Originally posted by mom9900: I highly disagree. How many children they have is soley up to them and there has been differing opinions in the medical community re: long term usage of the BC pill and the inability of a woman to carry a fetus to term.
Irresponsible of them to go into churches and talk about this??
No it is irresponsible of schools to go in behind parents backs and educate the kids on how to use a condom. Or any of the other garbage they want to tell kids in the name of "safe sex education".
What the Duggars are advocating is abstinence and they are telling what they have done in their family in regards to letting God choose the size of their family.
Thank God for them and their message of abstinence in this age of do what feels good and to HELL with the consequences.
There is alot that many will have to answer for in life, and the doctors who perform the abortions and the clinics that give out BC pills to teenagers are in that line as well.
mom9900, safer sex is education is EXTREMELY important. I do not want teenagers, kids, young adults etc. running around having s33x without knowing how to use proper protection. Protection decreases the risk of STDs, STIs, HIV?AIDS, UTIs and pregnancy. If people are going to do it, what is wrong with them being safe about it?
I don't understand people who preach anti-abortion but then say they aren't for birth control. If one was taking birth control in the first place, one would not need to consider having an abortion.
I think also that we often forget sometimes birth control is in some circumstance is a NECESSITY. I am a transplant patient and am on very potenet medications, that is why I take birth control. If I became pregnant now there would be a very high risk of miscarriage and other problems. When I am ready and can have my medications moved around so that it will be safe for me to carry a child, I will go off my birth control. I am on birth control BECAUSE I am responsible and BECAUSE I want to have children in the near future.
Birth control is not just for people who are unmarried, have casual s33x and don't want children.
So you are of the mindset that I should put my 13 year old daughter on the pill so that if she goes against what I have taught her that she won't get pregnant? Is that right?
I'm a Christian and my answer to that is HELL NO!!
That would be like making rules at the home and then telling the kids but if you decide to break them it's OK.
I have raised my kids to have morals and values and I wouldn't EVER think to tell them this is what I have taught you but if you decide to have sex here's some pills and / or condoms.
[/QUOTE]So you are of the mindset that I should put my 13 year old daughter on the pill so that if she goes against what I have taught her that she won't get pregnant? Is that right?
I'm a Christian and my answer to that is HELL NO!!
That would be like making rules at the home and then telling the kids but if you decide to break them it's OK.
I have raised my kids to have morals and values and I wouldn't EVER think to tell them this is what I have taught you but if you decide to have sex here's some pills and / or condoms.
That's great parenting 101 there.[/QUOTE]
Mom9900, I know this will be like talking to a brick wall, but I thought I would share with you. I was raised in a Christian home by my married mother and father, along with 2 sisters. The older 2 (me included) were not given practical, straight-forward information about sex. Without going in to too much detail, we were irresponsible to say the least. Both of us should have been given more information and access to contraceptives. My youngest sister was put on birth control at the age of 15. Partially because of severe acne, but partially because my parents learned their mistakes with the first 2. She (the youngest), was by far the most responsible and was able to make good, informed choices. She is the one that has done the best in life so far (education & career-wise), and is now engaged to the boy she started dating back in high school.
That is the most frustrating thing about people who spout Christianity as birth control. Open your eyes and get real before you do more harm to your children than good. JMHO, no need to go into attack mode.
How is education the same as putting a child on medical birth control? Extremes. Always extremes.
Also - I am terribly sorry for your friend Mom, but science tells a different story and I dont believe that your friend was told that birth control pills CAUSED her miscarriage. If she was, then I suspect she was seeing a "christian" doctor (like the Duggars did). Medically, it isn't true.
Yes, there are always exceptions to the rule, but when it comes to human life, the drug companies take no chances. That is why almost all drugs are not even "tested" on youth and say they are not to be taken by those under a certain age. If birth control pills could CAUSE a miscarriage, then it would be largely printed on all of the materials both provided by doctors/midwives as well as in the pill insert.
Yes - again...we all know it can cause a fertilized egg to not implant or to be "shed" but when that happens the women taking the pill don't even know that it has happened. It isn't the same as learning you are expecting and then losing the baby due to continuing to take birth control pills. There are even a lot of articles out there about how taking a whole package WILL NOT CAUSE A MISCARRIAGE because some people think that taking a lot of pills will be the same as taking the "morning after" medication. Article after article states that once you know you are pregnant, you cannot cause a miscarriage by taking even a whole pack of pills.
I also appreciate the detailed info about how the pill works. That was my understanding of it although I could not recite to others exactly how it worked. I just know that the pill is one of the most effective forms of birth control if a woman takes them regularly. I was one it for over 16 years and did not get pregnant so I feel like it is a very effective form of birth control. But, I will also say something about Michelle's addiction to pregnancy. While some of you think it's great that she's excited AGAIN about ANOTHER baby, she SHOULD be MORE excited about being a grandmother and be willing to prevent anymore pregnancies from happening for herself. I see her as incredibly selfish and simply liking the attention that the pregnancy entails. I've always maintained that I felt like Anna was secretly very unhappy that her mother-in-law could not shut off the baby factory at this point. It's MORE than a little embarrassing. It's not cute & it doesn't matter that Michelle's Mom was dumb enough to get pregnant again when her sister was pregnant. It's pathetic and mindless to keep having kids in your 40's when you have a bunch already.
While I agree with mom in that I would not want any of my children to make decisions that I have counceled against, I do understand that they very well might..... especially as they get older and are more independant.
I cannot imagine myself ever being in that position (of having one of mine kids having sx outside of marriage - especially while a teen living at home). I would like to think my husband and I could determine the best way to handle it, but there is really no way to know ahead of time on things like this how a parent will really react. I understand where both mom and fishinggav3 are coming from. I just can't say right now how I would react. I would certianly not ever condone the bad choices, but I'm not sure how exactly I'd handle it either.
I worked at a crisis pregnancy center for several years. I know full well that a large majority had been taught to wait until marriage but obviously they chose not to. I've also read that there has not been a high sucess rate with abstainance based teaching. Not sure why, but that's what's been reported.
I have no answers here other than to say that I've learned to be careful to say "I'll never..." as a parent because often times we really don't know until we're in the sitation. I have learned though, to stand my ground on what I beleive and have taught my kids but also to not treat them as if I were a dictator. I try to listen to them and try and see what areas can be compromised on without compromising on what really matters. (silly example, but I really prefer boys with short hair - my dad was military and it's what i'm used to seeing - I just prefer it, BUT boys these day like it long so when my older son was in middle school I started asking him what he would prefer on how he kept his hair. He kept it short for a while after that but eventually did try the longer look. Now he's almost 17 and has kind of found a middle ground. not as long as some but shorter than alot. His choice. I had decided that hair length wasn't something I needed to be rigid about and that my preferences were just that. I'm saving the battles for things that really matter.)
Abstinance education works one hundred percent of the time, especially if you are good, devout conservative Christians. Just ask that there Palin family, doncha know. You betcha.
1989kb, it is so nice to hear a balanced approach to such a difficult, controversial subject. You are right that ideally we hope our children will wait. I (kind of) wish I would have. Then again I would not have said daughter. ;-) But we must (should) be realistic and determine ahead of time how we will handle this when it comes up. Approaching it as the Duggars and others like them do (24/7 supervision) is unrealistic, and really doesn't teach the child anything, in fact it may make them more rebellious. My dad tried micro-managing, and let me tell you it didn't work.
mom9900, there are medical reasons to go on the pill as well. One of my friends in high school was on them because of her very bad acne (and I mean, very bad), another was on them because her cramps were so bad that she'd have to miss school because of them. I went on it because I had a very erratic cycle, and the pills evened that out. None of us thought that because we were on the pill it meant that we could be promiscuous. We all got straight A's, graduated and went to college.
Knowledge is just that, knowledge. We (my friends and I) all were taught sex education, and I'm glad we did. That way we knew what was what, and were able to make good choices throughout our lives. Thinking that knowledge - or medicine - is going to "make"a girl promiscuous is an unfortunate way of thinking. Kids will hold to good morals even with knowledge and meds. In my experience, it's the parents that hide things, or don't want to talk to their kids about s*x who end up with children who start sleeping with people before they should.
Originally posted by TXgoatmama: Abstinance education works one hundred percent of the time, especially if you are good, devout conservative Christians. Just ask that there Palin family, doncha know. You betcha.
For HEAVEN SAKES don't lump me in with the group of Palinites. Can't stand her and never will. Dontchaknow --
All parents IMO try to do what is right and what is best in their situation. I never said I would raise my children in a bubble. They know what sex is and they are being raised to know that is is to be saved for marriage but not only that but they are being raised to know what to look for in a life partner. Someone that treats you with respect, who doesn't belittle you or put you down. Someone who you don't fear but someone who you love and someone you look forward to spending your life with. They are also being raised to respect the opposite sex and that translates into not ogling girls and thinking they are just a piece of "eye candy" and vice versa for boys with my daughter.
And if sex education, the pill and condoms were the solution, then there wouldn't be pregnant teens or STDs. Absolutely NO PROGRAM works 100% of the time. All I know is that birth control methods like the pill and condoms can fail even when they are used 100% of the time. However, if abstinence is used 100% of the time, there is no chance of it failing. People are people and no matter how much or how little education is given, some people will still make bad choices and will still get pregnant or get and STD regardless. It's called SIN and it's a part of being human.
Originally posted by mom9900: I highly disagree. How many children they have is soley up to them and there has been differing opinions in the medical community re: long term usage of the BC pill and the inability of a woman to carry a fetus to term.
Irresponsible of them to go into churches and talk about this??
No it is irresponsible of schools to go in behind parents backs and educate the kids on how to use a condom. Or any of the other garbage they want to tell kids in the name of "safe sex education".
What the Duggars are advocating is abstinence and they are telling what they have done in their family in regards to letting God choose the size of their family.
Thank God for them and their message of abstinence in this age of do what feels good and to HELL with the consequences.
There is alot that many will have to answer for in life, and the doctors who perform the abortions and the clinics that give out BC pills to teenagers are in that line as well.
mom9900, safer sex is education is EXTREMELY important. I do not want teenagers, kids, young adults etc. running around having s33x without knowing how to use proper protection. Protection decreases the risk of STDs, STIs, HIV?AIDS, UTIs and pregnancy. If people are going to do it, what is wrong with them being safe about it?
I don't understand people who preach anti-abortion but then say they aren't for birth control. If one was taking birth control in the first place, one would not need to consider having an abortion.
I think also that we often forget sometimes birth control is in some circumstance is a NECESSITY. I am a transplant patient and am on very potenet medications, that is why I take birth control. If I became pregnant now there would be a very high risk of miscarriage and other problems. When I am ready and can have my medications moved around so that it will be safe for me to carry a child, I will go off my birth control. I am on birth control BECAUSE I am responsible and BECAUSE I want to have children in the near future.
Birth control is not just for people who are unmarried, have casual s33x and don't want children.
So you are of the mindset that I should put my 13 year old daughter on the pill so that if she goes against what I have taught her that she won't get pregnant? Is that right?
I'm a Christian and my answer to that is HELL NO!!
That would be like making rules at the home and then telling the kids but if you decide to break them it's OK.
I have raised my kids to have morals and values and I wouldn't EVER think to tell them this is what I have taught you but if you decide to have sex here's some pills and / or condoms.
That's great parenting 101 there.
I think it's like telling your children not to speed when driving, but supplying their car with air bags just in case they do.
There aren't many parents who want their child to crash because they broke the rules and drove to fast.
You, apparently, want your 13-year old to have a "nonblessing" to care for, to show her she was wrong to break the rules.
Originally posted by chrislukas: And if sex education, the pill and condoms were the solution, then there wouldn't be pregnant teens or STDs. Absolutely NO PROGRAM works 100% of the time. All I know is that birth control methods like the pill and condoms can fail even when they are used 100% of the time. However, if abstinence is used 100% of the time, there is no chance of it failing. People are people and no matter how much or how little education is given, some people will still make bad choices and will still get pregnant or get and STD regardless. It's called SIN and it's a part of being human.
And if ignorance and denying access to birth control were the answer, we wouldn't have teen pregnancy or STDs.
I'm afraid teen pregnancy came way, way before sex education ever entered the schools.
You can talk all day long about morals & such, but morals don't amount to much once an unwed teen is pregnant. A lot of kids are going to have sex, like it or not. I'd lots rather see someone use a condom or get on the pill if they are going to have sex rather than try to make out that they are so pure & innocent and got pregnant the first time they had sex. There is no excuse for it--not with the birth control readily available. Sarah Palin's daughter is a good example of "principles gone wild". Bristol Palin even said that she regrets getting pregnant but still loved her son. Imagine if they'd just used a condom, Levi Johnston would not likely be shooting off his mouth & making the bucks at the expense of the Palins. So, the unprotected sex Bristol & Levi had cost a whale of a lot more than they thought all the way around. And it could all have been avoided very easily.
Don't forget about STDs. Condoms do more than just protect against conception, they stop the spread of STDs.
Mom9900, a question: you mentioned that you're teaching your kids what sex is, that it's for marriage, and that they need to find a life partner who is good and will treat them well. Do you think that those of us here on the board who are in favor of sex ed and such don't do that? That we want people sleeping around willy-nilly, don't want their children to have life partners that respect and care for them?
CHOICE should not impact other people like how the Duggar girls are forced to raise more and more siblings. It's a twisted belief. I also think the calendar thing is a bit sick on its own. The Duggar kids do not need to know when their Mom is having a period. They don't need to know how often or when they are having sex. Needless to say, Jim Bob & Michelle don't have enough shame or they would not still be spitting out kid after kid now that they are grandparents.
Originally posted by mitsy12: CHOICE should not impact other people like how the Duggar girls are forced to raise more and more siblings. It's a twisted belief. I also think the calendar thing is a bit sick on its own. The Duggar kids do not need to know when their Mom is having a period. They don't need to know how often or when they are having sex. Needless to say, Jim Bob & Michelle don't have enough shame or they would not still be spitting out kid after kid now that they are grandparents.
......or telling the entire WORLD that Michelle got pregnant on Father's Day. Good grief!!
Originally posted by arnaras: Don't forget about STDs. Condoms do more than just protect against conception, they stop the spread of STDs.
Mom9900, a question: you mentioned that you're teaching your kids what sex is, that it's for marriage, and that they need to find a life partner who is good and will treat them well. Do you think that those of us here on the board who are in favor of sex ed and such don't do that? That we want people sleeping around willy-nilly, don't want their children to have life partners that respect and care for them?
Excellent point! I think it is horrible to raise a child to think that their life partner has "baggage" if they dated!!! Dated doesn't mean had sex. They are not one and the same. Dated doesn't even mean they fell in love with someone.
We all are raising our children with the morals and standards we hope they will keep. I was raised with my parents' morals and guess what? I did things that would have made their hair stand on end. Most teenagers do and almost all come through unscathed and a better person for their experiences. You can try to tell me that some dont and why but I personally think that the Duggar children (girls especially) are way more damaged goods emotionally than any normal teenagers I know.
Originally posted by arnaras: Don't forget about STDs. Condoms do more than just protect against conception, they stop the spread of STDs.
Mom9900, a question: you mentioned that you're teaching your kids what sex is, that it's for marriage, and that they need to find a life partner who is good and will treat them well. Do you think that those of us here on the board who are in favor of sex ed and such don't do that? That we want people sleeping around willy-nilly, don't want their children to have life partners that respect and care for them?
I was making a point based on my specific circumstances since in my life that is of utmost importance for a variety of reasons. My children and their future choices are uppermost in my mind and that they choose mates that treat them with care and respect and they go on to care for their spouses in the same way.
Children who aren't always shown what a marriage and family should be go on to repeat bad behavior and I am trying to circumvent that by all means possible and break that cycle in their lives.
Originally posted by arnaras: Don't forget about STDs. Condoms do more than just protect against conception, they stop the spread of STDs.
Mom9900, a question: you mentioned that you're teaching your kids what sex is, that it's for marriage, and that they need to find a life partner who is good and will treat them well. Do you think that those of us here on the board who are in favor of sex ed and such don't do that? That we want people sleeping around willy-nilly, don't want their children to have life partners that respect and care for them?
I was making a point based on my specific circumstances since in my life that is of utmost importance for a variety of reasons. My children and their future choices are uppermost in my mind and that they choose mates that treat them with care and respect and they go on to care for their spouses in the same way.
Children who aren't always shown what a marriage and family should be go on to repeat bad behavior and I am trying to circumvent that by all means possible and break that cycle in their lives.
...as are all the rest of us here Mom. Just because we don't believe the same things you do doesn't mean we don't want our children to be happy and live good lives.
Originally posted by arnaras: Don't forget about STDs. Condoms do more than just protect against conception, they stop the spread of STDs.
Mom9900, a question: you mentioned that you're teaching your kids what sex is, that it's for marriage, and that they need to find a life partner who is good and will treat them well. Do you think that those of us here on the board who are in favor of sex ed and such don't do that? That we want people sleeping around willy-nilly, don't want their children to have life partners that respect and care for them?
I was making a point based on my specific circumstances since in my life that is of utmost importance for a variety of reasons. My children and their future choices are uppermost in my mind and that they choose mates that treat them with care and respect and they go on to care for their spouses in the same way.
Children who aren't always shown what a marriage and family should be go on to repeat bad behavior and I am trying to circumvent that by all means possible and break that cycle in their lives.
I completely understand and respect that. I agree, actually. But my point is that you seem to think that good choices and morals are incompatible with things like sex ed (including teaching about safe sex.) I was wondering why you think that the two are incompatible? Why must a girl who knows how to use a condom be sleeping around? Can't she just be educated?
Originally posted by arnaras: Don't forget about STDs. Condoms do more than just protect against conception, they stop the spread of STDs.
Mom9900, a question: you mentioned that you're teaching your kids what sex is, that it's for marriage, and that they need to find a life partner who is good and will treat them well. Do you think that those of us here on the board who are in favor of sex ed and such don't do that? That we want people sleeping around willy-nilly, don't want their children to have life partners that respect and care for them?
I was making a point based on my specific circumstances since in my life that is of utmost importance for a variety of reasons. My children and their future choices are uppermost in my mind and that they choose mates that treat them with care and respect and they go on to care for their spouses in the same way.
Children who aren't always shown what a marriage and family should be go on to repeat bad behavior and I am trying to circumvent that by all means possible and break that cycle in their lives.
...as are all the rest of us here Mom. Just because we don't believe the same things you do doesn't mean we don't want our children to be happy and live good lives.
Originally posted by arnaras: Don't forget about STDs. Condoms do more than just protect against conception, they stop the spread of STDs.
Mom9900, a question: you mentioned that you're teaching your kids what sex is, that it's for marriage, and that they need to find a life partner who is good and will treat them well. Do you think that those of us here on the board who are in favor of sex ed and such don't do that? That we want people sleeping around willy-nilly, don't want their children to have life partners that respect and care for them?
I was making a point based on my specific circumstances since in my life that is of utmost importance for a variety of reasons. My children and their future choices are uppermost in my mind and that they choose mates that treat them with care and respect and they go on to care for their spouses in the same way.
Children who aren't always shown what a marriage and family should be go on to repeat bad behavior and I am trying to circumvent that by all means possible and break that cycle in their lives.
I completely understand and respect that. I agree, actually. But my point is that you seem to think that good choices and morals are incompatible with things like sex ed (including teaching about safe sex.) I was wondering why you think that the two are incompatible? Why must a girl who knows how to use a condom be sleeping around? Can't she just be educated?
The idea of a girl or boy being educated about sex is frightening to mom9090.
I don't think she can conceive of a girl knowing how to use a condom, yet choosing to engage in abstinence.
it's only by keeping kids ignorant that you can keep them safe from poor sexual choices.
My beliefs are probably very similar to mom9900 and I can pretty much agree with her on the issues of so-called safe sex and sex education.
For my child (when he was a child) I would not have considered teaching him how to use a condom nor would I condone sex education that teaches a concept like "safe-sex" which really doesn't exist. The only pre-marital safe sex is no sex.
I also never taught my son how to cheat just because I knew he most likely would try cheating at some point. I never taught him how to lie based on knowing that kids will lie. I never taught him how to fight even though I know kids fight. For me, teaching a child how to have pre-marital sex is just as wrong as teaching a child to cheat or lie or anything else that is wrong.
Originally posted by chrislukas: My beliefs are probably very similar to mom9900 and I can pretty much agree with her on the issues of so-called safe sex and sex education.
For my child (when he was a child) I would not have considered teaching him how to use a condom nor would I condone sex education that teaches a concept like "safe-sex" which really doesn't exist. The only pre-marital safe sex is no sex.
I also never taught my son how to cheat just because I knew he most likely would try cheating at some point. I never taught him how to lie based on knowing that kids will lie. I never taught him how to fight even though I know kids fight. For me, teaching a child how to have pre-marital sex is just as wrong as teaching a child to cheat or lie or anything else that is wrong.
I believe in teaching a child everything they will need to know in life to prepare them for adulthood and making good, informed decisions.
And while I certainly would never encourage my child to drive recklessly, her car will have air bags, just in case. I wouldn't omit them because it is "morally wrong" to speed.
If you say that you "know" your child will cheat, lie and engage in premarital sex, a good parent takes precautions to limit the repurcussions of such actions. (And, actually, I don't "know" that my child will engage in such things)
And while I certainly would never encourage my child to drive recklessly, her car will have air bags, just in case. I wouldn't omit them because it is "morally wrong" to speed.
If you say that you "know" your child will cheat, lie and engage in premarital sex, a good parent takes precautions to limit the repurcussions of such actions. (And, actually, I don't "know" that my child will engage in such things)
I believe you are comparing apples to oranges. Using protection while doing something there is nothing morally wrong with is different than protection oneself from a disease or pregnancy while engaging in something that is morally wrong. Airbags also protect when you yourself are driving within the law and someone else is driving irresponsibly. Basically birth control and condoms for premarital sex are to protect you from "getting caught" while doing something morally wrong. It's no different than telling your child that if they should make the choice to rob a convenience store to make sure they wear a mask and gloves so they don't get caught. Personally if a person believes pre-marital sex is wrong and then they turn around and teach their child how to do it so they won't "get caught" is teaching a child double-standards. Either you teach them right from wrong or you teach them that anything goes as long as you don't get caught.
Good point Chris. I hadn't heard that example before but it does make sense.
I think there are so many things that come into play with this topic and so many different opinions even amoung people who generally agree with one another.
And while I certainly would never encourage my child to drive recklessly, her car will have air bags, just in case. I wouldn't omit them because it is "morally wrong" to speed.
If you say that you "know" your child will cheat, lie and engage in premarital sex, a good parent takes precautions to limit the repurcussions of such actions. (And, actually, I don't "know" that my child will engage in such things)
I believe you are comparing apples to oranges. Using protection while doing something there is nothing morally wrong with is different than protection oneself from a disease or pregnancy while engaging in something that is morally wrong. Airbags also protect when you yourself are driving within the law and someone else is driving irresponsibly. Basically birth control and condoms for premarital sex are to protect you from "getting caught" while doing something morally wrong. It's no different than telling your child that if they should make the choice to rob a convenience store to make sure they wear a mask and gloves so they don't get caught. Personally if a person believes pre-marital sex is wrong and then they turn around and teach their child how to do it so they won't "get caught" is teaching a child double-standards. Either you teach them right from wrong or you teach them that anything goes as long as you don't get caught.
My child can come to me for any piece of information she needs. Ignorance is never good, and can make a child vulnerable to victimization. You are assuming kids will make the wrong choice with that information. I have a bit more trust in my kids than that. You might as well not teach them about fire, because they might use it to engage in arson.
Chris, You did not teach your son anything about birth control? Really??? I'm not suggesting in grade school but when a teen is getting older and heading into adult-hood?
I agree with you that according to our Christian beliefs, pre-marital relations is wrong. I'm certainly not teaching my kids anything other than what we believe is Biblical truth.
However, kids sometimes make mistakes or execute poor judgments. I want them to be educated in all areas of life, even if they choose not to participate in them. And if they find themslves in a situation, they have information on how to handle it.
I did not have pre-marital relations. I come from a very religous fundamentalist background, just like the Duggars and live a life similiar to the Duggars, actually. (not exactly the same...I went to college and have a masters degree) Anyway, my mother taught me about birth control because it is just something that you should know about and in case I did choose a different path (over the age of 18) or make bad choices, I was prepared and knowledgeable about relations and the affects of such actions etc.
I did stay on a Christian path and never needed the info I learned. But knowing about something is not endorsing it.
Not only that, we all know that teens are going to learn about this stuff somehow. If I teach it, it is from our Christian perspective and not some kid on the street's perspective, which I probably won't agree with. I want to be able to teach my children things from our perspective, what the Bible says about it etc.
The Duggar children must know about birth control. They have to. Otherwise every other family would have more children, maybe not 18, but you'd have bigger families in general. So, the fact that they are unusual must lead right into a religious discussion of birth control.
I agree that we should education our kids and answer whatever questions they might have. However, I do not think the information given to a 6yo would be/should be the same as what you tell a 13yo.
When discussing anything, whether it is regarding how babies are born or anything else, I think the answers need to be honest but age appropriate.
I heard a story once of a boy in kindergarden coming home and asking his dad where he came from. The dad launched into a lengtly explaination of sx. When he finished and asked his son if he had any questions, the boy just looked at him and said the he needed to know WHERE he was from (hosipital or which state or something innocent like that). Sometimes we need to take a step back and find out what is being asked before we answer. Besides, sometimes the simple answer is all that is needed at the time. As they grow and can understand more, you explain in more detail.
Chris, I reread your post and I agree with you about not teaching kids how to rob, lie, cheat or do oher things that are wrong just because they might want to do them and then we can teach them how to do them safely. You are 100% correct.
However, if you have ever been young and in love, sometimes....the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.
Relations between two people in love is a normal thing. I agree, it should wait for marriage...but...sometimes...the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.
Chris...do you remember being young and how hot and heavy things can get in a matter of minutes? Both my husband and I are Chrsitians and I do remember struggling to keep things under control.
If you don't date and only court, then I guess you don't have to worry about such things. Of course, I think sex was a huge part of the push on the part of Josh to get married. HURRY!!! I MIGHT EXPLODDDDEEEE!!!
Giving children knowledge doesn't lead to action. It hopefully gives them the tools they need to handle difficult situations when they arise. It takes a much stronger person to be exposed to feelings and young emotions that can get further than you want in no time and say "no - this isn't what I want" than it takes to stay home, never be alone, never get close to anyone other than siblings, etc.
btw - the Duggar children definately know about birth control because Michelle and JIm Bob mention it every time they tell their story. So, they are being taught that it is bad.
I feel like I was raised in a very healthy situation where my mother and step father (yes - gasp) were obviously in love and openly affectionate. We even were aware that they were intimate. Their relationship showed me the best side of a marriage and intimacy. The Duggar family seems to treat sex much like a 15 year old boy does. It is something that causes giggles, is joked about constantly and then forbidden. To me, if any of those girls or boys ever do date, it is a recipe for disaster, especially once they are engaged.
To me the whole thing with Anna and Josh was almost an admission that if they crossed the line with even kissing that they had no self control to stop there. If you are that much in love and have any sort of extended engagement, then at some point you might find yourself tempted. A child that has been educated will have a lot more ability to handle this sort of situation than one with little or no education other than "just don't do it".
I realize these are my opinions and that the Duggars (and others here) can and will do what they choose. Hopefully it will work out best for everyone.
I guess that is why the Duggars do courting then. It certainly takes away those hot and heavy moments.
I dated. Courting wasn't really "in" 20 years ago. I married my husband at 21 and dated him for about 18 months piror. Not too much time for tons of dating.
My oldest is 11. I'm not sure how we are going to handle all of this...it's kinda scary.
Josh and Anna? I like the Duggars but that with the hand holding was obsessive and over the top. My goodness! Maybe it was a good choice to have a chaperone!
I also disagree because jimbob and Michelle are teaching their children great. They are teaching their children to love and appreciate god. I also believe that children are a gift from god and if not using birth control would raise someones chances of becoming pregnant then dont use it. Michelle and Jimbob have set out to teach thier children right from wrong and they love going out to help others and if you thing that is the wrong thing to do there is something wrong there!
What's wrong is parents in their 40's with grown children and now grandchildren who see nothing wrong in continuing to spout out more babies for their older daughters to raise. There's more to raising a child than teaching them some values. Teaching them to use their brains that God gave them would be one thing but sadly, neither Jim Bob or Michelle are using their brains or they would have quit the baby factory a long time ago.
MOM why do you think you can speak for every and assume you know what others are thinking.I am all for choice any choice, but I do not like when people say things that are fact when it is an opinoin such as your idea of the pill. The pill does not cause in general people to not be ablle to carry to term. It is possible, that she just had a problem. Schools do not teach sex education and go behind a parents back. Parents are fully aware of what is going on and have a chikd opt out of the class. Is it possible your child wanted to learn but was afraid to tell you. her uterus may have been weak because it was tipped, it was septated, she could have had multiple procedures or she just has a problem. Choice is a very easy concept to get . I just think the Duggars are misinformed and using this excuse as an excuse to preach a bunch of nonsense. A belief is great but it does not mean it is a fact. I have a lot of faith, but my faith is mine but it does not mean it is right. it is right for me
AJ - I get the feeling you are rather young from your posts (you type like a text with no caps, etc). I am not quite sure what you are saying either, but I think I get your intent.
I just love that people like you think that those of us who don't care for the Duggar clan are not teaching our children right from wrong, that helping others is a good thing, etc. Actually, I don't love it. It is insulting and proves that you are extremely narrow minded. Us "Duggar haters" get told all the time how we just don't get it, how the Duggars are God's shining example, how so many of the youth of the world are horrible children, how there are dangers lurking around every corner, how we are just AWFUL for talking about a family that has put themselves on television to spread their beliefs (thus wanting people to watch and learn and comment), how we are foolish to think that the girls are doing more than standard "chores" and that the boys participate as much as the girls, etc., but the truth is that you all are the ones that are extremely narrow minded. The live and let live stuff that is constantly spouted when I or others point out things we don't agree with when it comes to the Duggar family is something that you can't seem to understand.
The idea that a particular religion is the only one, that the majority of youth are bad, that there is crime and damnation just waiting to attack you outside the door, etc. is very narrow minded. But, if you have given your brain to someone else for them to tell you what to do and think, then you have no mind to be narrow or otherwise.
Can someone please answer me here: Why does a kid knowing about safe sex make them promiscuous? How does knowledge hurt? Point blank, I want to know.
I'll give you my opinion: it doesn't. Knowledge - all knowledge - empowers. Deliberately keeping your kids ignorant is doing them a disservice. Do you really think that they're not going to talk about sex? Of course not. But they're going to talk to others their age, and they're probably going to hear dumb things. They're still going to think about sex (oh no, uncomfortable feelings!), they're still going to be tempted. Give them an understanding of things, and they can make a good choice.
I had a continual dialogue with my mother about sex growing up. But guess what? I didn't sleep around. Hard to believe for you extreme people perhaps, but true.
Unfortunately, I did not have a dialogue with my mother about sex. Her only answer was "don't do it." I swore then and there that I would do better by my kids. I also didn't sleep around and neither have my daughters. Knowledge is never a bad thing and it doesn't produce promiscuous girls. Ignorance does. Girls who have been taught only abstinence just don't acknowledge that they have had sex or are planning to do it. They just do it anyway and damn the consequences.
If you shelter your children and make them fear you, what have you really taught them. When you condem, others and their thinking to your children and teach them only our way of thinking is right, you cause them fear and anxiety. if you teach them, they will be thrown away if they do not think as we do, then what have you done. You may think what your doing is right, and that is fine but it is awful to do that to childre,n. I have seen posts on here but some of the ones to be claiming to be the best christians say they would put their chidlren our such as if they were gay, go back through the older posts, or sex education etc, how sad. trust me your kids do not trust you. you can say they do, just like the Duggars but these kids do not deep down trust, they follow, big differance
All one really is doing is teaching their children they cnanot go to them or trust them. You may have set the fear in them but they cannot trust you. when you teach a child, they cannot come to you or be put out for thinking other than your way, that is turmoil. you can say your kids trust you but they do not
Originally posted by arnaras: Can someone please answer me here: Why does a kid knowing about safe sex make them promiscuous? How does knowledge hurt? Point blank, I want to know.
I'll give you my opinion: it doesn't. Knowledge - all knowledge - empowers. Deliberately keeping your kids ignorant is doing them a disservice. Do you really think that they're not going to talk about sex? Of course not. But they're going to talk to others their age, and they're probably going to hear dumb things. They're still going to think about sex (oh no, uncomfortable feelings!), they're still going to be tempted. Give them an understanding of things, and they can make a good choice.
I had a continual dialogue with my mother about sex growing up. But guess what? I didn't sleep around. Hard to believe for you extreme people perhaps, but true.
You are right, giving your child knowledge is not going to make them the "wh0re of Babylon (sp?)."
If they don't learn what they want to know from you, they will learn it somewhere else. So, parents, which would you rather it be??
I don't have a problem with educating a child about sex. I believe they need to know what it's all about, the reasons a person has sex, etc. But, I also believe that can be taught within the context of "there's a time for sex and that's when you're married." I think you can fully educate your child about the good and the bad when it comes to sex and of course they should be taught about HIV and other STDs, pregnancy, and all of that. I for one have never said a child shouldn't be educated and it absolutely should be done by a parent. I just don't see a need to educate the child and then turn around and say "Oh, but if you decide to do something foolish and have sex anyway, here's some condoms and here's how to use them."
There is a HUGE difference between educating and enabling.
Originally posted by chrislukas: I don't have a problem with educating a child about sex. I believe they need to know what it's all about, the reasons a person has sex, etc. But, I also believe that can be taught within the context of "there's a time for sex and that's when you're married." I think you can fully educate your child about the good and the bad when it comes to sex and of course they should be taught about HIV and other STDs, pregnancy, and all of that. I for one have never said a child shouldn't be educated and it absolutely should be done by a parent. I just don't see a need to educate the child and then turn around and say "Oh, but if you decide to do something foolish and have sex anyway, here's some condoms and here's how to use them."
There is a HUGE difference between educating and enabling.
I think it's worse to say, "If you decide to do something foolish and have sex anyway, I won't tell you how to prevent pregnancy, you can just guess."
Knowing about condoms doesn't make it more likely they will have sex. That is a foolish notion of control. It's not like, "Well, my daughter is safe from premarital sex, because I didn't tell her about those condom things. I kept her ignorant, on purpose."
Of course, it's irrelevant nowadays, because all this information can be found on the internet. And if a kid wants to know how to use a condom, and she knows her mom won't tell her, she can find the information online. Let's just hope it's accurate. Or she can ask her boyfriend. Let's just hope he's honest ("Yes, honey, it does go on my finger.")
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, because in my book, teaching a child how to use condoms is no different than helping them come up with a disguise and providing them with gloves just in case they decide to rob a convenience store or a bank, or teaching them how to shoplift because they might just cave in to peer pressure and try to hide a lipstick in their purse.
You don't have to buy your kid birth control, but you don't have to be opposed to them knowing about it which is much different than comparing it to robbing a store. I'd much rather a child use some birth control and NOT be an unwed teen Mom. It's tough to try to raise a kid when you're a kid and it's very hard to give the kid up and many don't even want to discuss abortion so the obvious option would be to NOT let it happen in the first place. If the teen is going to have sex (and many will, like it or not), then don't let them get strapped with a kid when they are a teen. That is common sense.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: mod_kelly,
Originally posted by mitsy12: You don't have to buy your kid birth control, but you don't have to be opposed to them knowing about it which is much different than comparing it to robbing a store. I'd much rather a child use some birth control and NOT be an unwed teen Mom. It's tough to try to raise a kid when you're a kid and it's very hard to give the kid up and many don't even want to discuss abortion so the obvious option would be to NOT let it happen in the first place. If the teen is going to have sex (and many will, like it or not), then don't let them get strapped with a kid when they are a teen. That is common sense.
I doubt there are many teen moms out there who became pregnant because their mom taught them about birth control. ("I would never have thought of it, otherwise!")
If the teen is going to have sex (and many will, like it or not), then don't let them get strapped with a kid when they are a teen. That is common sense.
Oh yes, heaven forbid they should have to face the consequences of making a poor decision. We'll just get them an abortion and pretend it never happened.
I want them to be educated in all areas of life, even if they choose not to participate in them. And if they find themslves in a situation, they have information on how to handle it. 
But knowing about something is not endorsing it. 
If I teach it, it is from our Christian perspective and not some kid on the street's perspective, which I probably won't agree with. I want to be able to teach my children things from our perspective, what the Bible says about it etc.
