catprotector, thank you, your cat defense is admirable and what I expected. I like the companionship that dogs give and also that they do not eat their young like cats do. Also, I would be interested in reviewing your statistics, especially the one about more cats raised as pets. But, as I read that comment more closely and the one right after it, I infer you're actually commenting on the pets that are actually in homes, rather than pets at large (those living outside of the house as well.)
Actually those stats are from cats presently in people's households. That was taken last year from I believe Cat Fancy or one of the other cat related web sites.
I fully expect dog lovers to say "no way" to more cats being in homes than dogs but it's true especially when you have condo and apartment dwellers. One web site (if it makes you even happier) claims that the number is even closer than that where there are 60 million cats living in households as opposed to 55 million dogs. I think every group that takes the time to do the numbers will have different ones.
I'd like to know where you got the idea that cats eat their young? Next thing you'll say is black cats are truly bad luck.
"That was taken last year from I believe Cat Fancy or one of the other cat related web sites." Again I say, I would like to review your source before I can accept it.
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I'd like to know where you got the idea that cats eat their young? Next thing you'll say is black cats are truly bad luck.
One: When I was probably about 8 or 10 years old I'd come home from school every night to see the kitten newborns. One night I came home and all I saw was the heads and feet. Two: It is common knowledge (I'm really surprized you was not aware) that big male cats eat their young to have the mother for themselves. Neither of these animals are clean, I have watched both of them "l*i*c*k" themselves.
Why do they consider black cats bad luck? I'm sure there's a reason for it somewhere.
You're doubting Cat Fancy? They're the top cat magazine in the world. I think you can trust them but since you are a dog lover I'm sure you'd believe a dog magazine if they reported the opposite. As for cats eating their young I'd like to see a reliable source here. I could understand if a cat was starving and in a hoarding situation though.
Dogs I wouldn't doubt would eat their young or their own species. They have already said that happened on an episode of Animal Cops when the officers had to deal with a case of a hoarder.
I have no intention on turning a page of Cat Fancy unless it would be to review the information you are claiming. Too bad you consider my information about a cat eating his young as unreliable, but unfortunately I do not have any other witnesses as to what I saw.
You dog lovers always seem to always have to have things your own way. You guys get dog parks, doggie bakeries and restaurants and even bigger areas for them when it comes to shopping at Petsmart. What more do you want? Maybe this might make you feel better. AHS adoptions of cats vs dogs is about dead even.
There are also more cats outside than dogs as well but that has a lot to do with people who either dumped their cats on the city streets to fend for themselves or because they think their cat will do just fine outside. Too bad some of them never get them spayed or neutered. We'd have a lot less stray and feral cats out there.
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One might be interested in Sarah Hartwell's article on male cats that kill kittens - http://www.messybeast.com/kill_kit.htm. It's probably not much of a step from killing to eating, and altho the stated purpose of killing kittens is not for food purposes, I could imagine conditions under which a male cat might engage in such consumption. This killing is a commonly known practice among male cats in large cat societies or colonies.
Hartwell is a well-known highly regarded British specialist in cat behavior and related cat fields. This kitten killing by domestic cat males is a trait domestic cats share with their distant much larger wild cat cousins.
I'm a cat "protector" myself, but believe it is important to be realistic about them. They do engage in practices that are abhorrent to some humans - "playing" with their prey before they kill it being one, as it is viewed as "torture". Ask bird people about that one.
Doesn't make them less appealing to me, and knowing that they are not little people adds to one's ability to work with them as part of helping them, especially the unsocialized or feral ones.
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Thanks for sharing but apparently the person who wrote it didn't document a feral colony that supposedly had these behaviors. Yes, fighting is a common problem in colonies where cats have not been spayed and neutered. I'm not saying that killing a rival doesn't happen, even wild dogs have done that. But the author of this observation didn't list her sources. She only said she observed this in the field and it was documented by breeders. I looked for links and other information on her web site on where the feral colony was after reading the piece but couldn't find any.
What would satisfy your requirements? VIDEO? Then what? Excuses that that filmed behavior was an abberation by a "bad cat" and not already understood as part of the male cat nature, or that the documenting source is "unreliable" ? It's been my experience that denial about something one does not want to admit to can be almost infinite. And this has nothing to do with fighting, it's about eliminating an obstacle.
This is a very commonly discussed practice among barn cats, feral cat colonies, among any kind of large cat society that is allowed to breed. It's another one of these instinctual things - to further one's own gene pool and/or to make a female available for breeding sooner than she would be were she raising that batch of kittens. It doesn't always happen, but it has happened frequently enough to be well-documented for a long time.
The purpose of the article was to discuss a known behavior, not to provide documentary proof of the practice. It's been observed and known far too long to have to be "proven" any more.
I'm surprised that a dedicated cat person doesn't already know of and acknowlege this.
I'll think about whether I want to go to the trouble of finding multiple documented cases in different colonies around the planet on the internet and then have to deal with more denial.
I'd like to see photos or at least a reliable news source. If someone were in denial I doubt they'd go looking for that stuff. If she observed the behavior then she would have listed a feral colony that she was tracking for example.
As I stated, I'm not saying that cats fighting in a colony won't happen. I'm saying that when you can show where it's been documented, which colony, etc, it becomes a bit more credible of a source. If a group that works with ferals observed the same behavior which supports her theory then all the better. When you post what she posted, then you have to expect someone out there will end up challenging the theory unless they themselves have witnessed the behavior. One thing she did seem to infer is how similar cats are to humans in some respect. Even humans in hostory have killed rivals and taken their kids. I think in Medieval times this was known to happen.
Fighting amongst cats that have not been neutered or spayed is quite common. That is something that can't be argued and one of the things rescue groups reflect on in encouraging people to spay and neuter their cats. One thing about this woman's theory that scratched the surface but is important to note that many mothe cats have been known to adopt a stray kitten. I remember one group Benji's Buddies, that had a member of the public bring them a 10 day old kitten that was found next to someone's back truck tire at Petsmart. I was there when it happened.
The little kitten we named Kayla was most likely the result of a feral cat litter. The reps for the rescue were prepared to bottle feed the baby and brought her home. They also had at the time a female cat they rescued that was nursing another her own litter of kittens. Long story short, the mammacat adopted Kayla and allowed her to nurse with her kittens as well. Unfortunately, because of upper respiratory infection Kayla died and the mother also got sick but apparently got treated just like Kayla did.
It was pretty sad to find out the news but proved that despite the fact that cats fight with each other, they also can be just as loving given the right situation. Thanks for sharing that piece with us though. That's what a message board is all about.
well i think it was sad but part of naturethey were africanized bees they kill no matter what they sting so i agree and disagree with u sry i know it's confusing
I'm responding as I read along the forum. CatProtector, I don't where you are getting your information, but what they do on a daily basis won't "blow your mind". It's a job, they do what they can as best as they can. Will you quit with the Cat Galaxy crap already, you are simply trying to promote your agenda by using these forums. And for the Mod....Cat Galaxy has nothing to do with the AHS and it's EAMT's. She's leading everyone that reads in here to believe that she or Cat Galaxy has some special knowledge on the EAMT's. I've been with the AHS for over a year and have no knowledge of what she's talking about. And yes, they have a ride-along program, but you must be a volunteer in other departments first. Another thing, the Vets do not "donate" their time, they are paid employees of the AHS. Perhaps your friend donates time, but unless stated as a volunteer, everyone you see on the show is an employee. Jettapony, you can be appalled all you want, I think everyone here knows that you are ignorant and know not of what you speak. Again, Cat Galaxy has no affiliation with the AHS and the EAMT's I hope everyone in here realizes this and disregards the information that Catprotector seems to think she has. Jettapony, I do feel that these shows are important. If people aren't made aware of the attrocities that befall animals due to humans, then how will anyone become angry enough to do something about it. Okay, with regards to the apology by jettapony, sorry to tell you all this, but the EAMT's don't care about your opinion or apology, they are too busy working 10 hour shifts and spending time with their families on their days off. We can all have an opinion, we feel what we feel and should never apologize for it. Again, there was a lesson here...not all stories end happily! If we do not allow others to see for themselves what is going on, then how can we expect them to take part in making the change for the better? Yes, Andy was promoted to Manager, and he's doing a fine job, but don't think for a moment that he's above office politics, because I have experienced it first hand. Okay, the AHS does NOT go to AZCats for help with feral cats because cats allowed to be free roaming in Arizona. They do not even deal with them unless they are injured or unless someone already has one in a trap, and even then, they are told to bring the cat into the shelter, the EAMT's do NOT go pick up feral cats. Where are you getting this information??? Geeez! Feral cats that come in are immediately euthanized, Field has nothing to do with feral cats. And yes, for a few months, AZCats was allowed use of the Spay/Neuter Clinic so they could neuter and spay cats, but only for a couple of months before management squashed that one. No-kill shelters should not even exist...How many people know how to evaluate a dog for aggression? Do you know what fear aggression is? Do you know at what age fear aggression turns to full on no fear aggression? There are so many dogs out there that NEED to be euthanized for the safety of the public and the families that care for them. So many people think that it's great to try to save them all, but it's not. The goal should be to try to save the ones that are submissive and safe. Any aggression is bad aggression, be it food, barrier, etc. You think a dog humping your leg means he wants to mate with you? No, it means that he's making it clear that he is the alpa, not you. Body posturing, pricked ears, full frontal stance, there are many signs of an aggressive dog, but people just don't know it and frankly, don't want to hear it. These are the dogs that end up biting or worse. It's a matter of saving the good animals not all of them, the good ones, the ones that will be safe for a family to have and safe for society. Well, two more pages left of posts and it looks like more of the same. Perhaps you should spent less time posting online and more time actually participating in the problems that have been discussed here. And I'm mainly referring to CatProtector.....
You sound like a wonderful person. I recently left AHS as a volunteer due to more political b.s. But I thought that you may want to know, that although Andy takes part in the politics that go on, I realize that he has a family to take care of and must do some things that he may not always like. He was always kind, genuine and professional. I know it can't be easy with kids and your husband always at work. I wish you and your family all the best. I'm so glad that he was chosen as Manager after Rachel was canned! I know he'll shine.
Actually dolphin this is a public forum and as long as it relates to the topic it can be discussed. If you properly read the topic at hand you would've come to see that Cat Galaxy did do a story on the EAMTs and was able to ride along with them. Yes, members of the media have ridden with them so you don't have to be an AHS member to do so. Talking about the experience or providing information is pretty relevent.
I never led anyone to believe I had special knowledge of the EAMTs. Just posted my experiences, the facts and let people draw their own conclusions.
As for the feral cat issue you claim to work for the AHS so I have to wonder who they call when it comes to the issue if not AzCATs? If it wasn't for AzCATs then the AHS would not have been convinced to start a TNR program. I have no clue where you get your information but as far as I know, the AHS did open up their clinics and volunteered their time to help AzCATs back in October when their group was trying to spay and neuter over 1,000 cats. AzCATs was able to spay/neuter 1,196 feral cats that month thanks to the AHS and other groups who helped. Yes, they even had private vets assist in this effort.
If you knew anything about the EAMTs then you would have read what was posted. You claim that the AHS nor the EAMTs go to AzCATs for help when dealing with feral cats (I'm not talking about ones that get injured). What are you basing this one on? From what I gathered and was told from the EAMTs I rode with, they carry cards with them which has AzCATs information on it. When a person calls about a cat and the feline turns out to be feral, the EAMT provides them with the information and encourages that person to contact AzCATs when dealing with the issue. It's this type of cooperation that can make the EAMT's jobs easier. As I stated in this topic at an earlier time, the EAMTs may come to the aid of injured feral cats (that have not been ear tipped or is a member of an established colony) but overall, the AHS is not equipped to deal with the feral cat issue. This is why they have a relationship with a group like AzCATs that focuses their efforts on this one issue.
You are correct that Cat Galaxy has nothing to do with the AHS but the station does work with them as it does with many of the rescue organizations. The AHS has also taken part in many of our shows that promoted spay/neuter, TNR and adoption. I guess you forget that the AHS deals with the media on a daily basis and without the help of the members of the fifth estate would face a lot more difficulties in getting their message out to the world. Here is another connection to the AHS in regards to the station. Cat Galaxy's station manager is an AHS alumnus.
I don't know why you feel you need to come on here to attack myself and others. Just because you went through the EAMT training and have been with the AHS for over a year doesn't make you an expert in the field of animal rescue. I may not have medical training but I been a member of the animal rescue community off and on for over 15 years and the last 10 of those have been involved with cat rescue.
To attack another person without knowing the whole situation only makes you look foolish and unprofessional, especially if you intend on dealing with the public. If you lose your cool like this in a group how will you be able to handle yourself in the field when dealing with them as an EAMT? BTW, I am also a he not a she. I think that was already established when I first joined this forum.
I'm not going to post anymore on this topic since I thought it would just die out but I guess some people just can't let things go or have to have a war in order to keep things interesting.
Mod Kelly if your watching, perhaps it's best to close and lock this topic. This way this topic can be buried 6 feet under. Enough said.
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