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Junior Member
Registered: 07-07-07
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quote: Originally posted by wolfy-hound:
#1 The myth was from modern times, NOT the era of the original muzzleloaders.
#2 The myth stated cigerette butts, not pyrodex bullets.
#3 The dummy was explained to NOT have ribcage bones because they were testing if the projectiles would penetrate, not if they would find their way through the bones,
#4 The dummy was not wearing clothing because they can't test every type of clothing, so better to eliminate the variable.
#5 Blanks are NOT just a charge. They include some bits of plastic which in many cases do exit the barrel. That's how some people have died, when the plastic penetrates at close range.
#6 Pressure would not cause "holes" it would simply press in over a wide area.
#7 The butts put in one after the other would not block the barrel enough to be fired at all. That's why it was packed with 3(and the myth stated Three!)
I'm sure you watched the show.. check out a repeat to see all the facts you overlooked.
Wolfy
Very good points. |
Junior Member
Registered: 08-16-07
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quote: Originally posted by wolfy-hound:
#1 The myth was from modern times, NOT the era of the original muzzleloaders.
#2 The myth stated cigerette butts, not pyrodex bullets.
#3 The dummy was explained to NOT have ribcage bones because they were testing if the projectiles would penetrate, not if they would find their way through the bones,
#4 The dummy was not wearing clothing because they can't test every type of clothing, so better to eliminate the variable.
#5 Blanks are NOT just a charge. They include some bits of plastic which in many cases do exit the barrel. That's how some people have died, when the plastic penetrates at close range.
#6 Pressure would not cause "holes" it would simply press in over a wide area.
#7 The butts put in one after the other would not block the barrel enough to be fired at all. That's why it was packed with 3(and the myth stated Three!)
I'm sure you watched the show.. check out a repeat to see all the facts you overlooked.
Wolfy
Overlooking fact or not, the myth is bs and it is busted. I have been shooting a long long time, I hunt with a muzzle loader cause supositories are not sporting. Oh and yes a pure powder load of 80grains at pb range would tear skin, tivo is a great thing. If you watch it in slow motion the butts didnt penetrate at all you can see all three spread bounce off of the chest. You know with a sternumn and ribs in the mix you would be alive, blind but alive. |
Senior Member
Registered: 03-09-04
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quote: #2 The myth stated cigerette butts, not pyrodex bullets.
Pyrodex is a common black powder substitute that is cleaner burning. It is not a bullet, but a pellet of certain weight that is the equivalent of a certain amount of BP. If you load 2 pellets, but nothing else, it's possible for the first pellet to propel the second one out of the barrel before it has a chance to burn completely. It might then act like a bullet. |
Senior Member
Registered: 09-28-06
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I would have predicted the results the boys obtained.
Lightweight projectiles loose energy and velocity very rapidly.
The closer you get to the muzzle of the firearm, the more dangerous they become. As has been noted, blank cartridges are quite dangerous at contact range.
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Junior Member
Registered: 08-12-07
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what happend to all of the reserch they have always done, this episode has just been testing ( not that I mind. )
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Senior Member
Registered: 03-09-04
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quote: nsttrack: Just being nosy here, but have you ever used Pyrodex?
Yep. At the urging of a friend, I took a short foray into BP shooting, got a replica Hawken from Cabela's and gave it a shot. I'm a lefty and the first mistake I made was not specifying the LH model when I ordered it. Not a big deal, just annoying. I used Pyrodex, both loose and pellets, from the get-go and realize the problems, and performance, are similar to Goex BP but never compared the corrosive qualities of the two. However, it is listed as a BP substitute and subject to less restrictive handling and storage requirements. I have fired two pellets without a ball and the second pellet looked like a tracer as it shot out still burning. I never developed a real enthusiasm for the sport and sold the whole works a few months later. Reloading for target and trap shooting is more than enough to keep me busy. |
Senior Member
Registered: 01-21-07
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I predicted the results of this testing. The cigarette ends, regardless, do not have the mass or the structural integrity to act as projectiles. I have to agree that TIVO is fantastic. When they moved closer, the cigarette ends became superfluous. The force of the powder charge alone did the damage, just as they would had the butts not been present, and just as what happened to Jon Hexum when he was fooling around with a .44 calibre blank. Not all blanks contain pieces of plastic. I have seen blanks with cardboard waddin as well as what looked like plaster of paris. I have seen blank cartridges that use nothing but a very tight crimp, such as the ones used for firing an old-fashioned rifle grenade. No, the butts did not penetrate the body substitute, the damage was done by the powder charge alone.
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Senior Member
Registered: 08-05-05
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MY POST WAS DELETED!
I'll try again. This was NOT a myth. It is a TRUE STORY. It happened to 2 guys from New Jersey.
Let's see how long this post lasts.
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Senior Member
Registered: 08-05-05
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Just google Darwin Awards. Here is the true story
11 February 2001, New Jersey) Two drunks were goofing around, when one challenged the other to shoot him with cigarette butts "to see what it would feel like." His friend obligingly loaded an antique rifle with cigarette butts, placing black powder behind the butts to make sure they left the barrel of the gun. He then shot his friend from a distance of seven feet. The projectiles penetrated the ribcage of the thirty-one-year-old who had issued the challenge, and he died of three cigarette butts to the heart.
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Junior Member
Registered: 08-16-07
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this was jsut a thought that came to me. would wides be deadly becuase they would pack much more thightly than normal butts would and they would weigh much more than a normal one as well. again just a thought  .*´¨) ¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨) (¸.•´ (¸.• Zenon¸.•*´¨) (Zee'nin Cove'a'letch'co) |
Junior Member
Registered: 08-16-07
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quote: saiyanveg:
I had heard a story of an actor killed accidentally when a gun loaded with blanks was fired point blank range at his head.
Yes, this actor's name was Jon-Erik Hexum, and he did the firing himself. Here is some info from IMDb: Hexum became bored with the extensive delays and jokingly put a prop .44 magnum revolver to his temple and pulled the trigger. The gun fired, and the wadding from the blank cartridge shattered his skull, whereupon the mortally injured Hexum was rushed via ambulance to hospital to undergo extensive surgery. Despite five hours of work, the chief surgeon Dr David Ditsworth, described the damage to Hexum's brain as life ending, and one week later on October 18th, 1984, he was taken off life support and pronounced dead. However, Hexum's commitment to organ donation, meant five other lives were assisted or saved with organs harvested from him. The youthful & charming Hexum was dead at only 26 years of age. |
Junior Member
Registered: 08-16-07
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i was thinking:
The people were drinking right perhaps they used too much, or too little gun powder.
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Junior Member
Registered: 08-16-07
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There could be a big differance between firing cigarette butts at someone who is unclothed, like the ballistics gel, and someone who has a shirt, and maybe overall bibs.
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Junior Member
Registered: 08-16-07
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this is busted. very poor science here. How did expert policeman confirm such nonsense.
He should know that firing without projectile from that distance is lethal. The proof is they should have fired a blank as a control.
shame on jamie and adam for such egregious mistake.
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Junior Member
Registered: 08-16-07
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someone already said their was a rumor about an actor being killed by a blank and unless television and law and order has lied to me it should be true there was an episode were they showed a man getting shot by a blank, that died but also i saw a western show(not on TV it was like a fake shootout) were they shot a pop can point blank, with a blank, and it split the can in two so ive seen in person that it can happen
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Junior Member
Registered: 04-10-05
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I somehow doubt two drunken hillbillies out game hunting were doing so with a muzzle-loading black powder rifle.
What I think happened was, in their drunken stupor, one of the men put cigarette butts down his rifle barrel and shot his friend with cigarette butts followed by a rifle bullet and that is what killed him.
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Senior Member
Registered: 06-08-07
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Yet, one more myth tested that leaves me wondering, Did they check newspaper accounts, police investigations, autopsies, or forensic science?
I'm thinking drunk that overloaded the powder, picked up butts off ground & maybe other debris. but also as mentioned in another post, what brand were the cigarettes? Parliaments were one of the brands that had a plastic piece in the filter to supposibly reduce tar.
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Senior Member
Registered: 12-03-05
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As some previous poster already mentioned, they should have tried the test without the butts at point blank range.
The blast from that gun ripped the dummy apart, not the butts.
The gel is nice for use in determining penetration, but it doesn't act the way the human body does for most things.
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Senior Member
Registered: 05-13-06
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quote: Ever heard of a spit patch? In the muzzle loading days folks would often spit on the patch before seating the bullet. It lubed the patch and softened the fouling from the previous shot.
Thats the way I do it and it is the way I was taught. Very effective. |
Senior Member
Registered: 01-21-07
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tigershark, the rifle used was a replica .50 calibre rifle. This means the bore is one half inch across. How is loading the cigarette butts one at a time going to make it more accurate? Cigarette butts are more like .30 calibre. When the Army used the M-1 Garand, and soldiers field-stripped their butts, a common practice was to stick the filter in the muzzle of their rifle, then run it through with a ramrod just prior to inspection, even if it meant getting gigged if caught. The three butts had to be loaded en bloc, or the gases would pretty much blow right past the butts.
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