The reason the slide didn't come off when the mute exploded with the ballistics gel mouth on the mouthpiece, was that when the slide is all the way in, it is locked. It takes alot of force to unlock it, and this locking mechanism is designed to keep people from just walking by and wrenching the slide off the trombone.

As a brass musician, the myth wouldn't make a difference if it worked or not. The reason is that the myth stated that it happened at the end of the 1812 Overture. Having performed this work several times; there aren't mutes used in any of the brass parts at the end of the piece. So the trombone player (although he/she would be the one who would try) wouldn't even have a mute in his trombone.

The lip piece gets wet and creates a seal and the player would be blowing out so it might be blaseble

Pick pick pick.. busted.
Wolfy

When I was in High School I played in the band, and I played trombone and baritone. I was wondering, if the person who was holding the trombone was blowing into the mouthpiece and was creating pressure in the opposite direction that the explosion was in the slide. Would that work?

I believe the Myth is plausible. Being a trombonist myself, the seal that is made with the lips, using saliva is pretty strong. Even though ballistic Grant's lips were stuck against the mouthpiece, it still takes out the actual human element. I know the myth won’t be tried with a real person, but think of it this way. When you’re playing a trombone, you must create an air tight seal between your lips and the mouthpiece. Soldering the mouthpiece shut is what I think to be the closest way of showing the seal, and when the mouthpiece is sealed, the slide did fly off. That is why the myth should be plausible. trmptr4484 is also correct, a mute would not be used at the end of the 1812 overture.

#1: They probably did not lock the slide because they probably do not know what it is. One main thing, however, is the fact that a trombone in that condition will be bent or have dents. If you have never played a trombone, you can tell the difference between a perfect condition slide and one that has a minor dent. Even with lube, it would be difficult to blow the slide off. In the end, they did.

which brings me to point #2: contrary to the mythbusters belief, I latex bust of grant cannot seal a trombone mouthpiece like an actual human. In fact, in order to acheive a good sound, the lips must seal off the entire mouthpiece. If they do not you will produce an airy tone as adam demonstrated at the music store. As the welding filled in all the crack and sealed the mouthpiece, a humans lips would do the same as well.

#3: The myth stated that the trombonist used firecrackers. I have never been able to buy black powder at the local firecracker store, but I can buy rockets and other propelled firecrackers. Why limit the myth to blackcats when there is such a wide array of options. A rocket may provide enough back pressure to allow the slide to shoot off.

BTW: It is irrevalent that the 1812 overture does not use mutes in the end as their are cannons firing. Why not have a little fun, If the military can fire a cannon why not fire off your trombone. The myth is not if there are muted parts at the end. the myth is, is it possible to blow the slide off a trombone while blowing the mute into the audience.

If your mouth is "sealed" to the mouth peice it only means the air pressure is not able to get out of the trombone. But there is one other place the air could have gone. The air could have exscaped down into the players lungs. Considering that they could not replicate the results until the mouth peice was completly sealed with a weld, busts this myth.

I'm willing to accept the myth being busted for two reasons: 1) I also don't think the trombones are muted in the end of 1812 overture and 2) the whole scenario is totally unbelievable anyway! However, I don't see how they can possibly think that an inanimate ballistics gel mouth can in any way replicate the real-life air pressure and seal created by a human's mouth on a mouthpiece. They didn't show me anything that proved the cast's mouth had any kind of seal on the mouthpiece - it looked like the trombone was just propped up on the mouth! Because of this, I'm not happy that they simply brushed off the results of the soldered mouthpiece test where the slide did get blown off.

The biggest objection I had with the show was the lube on the slide. I've used typical high school horns and some college and semi-professional horns. One thing is clear, the more professional players keep their horns in tip top condition, which means the slide moves effortlessly. That only comes from frequent cleaning and lubing, not what you'll find as the cheapest used horn thats been sitting at a music store for months or years.

test_subject, Have you ever played a brass intrument? A mouth can seal the mouthpiece quite well, even if you are not playing. If you know have an instrument is constructed, their actually a taper in the lead pipe which can make it very difficult for the air to reach all the way back to the mouthpiece. The air could not have escaped into the players lungs as it would just blow the trombone off the players embroucher because, if playing, the aperture is relatively small.

So what your saying is that the small tube that your breath goes through when playing, is too small to let air go through it. That makes no sense at all. Even if that was true, than sealing the mouth peice would not make any difference at all. But it did.

When the pressure wave hits the wide part of the mouthpiece, some of the pressure bounces back. This is part of the mechanism that creates a resonance, and makes the horn maintain a tone.

I think this myth has not been properly tested for two reasons. First, the test is not conducted under realistic conditions. When the powder is ignited during the test, the slide is stationary. This means that the force of the explosion has to be strong enough to overcome the static friction of the slide tube. Assuming the trombone player was actually playing, there is a good chance that he was moving the slide when the powder ignited. This would create a condition of kinetic friction which has a much lower resistance and is easier to overcome than static friction. Also the assumption that the slide, once ejected, would have enough force to literally knock the conductor off of the stage is ridiculous. The conductor's reflex, in response to the explosion and a projectile coming towards him, would, however, be enough to give the appearance of him being knocked of of the stage.

Even if they created a test where they had recreated a person blowing through the mouth piece, do you really think that a person could blow hard enough to counter act a black powder explosion?

I'm a trombonist as well, and there are some definite problems with the trombone they used and the results they got.

1) Like somebody above said, a professional trombonist keeps their slide in perfect condition, and when it's lubricated properly it takes incredibly little force to move. Even tilting the horn downward just a few degrees will cause the slide to start falling off. At the same time, an old beat up trombone, like one that someone would sell for blowing up, probably has several dents in the slide. Even one small dent has a very significant effect on the motion of the slide, and if the outer part of the slide (the part that you move with your arm) is at all bent, moving it is very rough. You can see when the Mythbusters handle the slide that it doesn’t move freely at all, even with lube.

2) I believe the slide WOULD fly off if a large enough firecracker (or maybe rocket) is used. It's possible to get a mute lodged into the bell hard enough that it's very difficult to pull it out. There have been several times where I pushed it in too hard while playing and couldn't get it out before the next non-muted section of music.
So let's say, hypothetically, that the mute is lodged quite well into the bell. Cornoguy was right, if that much air pressure is headed through the instrument and it reaches the lips, the aperture of the players lips is very small and will let very little air through, even less if the person is actually blowing into the instrument. Also, the space inside bell is considerably larger than that of the rest of the instrument, obviously. Professional model trombones have much larger bells than the small one the Mythbusters used. Bass trombone bells are larger still. So the closer you get to the mouthpiece, the smaller the tubing gets. So you have a larger volume of air rushing toward a smaller space, and I'm not a chemist but I believe that creates a lot of pressure when combustion is involved. So if the slide is in working order and lubed well (which it would be in a professional concert situation), I believe it would have the pressure to push the slide off the horn. I dunno if it would have the speed to reach the conductor, because the trombone section sits in the back of a traditional orchestra.

3) The fact that a mute isn’t required in the music is irrelevant. The player could have had the mute on stage for another piece they played earlier. The slide would also not be locked in a performance situation.

I just wish we could’ve seen what actually happened in a real performance situation. I don’t care if the myth were still busted, but this wasn’t even given a chance to be plausible. Also, the myth as I originally heard it was different. A bass trombonist was trying to launch a mute over the orchestra like a rocket. The slide leaving the horn was only a result of his letting go when the heat and smoke reached his face. This version is in Darwin Awards (http://darwinawards.com/legends/legends1998-17.html).

Agreed, especially with Cornoboy's comments.

I'm not a trombonist or anything, but I'm not a complete musical doof either.


I know for a fact, that the trombonist does not play every note in the fully retracted position. Some have said that it locks at this position which makes the Re-Visit even less reliable, but regardless of that, The mythbusters did not even begin to scratch the surface of the plausibility of this myth despite 2 revisits. I would venture to guess that if the thing was at midway or extended as it would be when a trombonist is blowing air into the the trombone and playing it, the results would be vastly different, especially if it was a new, not old, trombone, as any respectable orchestra would be using.

I don't think it requires a third revisit, because the welded version at the end did enough good to prove that it is plausible, the only thing is that Adam & Jamie didn't declare it plausible.

So, on the next revisit, perhaps 30 seconds to explain that they didn't do it properly, again, and that its actually plausible, is more than enough, theres no reason to put someone in danger or make an overly elaborate rig to prove something that we already know simply by analyzing what they did wrong.

Anyway, I was compelled to post this because I found it hard to believe they thought, even in a revisit, that they came close to getting it right on this one, and i'm glad to see others have noticed the same flaws.

Otherwise, keep up the good work.

So you guys are saying an explosion less than a foot and a half away from your face will not remove a mouth piece from your lips? Not only that by why would any musician allow an explosion to take place inside an expensive instrument? I baby my guitars like they were my children. I'm sure a professional trombonist owns a trombone atleast 3 or 4 thousand dollars. Musicians do not get paid that much f.y.i. I would never blow anything up near any of my instruments let alone inside of it.

You would be surprised how well professional orchestra players really make. Quality brass/woodwind/string players are much harder to find than say guitarists or drummers. Also, the intent was to shoot a mute over the orchestra, this not so smart player was not anticipating much damage to the trombone.

Even if the explosion did push the mouthpiece away from the player's face, the initial pressure from the mouth blocking it would be very high.

The Problem is.....I got the Impression they really didn't want to do this Re-Visit....As they just bought the 2 'bones strapped them to the stand and shoved Pyrodex into them.......

They were trying to show that THEY couldn't get the result we said they should by using "the Mythbusters way"......

they need to do a 3rd Revisit.......Fork over the couple hundred bucks for a Brand New Student Trombone, Figure out just how much Back Pressure a Professional Trombonist has while playing, find a way to produce it, and THEN..Most importantly...put either firecrackers or a Rocket into the Mute....DO NOT Pack it with Pyrodex like they're doing....

Also some parameters need to be set.....#1 for a Month Prior to the Actual Experiment, Someone needs to Oil up the Slide and move it around a bit, at least Once a Day EVERY DAY Leading up to it.....#2 the Slide needs to be placed into a Playing Position.....Where I don't care..as Long as it's not full closed....and Finally, as I asid previously...Be Realistic about the Thing...DO NOT PACK THE BELL WITH PYRODEX.....

No Trombonist is going to put any form of Black Powder into his orn the Potential fo ra Catastrophic explosion is too great....a Few Firecrackers or a Rocket Firework will do the track.......