facts?
If you lived in Detroit you'd know why Pitbulls shouldn't make it out the doors of that humane society. I've lived in many different cities and Detroit is by far in its own situation here.
Dog fights happen daily in the streets and as organized fights. Kids dog fight for a hobby. Stray dogs are attacked by Pitbulls daily. Not to mention how many Pitbulls have turned on people that have raised them without dog fight training in this city, and they eventually turn on someone or another animal in the house. If you walk down the stray dog kennels of the Michigan Humane Society, most of them are Pitbulls and most of them have dog fighting scars. I don't blame them one bit for having that policy and you can't argue it until you see what goes on in this city.
Those people who advocate cruelty and fear mongering; read the earlier posts before you open your mouth. ANY dog can be trained; there is NO random aggression. It is the humans who train aggression into them who are really dangerous. Read Cesar Millan and get educated before you open your mouth. The Michigan Humane Society is a cruel organization full of uneducated hypocrites who get some kind of thrill out of murdering dogs.
And many professional behaviorists don't go along with Milan's "techniques". He's been referred to as a "repackaged traditionalist" who is using, among good things, barely-understood-by-him "pack mentality" and fear tactics to train dogs. It's all very clever, and certainly profitable and TV star-making, but let's get a grip and study the man, his qualifications, his background, his own research, and the other side's viewpoints before falling for his approach.
This information is all over the internet.
As far as the MHS is concerned, they have always been strapped for funding and are attempting to function in a city rife with criminals who use APBT's and mixed breeds with some PB in them for fighting. I believe that a certain amount of mismanagement from the TOP has led to a lot of its practices with this class of dogs.
Better posts than mine here have addressed the historical problems, the misidentification, the misunderstandings, etc., about this class of dogs. I can only hail those posts and thank the writers in general, and add that we have a pretty high % of this general class of dogs at the shelter I volunteer at and that many of them are fine sweet smart animals who get adopted out, and that many of them came as trained fighters and didn't. I also know a darling boy across the street, owned by a horse vet who adopted him when he was still in his late puppyhood, a rescue of course, who is one of the nicest dogs i have ever known regardless of breed.
This is a tragedy, this whole durn situation. It's time people woke up and learned that the evil is not in the fighting dogs, it's in the humans who encouraged that proclivity.
We need to beef up the law as it applies to HUMANS and improve our law enforcement here.
Don't make excuses for the shelter workers who are jealous of Cesar Millan's complete success. So according to you Millan uses "fear tactics"? That's a false statement, and shows you haven't even made a cursory study of Cesar Millan, and you don't know a thing about what you're talking about. So is the claim that Millan might be one of those offensive "traditionalists". Geez, maybe, do you think so? Millan could even be one of those "traditionalists" who populate MHS and murder healthy dogs! Give me a break.
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The term "repackaged traditionalist" is meant to refer to Millan's adding a new spin to traditional methods and then glamour-packaging it with a good act and the help of the media. The pretty common "Dr. Phil for dogs" line is a good handle for this guy, altho Dr. Phil is a great deal better trained in HIS field, and just added showmanship to his knowledge package.
As I said, there are a number of sites on the internet that contain objections to some of his techniques - flooding and "hanging" being two - from other professional behaviorists, who are not "jealous", they're concerned. People don't usually don't go into animal welfare work with the idea of making a lot of bucks, they're just dedicated to animals. Mr. Millan appears to be an exception to that modest approach.
But as long as uninformed vituperative twaddle rules in respect to this whole shelter euthanasia issue, rational discussion is impossible.
Just because Cesar isn't "modest" doesn't mean he doesn't have good intentions and wants to make a difference- it seems to me he wants people to keep their pets instead of turning them into a shelter !! Thank goodness he isn't modest - someone needs to speak out for animals - people throw away their pets so easy it is disgusting ! And, he has all kinds of breeds of dogs -rescued dogs - dogs that would have been killed !! He has spoken out in favor of pit bulls as well - trying to show people that pits are good dogs!!
Just because he doensn't have a degree from some certain canine behavioral institute doesn't mean he doesn't know, love and understand animals....I happen to know a few "professional, trained" behaviorists that just don't connect with animals at all and they should not be making the judgement of which animal lives or dies.
[QUOTE] Not to mention how many Pitbulls have turned on people that have raised them without dog fight training in this city, and they eventually turn on someone or another animal in the house. [QUOTE]
Is that a fact ? You have actual numbers of pits that have turned on people?? I highly doubt it unless the animal was trained to be human aggressive. Detroit's emergency room must be flooded with people that have been bit by their pit bull ... can you get those facts for me?
yeah, i was cranky yesterday - i don't really think he's as bad as i implied. i'm concerned because some of those tactics are not supported by caring experienced formally-educated-in-the-field professional behaviorists i respect for their work, and there are a lot of words out there questioning Millan's approach. i'm nervous about people being lured into liking some guy because he's prominent on teevee and writes books. watch some teevee shows, read a book, and one is sucked in. i'm not sure that's enuf. his approach is too "young" for anyone to guage long-term effects.
it's a time of "quick fixes", and they make me nervous when an animal is involved. it's all about how they STICK, ya know? and you're right, many "behaviorists" are not formally trained, don't necessarily care for the animals they work with, etc. it's a wide open field in which only some appropriately educated & experienced folks work. that situation does not make evaluation of new techniques or choices easy at all.
on the pit bull bites topic, i'd like to see some stats too. it seems to me that when this "breed" (loosely defined by both the general public and some organizations with power over this situation who should be slapped around a lot for not bothering to get educated on what a "pit bull" is) bites anybody, it hits front pages faster than when any other kind of dg bite does. there's nothing like bad press to lead to exaggeration.
for most "pets" who bite, the fault lies with the owners and a perhaps bred-in propensity and certainly an unusual amount of physical strength. what poorly raised, poorly trained, unloved dog, after all, could NOT unexpectedly blow its stack at some random human, and if the animal is a strong one, do some real damage? i remember a day when the rottweiler was the primary choice for "fear" on the part of the public, for example. now it's the "pit bull".
we had a terrible case in San Francisco where two dogs killed a neighbor down the hall in an apartment building - the owners knew they were aggressive and did not have proper control over them. they were barely punished at all. the dogs were euthanized (they kept the female around for a long time for the case, she was the primary aggressor). their humans did some brief jail time and are no more convinced, as evidenced by their public words, that they had any responsibility at all today then they were the day this "incident" happened.
what the blue blazes kind of disincentive is it to owners of aggressive dogs who have not raised them properly when the owners repeatedly get off the hook and never learn the meaning of "responsibility"?
that's MY little red wagon on this topic.
in a kind of weird "1984" twist, i think the owners should be euthanized with the animals that they allow to do this. yes, "allow". in the same manner and in the same room, after their unhappy psychologically neglected dog(s), just to give them some more time to think about what they did.
i think the owners should be euthanized with the animals that they allow to do this. yes, "allow". in the same manner and in the same room, after their unhappy psychologically neglected dog(s), just to give them some more time to think about what they did.
oh i dunno about that - the more nice really sweet "pit bulls" i meet, the more i think that.
after all, this failure to properly train an animal in a class of potentially dangerous dogs, and these are, is abuse of the animal to an extreme, as well as endangerment to other animals and humans.
and keep in mind that i think a lot less of humans than i do of animals.
KarenKat05, I have often thought humans should have to go through what they do to animals!! Tie them to a tree for years and years or tie them out with no water in 110 degree weather, for example!!!!
It is so ridiculous what the media/public is doing to pit bulls....they were bred to be exceptionally human friendly!!! The shelter I was working at is putting basically all pit bulls down - they arent allowed to be fostered ( even the pups ) , aren't allowed in isolation if they are sick. They basically all get put down for "dog bite wounds", or "dog aggression" or even better "resource guarding" I couldn't take the ignorance anymore.( check out BADRAP.org!! THOSE people know Pits!!!! )Instead of educating the public and trying to change the misconception they make the breed look worse by euthanizing all of them. I guess it is easier to kill them than to ask a human to be a responsible dog owner!!!!!
zorro3 - it's not fair to bring Cesar Millan into this. He and the MHS both work with dogs. But the similarities end there. He has a large budget; the MHS is struggling financially. He works with one dog at a time; the MHS works with hundreds a year, and several at a time. He has plenty of time to do his training; the MHS has to make tough decisions because of the limited number of space, time, and training they can give these dogs. I'm not going to go on and on about what I think of Cesar. I'm just saying that you have to consider the differences and shouldn't compare him to the MHS so quickly.
PS: The shelter where I volunteer has a pretty strick temperament testing for pitbull-type dogs, but will adopt them out if they meet the standards. However, I don't think the community is so sure, as pitbulls hardly ever get adopted but are some of the sweetest and most sound dogs in the whole place. It's a shame, really.
I am disgusted by the rep pit bulls get also. I have had many pit bulls and they have all been my babies and NEVER shown aggression towards a person-however I have been bit or growled at by rat terriers, chihuahuas and I had a dalmation try to fight my dog in the middle of petsmart These dogs are animal aggressive and should not be left unattended with animals they do not know. They are not human aggressive. Pit bulls need our help and when people ignore who the real attackers are(people who fight them and breed them for money) and just blame it on the dogs being pit bulls then the problem will never get resolved. Help, Dont Hate!!
KarenKat05, I have often thought humans should have to go through what they do to animals!! Tie them to a tree for years and years or tie them out with no water in 110 degree weather, for example!!!!
Now I gotta tell ya I went off on a search to see if there had been a study for dog breed bites done....the funny thing is is that "pureblood 'pitbull type'" was the #1. Ok now what is so damn funny about this to me is the fact that as was stated above there is a rather large umbrella that encompasses "pitbull type". This umbrella covers between 3-5 pureblood breeds and mixture there of. The study I found went from 1979-2000.....amazingly the "pitbull type" including pureblood and cross breed came to a total of 76 bite related deaths. Amazingly Rotts and Shepherds (not including police/guard dogs at work)came to 71...this is TWO breeds both pure blood and cross breed that total nearly the same as between 3-5 of the vicious pitbull type. Go figure that.
Our country thrives upon fear mongering and terror. That is how our govt survives. That is how idiots remain in power. My poor mother is a victim of the fear mongering as she will not come to my house because of my bully....her loss unfortunately.
