I don't think they doing as much research as they o once did..

The line gun they made wasnt like the one batman uses... batman has a small drill with a diamond tip to first drill in to the wall and then has two prong opening to allow it to have a good grip to the wall...

Also they didnt complete the myths themself. The first one they didnt even bother to firing .Which is part of the myth...

Also they didnt even bother to go find a weaker wall..

It look like the mythbuster are getting lazy now..

I like the fact that they tried to scale the building themselves. But, you knew it was coming, the myth calls for a person in extemely good physical condition. The sonar emiting flying mammal man trained since he was 8 years old, at least that is how the story goes. Get somebody who does rock climbing or search and rescue in the mountains to retry this myth. Also, look into devices that can be attached to the shoes and knees to help a person climb a building.

Just some ideas.

Yea i agree with you..In the days past.They use to go to People in the fields and ask them..Even have them show them how it done...

Like i said mythbusters are becoming lazy when it come to stuff like this...

Now the one used in the movie I'm thinking of may have just been strictly for looks but in Diamonds are Forever, James Bond used a gun that shot a climbers grappling device to climb up to Blofeld's penthouse. I believe climbers actually have a device like that. Could something like that be used rather than just a nail?

I agree that Bruce Wayne would create a much better version with his vast resources. Maybe a synthetic spider silk rope with a diamond tipped grapple?

when adam was shooting the nail into the wall, what he needed was a modified version of that gun that could shoot a little bit bigger spear of metal, and with it being a lil bit bigger, have spring action sides that would allow it to grip the wall insides and prevent it from moving out like a snakes fangs to do its prey

quote:

Originally posted by rka1010:
I found Adam and Jamie's attempt at this entertaining, but the fact that they would bust this myth on their timeline and budget is both arrogant and ludicrous. Remember that Batman's alter ego was the billionaire Bruce Wayne, which is how all of his equipment was financed. Do you not think that a billion dollars couldn't be put into research to find something exponentially better than what Adam built in one day from junk parts?!

Bruce Wayne is a fictional character while Adam and Jamie are real people. This is why they tried the rigs they designed and built and didn't go knocking on Bruce Wayne's door and ask him how he did it.

jusjon17,

The one Batman uses is fiction. They were trying to recreate fictional devices with real world limitations. The weaker wall would have just proved the point that it wouldn't hold Adam's weight.

MythMod

They said that this myth was busted but that is not true becase jamie's rig worked so that means that it is plausable not busted.

Jamie's rig worked only AFTER changing the cable. He also had no reverse to get down. Only worked one way. Batman's supposedly lowered him as well.

MythMod

"Jamie's rig worked only AFTER changing the cable. He also had no reverse to get down. Only worked one way. Batman's supposedly lowered him as well.

MythMod"

I don't mean to quibble, but are you saying that Jamie wouldn't have been capable of designing a reverse or changing the line (which he did). I've always thought the Mythbuster's standard was "Can it work/Can it be done?", not will it work the first time, no revisions, no retrys.

-ATX Maker

First, Jamie's ascender: I thought it was spot on, very good for a short timeframe, proof of concept design. I couldn't tell from the video, but it appeared the transmission he used to step down the high-rpm motor was a set of stacked gears. If so, it may have been easier to go with a worm gear; that gives you the drastic reduction in rpm/drastic increase in torque, but in a smaller package with less contact friction loss. Plus, since in this case you don't need or want the power transmission to go the other way, it is a great way of locking the line without relying on the motor, and it allows you to offload the tension from the motor to the thrust bearings on the worm screw. One thing that supprised me was the size of the line used, and/or the line breaking. I would have thought that he would use Spectra, which has a 250 - 300 lb. working load at diameters thinner than cotton kitchen twine. With spectra, you could also decrease the takeup drum diameter for the same line length, which would increase the mechanical advantage (or, really, reduce the negative mechanical advantage by reducing the drum radius) and possibly allow for a smaller motor. Other easy addons to make it smaller given the time and money would be going with Litium Ion/Polymer batteries for increased energy density and possibly moving to an axial winding system (like a spinning reel for fishing, only with the spool instead of the bail turning) to make it more compact.

On Adam's grapple gun: This was one I felt could have benifitted from more definition of needs and more experimentation. Part of the failure of Adam's design was in the modification of the nail gun. 22 blank nail guns rely on a very high peak pressure over a very short period of time (the blank going off) occuring between an object with very little mass (the nail, which also concentrates its force in the small area at the tip during impact) and an object with a much greater mass (the nail gun apparatus + the hammer). It appears Adam stripped as much as possible off of the nail gun to get it to fly right, which would greatly reduce the force transferred to the nail and its ability to be driven into the wall. But even if it had successfully been driven into the wall, we were never shown in testing prior to the final that a properly driven nail in concrete would support the weight of a human (easy: concrete block, nail, put on forklift in workshop, see if Adam can hang from it). To make matters worse, using it the way he did (taught zip line config, tied at both ends) is even worse, because even though the line is tied at both ends, each end is actally pulled *more* than it would be just holding his dead weight alone. Back of the napkin calculations based on what's listed in the Backstage Handbook on bridling lines says that if we assume Adam to be 250lbs or so, the pull on each end of the line would be half that, or 125lbs, *times* the multiplication factor based on the degree of deflection between the lines to the load (Adam) and a straight line drawn between the end points. The smallest angle listed is 10 degrees, with a multiplication factor of 5.76. That means if the line between the tie-off and the nail in the wall was fairly taught initially, at the point Adam stepped off the platform the loading on the nail in the wall was probibally *at least* 720 lbs. For any anchor to have held in that zipline config, it most likely would have had to have been able to hold a verticle dead load (load parallel to nail axis, not perpendicular) equivalent to both Mythbusters, the entire build team, and probablly the Mythtern as well. By establishing exactly what would be necessary at the beginning, it would have made it easier to succeed. Off the top of my head, I think it could have been approached like this: What you want is the greatest purchase in a material such as concrete. You want a deep hole while still using a man-portable device. Therefore, the projectile should be as thin as possible, as dense as possible, and travel as fast as possible. You want the impact end to be designed to penetrate efficiently (check out various projectiles, drill bits, nails, etc, experiment with accute or obtuse angles and various hardened materials), some sort of wedging device after the impact head so that the projectile locks into the hole it has created, and possibly some way to augment the weight, like a lead core or using tungsten. You could base a projectile firing device around a firearm, or go with fast release nitrogen and borrow some of Grant's stuff. You could even go super pressure by using dry ice as your pressure source and creating a super reinforced pressure vessel. I wouldn't mind seeing this one revisited.

-ATX Maker

Jamie's rig worked only AFTER changing the cable. He also had no reverse to get down. Only worked one way. Batman's supposedly lowered him as well.

MythMod"

"I don't mean to quibble, but are you saying that Jamie wouldn't have been capable of designing a reverse or changing the line (which he did). I've always thought the Mythbuster's standard was "Can it work/Can it be done?", not will it work the first time, no revisions, no retrys.

-ATX Maker"

He had said nothing bout jamie being incapable of designing anything for it, when he said he had no reverse to get down he was saying that they had no preconcieved idea focused on lowering, only lifting so they didnt devise a device that could do both, nothing said bout jamie having an inability

Just a word about safety Good job Jamie for having a knife with you! NEVER use ropes and harneses without a knife on your person that you can get to easily. You truely never know when you might have to cut your way out of something. But I have a concern about the belay (spell?) system. You should ALWAYS have your belay person tied in, never free standing. A person's weight increases as they fall, we all saw Adam end up in the air when Jamie fell. So, just a word from an overly safety-conscious fan who really likes you guys and doesn't want to see anybody get seriously injured or die. ALWAYS ANCHOR YOUR BELAY PERSON! (that goes for all you rock climbers,too!). Take care, guys and gals.

Never before have I watched an episode and cringed at the flagrant lack of safety as much as I did on this one. As one person earlier noted Jamie unsteadily hacking off the grappling line that is mere inches from the safety rope and smashing his face with his winch was pretty bad. Jez, use the lift or something. Add to that, Adam flinging what is basically a loaded .22 around and the build team nearly being decapitated by a flying cannon and you've got a formula for cancellation due to decapitation. If they were a rock band, their drummer would have died on this show for sure. I love the show and I don't want it to end, so guys please be a little more careful.

FatherOfInvention: Sorry, I may have been over-reading. I was assuming that MythMod was responding to Mythfan2000. I read that exchange as essentially:

Mythfan2000 - the myth should be listed as plausable since Jamie's part worked

MythMod - Jamie's part didn't work since the cable broke the first time and it wouldn't lower him down; Batman's lowered, Jamie's didn't, therefor it didn't work.

ATX Maker (me) - Jamie's did work, maybe just not the first time. Nothing Jamie ran into could be seen as something that could not be easily overcome, therefor I agree with Mythfan2000 that Jamie's portion worked and the myth overall should be at minimum plausable.

If I misinterpreted the exchange, I apologize.

-ATX Maker

its all good bro

Adam could've used a metal cased wall anchor (they have plastic ones that hold 125lbs) and sharpened it to go through wood. We didn't see if they did tests on wood/drywall, but to be honest, I think it'd be more common than concrete.

[And i know that just because we didn't see them doesn't mean they didn't happen]

Good episode. And yeah, anchor your belay person. D'oh.

They sell spears that are about 2-4 inch long and about a inch around or so..That have a switch on it that once when it pierce an object it opens to metal hooks. Which would give him the support that a nail wouldnt...

I just dont understand why would he use a nail? He should of know it would of piece in to the wall with enough force to stay with him on the line..

Also myth mod i get what you saying..but when you going to basic something on something els..Even if it not real..you could of gotten some idea from what they did in the comic book and used it in real life practices..Yes i get they cant go out and buy a drill like they used in the comic..But you allways should try to use what info you can gather...

Also i dont know if it was just me..But was everyone working with half of brain power that the normally use?? I mean they screwed up a few time and the whole not reinforcing the cannon in the first place....

quote:

Originally posted by cipher1024:
Never before have I watched an episode and cringed at the flagrant lack of safety as much as I did on this one. As one person earlier noted Jamie unsteadily hacking off the grappling line that is mere inches from the safety rope and smashing his face with his winch was pretty bad. Jez, use the lift or something. Add to that, Adam flinging what is basically a loaded .22 around and the build team nearly being decapitated by a flying cannon and you've got a formula for cancellation due to decapitation. If they were a rock band, their drummer would have died on this show for sure. I love the show and I don't want it to end, so guys please be a little more careful.

As a mountain rescue profesional, I cringed the moment Jamie pulled out the knife! We never use knives around life/safety ropes unless there is absolutely the last resort. Watch the replay and note how close Jamie came to cutting his belay line.

When you actually test it, it takes very little cutting force to sever a rope in tension...just a slight touch will do it.

Jamie was just inches from falling to the ground!

The problem with Adam rig is common sense. The concrete nail gun he was experimenting with relies on the operator of the tool to be putting back pressure on the nail so that it gets full force. They were talking about Newton's Law earlier in the show and it has the same relevance in the failure of Adam's rig