[quote]TANGIBLE EVIDENCE.[/quote]

Geez, I don't know, maybe that the citation that is entered into the records,usually after being read at the service persons funeral, and that there were eyewitnesses, and the fact that they don't award the CMH for unsubstantiated acts, that should be TANGIBLE EVIDENCE for anyone.

Edit to use right definition of a word.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: rick4070,

[quote]Geez, I don't know, maybe that the citation that is entered into the records, and that there were eyewitnesses, and the fact that they don't award the CMH for unsubstantiated acts, that should be INTANGIBLE EVIDENCE for anyone.[/quote]

We have that kind of stuff for the Loch Ness Monster, though

[quote]We have that kind of stuff for the Loch Ness Monster, though[/quote]

Do we have the dead body of Nessie, in a coffin, with the family mourning their loss?

With the dead body of a grenade hero- how does that prove it saved his buddies?

Don't see any other Nessies around as eye witnesses saying that nessie is real.

[quote]Don't see any other Nessies around as eye witnesses saying that nessie is real.[/quote]

You've lost me.

Please remember that the myth isn't "Has anyone ever jumped on a grenade?"

The myth was, "Does jumping on a grenade save your buddies around you?"

[quote]"Does jumping on a grenade save your buddies around you?"[/quote]


Why didn't they give any credit to the people that have done it?

How many civilians have done this?

It is pretty much exclusively a military thing.

The mythbusters called it a "Hollywood" myth.

I don't like being lied to, and the producers lied to me when they said that the ep would never be aired.

As far as I am concerned they have lost all credibility.

Before, I was a strong advocate of their methods, not now, they went too far.

If you want to think that it O.K. to test this fine, that is your right.

I am not going to change your opinion.

My opinion is not going to change either.

Ok, I'm sure this has probably already been said... But jumping on a grenade, a burning piece of magnesium, or a number of other nasty nasties will save your buddies.

Want proof? Read most of the Medal of Honor citations out there. A word of caution, USUALLY the person who receives a medal of honor is dead. But his folks are alive. Hence the Medal of Honor.

Well, this is my third try at getting a message posted. A visual scan of a 1994 publication listing all Medal of Honor recipents up to that time and the official citations for their actions shows that 24 of the 432 Medals of Honor awarded during World War II went to soldiers who jumped on grenades (plus one case where a soldier sheltered his buddies from a mine). Of 127 Medals of Honor in the Korean conflict, 21 went to soldiers who jumped on grenades. The percentage was even higher in the Vietnam war, 57 out of 239 Medals of Honor were to men who jumped on grenades, plus another 5 who sheltered comrades from mines, and 4 who absorbed the blast from "other explosives" such as boobytraps. Leroy Johnson on Leyte in the Philippines on Dec. 15, 1944, covered two grenades with his body. On Sept. 7, 1951, near Pyongyang, Korea, Bille G.Kanell jumped on one grenade and, according to the citation, saved two buddies. Badly wounded, he then rolled onto a second grenade to protect his friends, this time at the cost of his own life.
Another outstanding feat was by Jack Lucus who lied about his age to join the Marines at age 14. Assigned to a non-combatant unit in Hawaii, Lucus went AWOL and stowed away on a troop transport carrying Marines to the invasion of Iwo Jima. On Feb. 20, 1945, six days after his 17th birthday, Lucus threw himself on one grenade and pulled a second under him. Only one of the grenades exploded, and he was credited with saving three other Marines through his action. Lucus initially was left for dead, but later was found to be still alive and underwent 22 operations for his injuries. He was the only Medal of Honor winner to enroll in high school after his discharge from service.

[quote]Want proof? Read most of the Medal of Honor citations out there[/quote]

That's not proof.

Look- what's the difference between these 4 statements:

"I guarantee you this perpetual motion machine works."

"I just saw the Loch Ness Monster!"

"I heard some guy ate pop rocks and soda and blew up."

"Sir, I saw this man take a grenade for our entire platoon. Make sure he's given a medal."

ALL OF THESE STATEMENTS ARE THE SAME IN TERMS OF CREDIBILITY

How do you know it's true? You don't have tangible evidence that it worked.

Stabwounds, why don't you go practice your ambulance-chasing-courtroom lawyer cr@p somewhere else?

Nobody here who has posted in objection to the airing of the grenade episode is going to be swayed by your shallow observations.

[quote]Stabwounds, why don't you go practice your ambulance-chasing-courtroom lawyer cr@p somewhere else?

Nobody here who has posted in objection to the airing of the grenade episode is going to be swayed by your shallow observations.[/quote]

Hey, let's not insult each other.

I think most people will agree that on mythbusters, eye witness testimony is NEVER enough to confirm the myth and call it quits- In fact almost every myth starts with testimony and words like "According to..." or "Some say that..." or "It's rumored that..." or "Experts say..."

And, as offensive as it may be, the medal of honor is no exception. It is only based on witness testimony and has been replicated in movies. So they still have to test it.

Stab,
I meant to insult your methods.
Not you as a person.

I'm sure your a nice guy and some-one out there loves you. I do mean that.

What I find objectionable is that in your approach to prove your point, you are discounting the testimony of experienced combat veterans and the organizations they belong to.

Yes, the mythbusters testing the grenade covering thing was done with the intent to provide tangible evidence that these men did not sacrifice their bodies and/or souls in vain.
This is good.

Calling it a hollywood myth, is tantamount to saying these men never did this. That this sacrifice is only a false hollywood contruct concieved to wow the viewer.

THAT is what I found objectionable.

To deliberately ignore these men is rather disrespectful, regardless of ones own political views. Those men did not belong to a football team or a theatrical group.

The words,"Comrade", or,"Brothers in arms", only scratch the surface of the depth of purpose and commitment that fighting men and women experience.

[quote]... you are discounting the testimony of experienced combat veterans and the organizations they belong to.[/quote]

No I'm not. I'm sure it's all true! But it doesn't confirm the myth.

[quote]To deliberately ignore these men is rather disrespectful, regardless of ones own political views. [/quote]

huh? political views?

[quote]The words,"Comrade", or,"Brothers in arms", only scratch the surface of the depth of purpose and commitment that fighting men and women experience.[/quote]

see- why do I get the feeling that this whole debate means more to you than just a TV show? It's like every person on here "protesting" is just trying to make a statement about how much they love the military. I love them too, but what does that have to do with confirming/busting myths?

You're too attached to this idea emotionally to understand that a medal of honor PROVES NOTHING

Mr. Stabwound,
Of course it means more to me than just a tv show.

The Medal of Honor is not some piece of chest candy handed out to anyone. It recogizes exceptional people.

Calling it a hollywood myth is disregarding these people.

Test anything and everything. Doesn't matter.
If someone has doubts about something, test away.
But call it what it is.

I also voice my opinion when the MB's call other factual things and events,"Myths".

Although I shudder at your lack of respect for this medal, I do understand what you are saying, from a PURE scientific standpoint, personal testimony is not 100% proof.

Unfortunately, this issue is so tightly interwoven with emotion it is not as easily seperated from the pure science as other things.

You seem to understand why some of us take issue with,"Hollywood Myth". You don't agree with us.
Some of us don't agree with you. Fine. Cool. Drive on.

The fact that you belive that this is a myth makes me mad. People died to save thier friends and you think that is just hollywood magic. I want to see how many people would hurt you over that. how dare you think this is a myth why dont you talk to soldiers and ask if thier friend got on a grenade and everyone died. soldiers fighting for thier freedom died like that and you think this is just hollywood magic.
You should go into Iraq and see what happens when a grenade come see how many soldiers want to save thier fellow men and you wodl most likely think don't its just hollywood magic.
Why dont you just think about this note and think how many people died by jumping on grenades, then think how many people were saved.
You AREN'T AMERICAN ATOM AND JAMIE HOW DARE YOU THINKHATTHIS IS A MYTH.

There are two definitions of myth:
1. A widely told story that is false.
2. Any widely told story, regardless of whether it is true.
We use the first definition when we say "It's just a myth." This show uses the second one. We can see that when it says a myth is "confirmed". A good example is the case of the lawyer who ran against a full length window high in a skyscraper and broke through it, falling to his death. After running their tests, the MythBusters said it was "plausible". Then they used newspaper reports to show it actually happened, making it "confirmed". They should have done the same thing with this episode: list some examples where it actually happened.

I have great respect for the medal of honor. But no scientist in his right mind will take it as fact. It is only based on eye witness testimony.

And although the medal of honor are factual accounts of incredibly noble human sacrifice- they do not scientifically confirm the myth.

Please, please remember: The myth being tested here is not, "Has anyone ever done this?"

The myth is, "Does it work?"

Hi. I love the show-even watched it while in Iraq on OIF 05-07. Many of your posters have commented on the large number of Medal of Honor (the word Congressional is not part of the title) recipients who were recognized for this very action. I refuse to believe that Adam and Jamie simply find this to be a myth, and, if they do, they've gotten quite an education from loyal viewers. Like many others who have posted in this forum I too am puzzled as to why interceptor body armor (or even Dragon Skin) was not worn by the test dummy. Also, an awfully large number of attacks in iraq take place on (semi)paved roads or while clearing buildings. Can we retry this "myth" on a hard surface, an enclosed area, and while the dummy is armored?

Thanks

Oldocp

I read a post regarding the reliability of the Congressional Medal of Honor. The CMH is our country's highest award and are fairly well documented. Usually men or women who receive this award and are still alive, are in fact, pretty surprised that they are still alive. You can review CMH citations via the DoD, or the Veterans Assoicaiton. Also copies are kept in the Library of Congress. Pretty reliable stuff. I have had the privledge of working with two CMH winners. My SgtMaj, who jumped on a grenade to save his friends and a staff seargent. Do not discount the validity of the CMH.
Thanks