Wow, lots of good comments. I don't think I need to add anything more.

Cat, I do have two questions for you:

1. If AHS and MCAC&C were to become no-kil or limited admission, where would the 60,000 or so animals that they must euthanize each year go? And since you seem to have all the answers, I don't want one of your long winded posts that only shows your ignorance of the reality of the animal welfare industry. I want the names of the organiztions that can increase their intake to absorb an additional 60,000 animals a year. (And those are the 60,000 with the most problems, behavioral and medical).

2. You seem to have a very strong dislike for the AHS and their policies. Also, you seem to only criticize the show. Why do you watch, and why do you bother posting here?


SSC

Catprotector, thanks for letting me have my own opinion - I agree that AAWL is a great facility and the Humane SOciety does use them quite often ... No-kill works for them because they CAN turn animals away ...
I think it is wonderful that you live in your own little reality where we can find homes for the 100,000 unwanted animals that AHS and MCACC get each year alone ...
Humane Society does get donations from the public and they do get media attention -- they use as much of that to further education and to expand their resources but you HAVE to realize that there is a limit when it comes to getting over 200 cats in one single day!!!!
Bottle feeding is a WONDERFUL experience and in a perfect world we would love to find bottle feeders for all of them ... Please, if you know of all these shelters that have room for bottle babies, pass that info on to the Humane Society - (admissions and field operations) so they can give those numbers out to people who have found them ...

I love the discussions that has been started by all of this ... All I can suggest is everyone keep up the good work they are doing in the animal welfare field -- no matter how big or small --
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was mentioned by a couple of posters that the scene in which the behaviorists handled the dog that was eventually euthanized appeared "rushed" and that they didn't take much time to work with him and evaulate him properly.

Remember -- this is an edited television show. However long the behaviorist spent with the dog was condensed into a segement lasting under a minute. In reality she might have spent hours with the dog. Who knows?

Regarding an earlier query as to which "no-kill" organizations would be able to absorb the 100,000 animals the AHS and AC & C would be forced to turn away in the event of becoming "no-kill" themselves, I would very much like to see this list. Such a list should be provided to every animal welfare organization in the state, and the author given the Nobel Peace Prize.

quote:

Originally posted by tiamatsargon:
Good debate going on here.

My wish is that all animal welfare group supporters, employees, volunteers, etc. would do more to work together for the common cause. I was cornered at a company Christmas party (of all places) by a co-worker's wife who does volunteer work with a local TNR group. She felt it important to berate me in front of the entire office for being associated with a 'kill shelter' (her words). My response to her was that we were on the same team with a common cause.

I think all members of the animal welfare community can agree on the following:

1) We all wish that there was an end to euthanasia in this country;

2) We all wish that owners were responsible enough to spay and neuter, thus putting shelters out of business;

3) EVERY animal welfare organization needs monetary donations, not just the small ones and not just the large ones;

4) Working TOGETHER is the answer, thus focusing shared resources on what we want to accomplish - the end to euthanasia and animal overpopulation.

tiamatsargon, unfortunately there is always going to be some battle between no-kill groups and the ones that are open intake like the AHS. Some of it has to do with politics and the other has to do with the different rules each group has. One underlying problem is basic support when it comes to monetary donations. The AHS receives a lot of donations moneywise and they get a lot of support from the media. The balance is pretty much shifted their way.

When the AHS has an event, fundraiser or makes an announcement, it's widely mentioned on local TV news. They get a lot of press. When a no-kill has an event then they're lucky they even get a small blurb about it in the local newspaper. It's a shame since most of the no-kills despite their limited budgets put on some wonderful events which the local news stations seem to turn their noses up at.

For the last couple of years, groups like AzCATs for example have had their annual SOS campaign to save the feral cats and get them spayed/neutered, then re-released back to their environment. This is an important event because AzCATs is the only group in the Phoenix metro area that focuses mainly on dealing with the feral cats by performing TNR (trap, neuter, return). There goal this year is to spay and neuter 10,000 cats but it hasn't even been mentioned at all on other news stations. It's a real shame too because even though a lot of people complain about having feral cats roaming their communities the problem was originally caused by humans.

To take on spaying and neutering 10,000 street cats for a small group such as theirs is newsworthy as far as I'm concerned not to mention important.

And look at the AAWL. Back in December they announced that the light rail project was hurting adoptions because people couldn't find their shelter through all the road construction. Not one mention about this in the newspaper or even TV news. If this happened to the AHS, then it'd get lots of media attention and as a result would get an outpouring of support from the community.

I've always believed that when the groups are recognized for their efforts equally then you have a much better core working relationship. Unfortunately, this isn't happening which is a shame because if the no-kills had the same support that opportunities that the AHS has then every one of the groups would be prospering.

Yes, the AHS has a lot of good programs but then again so do the no-kill and smaller groups which perform their work on a much smaller budget.

I agree that all of the organizations should work together. In some ways they do. ARC (Animal Rescue Center) for example in Phoenix like some of the other no-kill groups in the Phoenix area actually visits AC&C (Animal Care & Control) to save animals that are on the euthanasia list. Because of this practice, many animals have gotten a second chance where they would otherwise be euthanized.

They like many of the smaller rescues believe that Maricopa County can become no-kill especially with proper education, dedication, and strong comittment. You have to want to become no-kill.

Whether you love them or hate them, the AHS has worked with smaller rescues a little bit more than they have recently. When AzCATs had the goal of spaying and neutering 1,000 cats last year, the AHS did open their clinics up to help in the effort. They also started to educate themselves about TNR and as a result are now subscribing to the TNR program. It took a long time for AzCATs to convince the AHS that TNR was the best and only way to handle the feral cat issue. Now when the EAMTs respond to a call and the person complains about feral cats roaming the neighborhood, the EAMTs hand them information and encourage that person to contact AzCATs. The AHS also has information about TNR and AzCATs available at their shelters as well.

Hopefully, this work with the smaller groups will continue with the AHS because they are in it for the same fight and that's to save as many animals as they can. If people would simply act responsibly and have them spayed or neutered, then animal rescue groups glady would welcome being put out of business.

Starr,

You have a right to your opinion but I'm going to explain this to you once again without the need of a flame war.

If AC&C and the AHS were to become no-kill and the already existing groups like AAWL, Sun Cities 4PAWS, Paw Placement also received the millions of dollars in donations every year that the AHS receives every year, then many of the animals on the euthanasia list would be saved and have a place to stay. Other than having to euthanize animals to end their pain and suffering to due to an illness, no-kill works. AAWL, 4PAWS, Paw Placement and many of the other groups that subscribe to the no-kill philosophy have proven that it works. Even ARC has stated that through education and comittment Maricopa County can be a no-kill community. This is the belief shared by many of them.

By the way you are posting, you seem very much against the small groups that are no-kill. You can say all you want that I have a strong dislike for the AHS but that would be untrue.

In many ways I've praised them but I do believe there is also room for improvement in their organization as well. I don't think I should be blasted by you simply because my position is different than yours. Yes, I'm a fan of the smaller rescues because I believe in what they are doing. They don't get a lot of recognition and they also don't get 1/4 the donations that the AHS gets. This is wrong. No group should be put above another because they are all on the same side when it comes to rescuing animals. If the wealth is spread evenly then everyone prospers.

You wonder why I watch the shows well the main reason two of my cats like Animal Planet while one of them totally hates it. I'm a sucker for a good cat story. I watch Pets On Parade too but that's because I like watching the cat parts. I usually fast forward through the other stuff.

As for my posting here, I do believe that like any public board, I do have the right to be here. I can voice my opinion, share knowledge and have a good conversation. As I said before, not everyone has to agree with each other but I think it's unfair to totally lable someone the bad guy simply because they don't agree with you.

Let me ask you this question Starr. If Animal Planet were to leave the AHS and decided to cover the no-kill and smaller groups would you still watch and support them? Or would you stop watching because your husband, the EAMTs and even the AHS couldn't be seen anymore on the show?

In my opinion I think a show calling themselves Animal Planet: Heroes Phoenix should be covering the other animal rescues as well. The smaller groups do just as much hard work in the community as the AHS does. It's time the media recognized this fact.

tiamatsargon,

Yes, it's an edited TV show but still even without the show, I've heard it can still be a rushed process. When I first learned that the AHS had an Alternative Placement Department I was indeed glad to hear about it. The main function from what I was able to gather was that it was set up to network with other rescues to get animals placed with them that might have either special needs or behavior issues.

The AHS has stated that another reason for it's creation is because some of the smaller groups (most if not all are no-kill) might have more time to spend working with the more difficult animals that the AHS is not equipped to handle.

I was disappointed though to hear that the AHS euthanizes bottle babies when they don't need to be put down. I'd say this is considered a special needs case. I do know of groups that have taken in bottle babies in the past and still do when they have the volunteers for them. Many of them are small ones.

Cat & kitten season certainly is the worst for any animal rescue agency. Last year, the AHS was taking in 850 cats per week. The other groups also saw record numbers as well for their respective organizations. If people would simply spay and neuter their cats a lot less of them would end up in shelters or out on the city streets.

As bad as it hits the AHS, it's a much tougher fight for groups like AzCATs who have to deal with the feral cat problem during this time. They are dealing not only with a shortage of donations but also volunteers to trap the cats as well.

BTW, in the no-kill shelter argument, AC&C at one time was considering going that route a few years ago. It could happen someday especially with more and more no-kill groups rescuing animals from their euthanasia list every year. AC&C has also opened a cats only shelter in west Phoenix which used to take in both. A very positive step for that organization.

Starr,

You have a right to your opinion but I'm going to explain this to you once again without the need of a flame war.

If AC&C and the AHS were to become no-kill and the already existing groups like AAWL, Sun Cities 4PAWS, Paw Placement also received the millions of dollars in donations every year that the AHS receives every year, then many of the animals on the euthanasia list would be saved and have a place to stay.

Other than having to euthanize animals to end their pain and suffering to due to an illness, no-kill works. AAWL, 4PAWS, Paw Placement and many of the other groups that subscribe to the no-kill philosophy have proven that it works. Even ARC has stated that through education and comittment Maricopa County can be a no-kill community. This is the belief shared by many of them.

By the way you are posting, you seem very much against the small groups that are no-kill. You can say all you want that I have a strong dislike for the AHS but that would be untrue.

In many ways I've praised them but I do believe there is also room for improvement in their organization as well. I don't think I should be labled the enemy by you, simply because my position is different than yours. Yes, I'm a fan of the smaller rescues because I believe in what they are doing. They don't get a lot of recognition and they also don't get 1/4 the donations that the AHS gets. This is wrong. No group should be put above another because they are all on the same side when it comes to rescuing animals. If the wealth is spread evenly then everyone prospers.

You wonder why I watch the shows well the main reason two of my cats like Animal Planet while one of them totally hates it. I'm always up for a good cat story. I watch Pets On Parade too but that's because I like watching the cat parts. I usually fast forward through the other stuff.

As for my posting here, I do believe that like any public board, I do have the right to be here. I can voice my opinion, share knowledge and have a good conversation. As I said before, not everyone has to agree with each other but I think it's unfair to totally lable someone the bad guy simply because they don't agree with you.

Let me ask you this question Starr. If Animal Planet were to leave the AHS and decided to cover the no-kill and smaller groups would you still watch the show and support their groups? Or would you stop watching because your husband, the EAMTs and even the AHS couldn't be seen anymore on the show?

In my opinion I think a show calling themselves Animal Planet: Heroes Phoenix should be covering the other animal rescues as well. The smaller groups do just as much hard work in the community as the AHS does. It's time the media recognized this fact.

tiamatsargon,

Yes, it's an edited TV show but still even without the show, I've heard it can still be a rushed process. When I first learned that the AHS had an Alternative Placement Department I was indeed glad to hear about it. The main function from what I was able to gather was that it was set up to network with other rescues to get animals placed with them that might have either special needs or behavior issues.

The AHS has stated that another reason for it's creation is because some of the smaller groups (most if not all are no-kill) might have more time to spend working with the more difficult animals that the AHS is not equipped to handle.

I was disappointed though to hear that the AHS euthanizes bottle babies when they don't need to be put down. I'd say this is considered a special needs case. I do know of groups that have taken in bottle babies in the past and still do when they have the volunteers for them. Many of them are small ones.

Cat & kitten season certainly is the worst for any animal rescue agency. Last year, the AHS was taking in 850 cats per week. The other groups also saw record numbers as well for their respective organizations. If people would simply spay and neuter their cats a lot less of them would end up in shelters or out on the city streets.

As bad as it hits the AHS, it's a much tougher fight for groups like AzCATs who have to deal with the feral cat problem during this time. They are dealing not only with a shortage of donations but also volunteers to trap the cats as well.

BTW, in the no-kill shelter argument, AC&C at one time was considering going that route a few years ago. It could happen someday especially with more and more no-kill groups rescuing animals from their euthanasia list every year. AC&C has also opened a cats only shelter in west Phoenix which used to take in both. A very positive step for that organization.

Ok catprotector ... open your door because we are sending all the animals your way

quote:

They like many of the smaller rescues believe that Maricopa County can become no-kill especially with proper education, dedication, and strong comittment. You have to want to become no-kill.

Then I guess I don't understand why Maricopa County is a part of the Alliance for Companion Animals?

Have you thought about undertaking the production of your own Heroes type show and putting it on your website? Or perhaps posting it on a site like YouTube? You never know who might see it and these days, anyone can make a video and get lots of attention for it.

I've done some investigating and I believe I know why you are so bitter towards AHS and its unfortunate but that's the way things work sometimes.

Its great that you want to plug the smaller groups but it seems that you are pitting smaller groups against larger groups and that is a very big problem in the animal welfare community. The overpopulation problem is every group's problem and if all groups continue to operate in a vacuum, its never going to be solved.

I am a long time volunteer with 2 of the groups that you frequently mention and I have seen the highs and the lows. I too get frustrated by the policies of individual organizations but I think most groups here in Maricopa County have realized they can't do it alone and I applaud their efforts for coming together to make Maricopa County No-Kill in the regards to the killing of healthy and treatable animals by the year 2012. And its "healthy and treatable" because there will ALWAYS be animals that no matter how much money, time or resources you have, they cannot be saved.

If you have not familiarized yourself with the Asilomar Accords, you might want to read up on them as they are the guiding principles of many shelters across the country...not just here in Maricopa County.

Also, like ARC that you referenced, AHS takes animals off the euthanasia list of AC&C and other shelters ACROSS the state through programs like Project New Hope. They also recently made a $200,000 donation to shelters across the Gulf Coast region that were devastated by Hurricane Katrina. I imagine you will say that money should have stayed here in the community but even the smallest of the small rescue groups here have a lot more than those in that region of the country.

You know Cat, I was this close to just letting this one go because you are catching hell from pretty much everyone in here! But you made some assumptions about me personally, and I do feel the need to defend myself! I have three dogs and four cats, I love them all equally, but they most certainly do not tell me what I am going to do or what to watch or any of the restrictions that your cats put on you!
The fact that you think the only reason I watch Animal Planet is because my husbnd happens to be on for maybe 30 minutes each show is just ridiculous! Do you think that we tevo everything else and just watch him over and over again! We see him everyday!! The real problem is that you choose not to listen to anyone that has a different opinion than you! Why does it have to be your way or no way at all?
Everyone else, including me, is saying that everyone is working toward the same goal, and that right now, both types of organizations are NECESSARY. Not that one is better than the other, or that small rescues are bad, or any of the other negatives you either say or imply. There are so many great comments on here and it is as if to you they dont exist! Have you read them? Any Of Them? There are even compliments sent your way but you have just looked them over as well! Why is that? You know my husband, he is not a media hog. It's not as if he begged Animal Planet to put him on TV ~ they choose what stories will air and if he happens to be a part of that episode then he just is! I have no idea what they are going to show until the rest of the world does!
I just felt the need to clarify things for those who are reading and commenting.


SSC

quote:

Originally posted by lorla:
Ok catprotector ... open your door because we are sending all the animals your way

Just make sure they're all cats. I'm not a fan of dogs.

quote:

Originally posted by blueshirt35:

Then I guess I don't understand why Maricopa County is a part of the Alliance for Companion Animals?

Have you thought about undertaking the production of your own Heroes type show and putting it on your website? Or perhaps posting it on a site like YouTube? You never know who might see it and these days, anyone can make a video and get lots of attention for it.

I've done some investigating and I believe I know why you are so bitter towards AHS and its unfortunate but that's the way things work sometimes.

Its great that you want to plug the smaller groups but it seems that you are pitting smaller groups against larger groups and that is a very big problem in the animal welfare community. The overpopulation problem is every group's problem and if all groups continue to operate in a vacuum, its never going to be solved.

I am a long time volunteer with 2 of the groups that you frequently mention and I have seen the highs and the lows. I too get frustrated by the policies of individual organizations but I think most groups here in Maricopa County have realized they can't do it alone and I applaud their efforts for coming together to make Maricopa County No-Kill in the regards to the killing of healthy and treatable animals by the year 2012. And its "healthy and treatable" because there will ALWAYS be animals that no matter how much money, time or resources you have, they cannot be saved.

If you have not familiarized yourself with the Asilomar Accords, you might want to read up on them as they are the guiding principles of many shelters across the country...not just here in Maricopa County.

Also, like ARC that you referenced, AHS takes animals off the euthanasia list of AC&C and other shelters ACROSS the state through programs like Project New Hope. They also recently made a $200,000 donation to shelters across the Gulf Coast region that were devastated by Hurricane Katrina. I imagine you will say that money should have stayed here in the community but even the smallest of the small rescue groups here have a lot more than those in that region of the country.

Why ask why when it's come to AC&C. They've already lost one of the best people they had working for them last year Julie Bank. She went on to become head of the North County Humane Society and SPCA in Oceanside. Her leaving was a big loss to the animal rescue community here in Arizona.

As for the larger group vs smaller group battle that has gone on for years. There are some groups that aren't great fans of the AHS simply because they feel the media has given them a large part of the spotlight when the smaller groups are the ones in great need of help. The AHS gets a lot of help. They receive millions in donations, get weekly segments on TV promoting their animals for adoptions, their own adoption show, and a PetTelethon broadcast every year on local TV. Now, they get a show on Animal Planet. You can't but help feel bad for the no-kills which get very little support by the media.

You also can't blame them for being angry about it as well. The no-kill groups are consistantly being excluded when there work is just as important. If not more so now with cat and kitten season now here.

I've taken a glancing at the Asilomar Accords but I doubt every animal rescue group is going to follow it. Many have their own rules which guide them. The key word word used is "shelter" not rescue organizations. If something like the Accords were to truely succeed in Maricopa County then you need a large coalition here in Arizona. The Accords do suggest the following:

"We encourage the creation of local "community coalitions" consisting of a variety of organizations (e.g., governmental animal control agencies, nonprofit shelters, grassroots foster care providers, feral cat groups, funders and veterinary associations) for the purpose of saving the lives of healthy and treatable animals."

This is a great portion but how will this be accomplished without one group feeling like they won't be sidelined by a larger group's needs? With the media already giving a lot of promotion and coverage to the AHS for example, the smaller groups almost seem non-existant in the general public's eyes.

Another part of the Accords says the following:

"We acknowledge that the euthanasia of healthy and treatable animals is the sad responsibility of some animal welfare organizations that neither desired nor sought this task. We believe that the euthanasia of healthy and treatable animals is a community-wide problem requiring community-based solutions."

Sorry to say but the AHS for example is still euthanizing bottle babies. AC&C is also euthanizing animals as well. It's common knowledge amongst the smaller groups that AC&C still has a high euthanasia rate. If they didn't euthanize animals due to space, then there wouldn't be a need for groups like ARC to be going to down there every week to rescue cats from the euthanasia list. The conditions at County are pretty bad, and it breaks my heart to see many cats end up there.

The AHS has a very nice clean facility at South Mountain and I think it's something County should be following in some ways. The AHS really learned in some ways from the no-kills when that facility was first built. The facility is inviting and pretty large. I've had the chance to be given the tour and saw the cats are really well cared for there.

The cat section has TV's that play videos for them (although I think they should spring for satellite TV or cable for the cats to watch). They also should have radio stations like Cat Galaxy playing for them as well.

As for the undertaking of a show dedicated to the smaller groups, when our radio station first was starting out we did do a survivor type show called Catnip which featured cats that were up for adoption. It was a bit short lived because the cats that were featured in the show got adopted during production which was good news.

Any decision for shows are pretty much decided on by management. The Cats On The Mean Streets series got to be pretty popular and right now we're doing another one with the Scottsdale Fire Department called Engine Co. Scottsdale which is still in production. That keeps us pretty busy right now. If any of you want we'll let you know what our station for cats comes up with next. The best thing is to check the web site for upcoming stuff.

As for donating outside our community, we too were involved in giving to the cause when Katrina hit. We produced and developed PSA's for airplay to encourage donations to Alleycat Allies and the ASPCA to help cats affected by Hurricane Katrina as well as donated money. The PSA's by the way played on AM and FM stations in California. The PSA's also got airplay on internet stations in Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Missouri. We had them available for download as well so they got airplay in other places as well. We donated our own time to produce them.

So, which groups do you volunteer for? You said a couple of them I mentioned so it's nice to know which ones as I applaud your efforts of volunteering for smaller groups.

Catprotector, I think you are the only one in the smaller organizations that has such a problem with the Humane Society ...
You will never be able to comprehend the issue at hand. Instead of helping to solve the problems you see, you simply put down the AHS. Sorry that you don't like them.
Just spend your time and focus on the smaller organizations and help them get the media attention they do deserve ... Obviously, they need a louder voice - do you think you may be the one?
Continue to help increase awareness of these great smaller groups (I don't think anyone has anything negative to say about their efforts) but don't continue to harp on the AHS and their policies because you obviously cannot get the big picture in your head.

quote:

Originally posted by starrsoapandcandle:
You know Cat, I was this close to just letting this one go because you are catching hell from pretty much everyone in here! But you made some assumptions about me personally, and I do feel the need to defend myself! I have three dogs and four cats, I love them all equally, but they most certainly do not tell me what I am going to do or what to watch or any of the restrictions that your cats put on you!
The fact that you think the only reason I watch Animal Planet is because my husbnd happens to be on for maybe 30 minutes each show is just ridiculous! Do you think that we tevo everything else and just watch him over and over again! We see him everyday!! The real problem is that you choose not to listen to anyone that has a different opinion than you! Why does it have to be your way or no way at all?
Everyone else, including me, is saying that everyone is working toward the same goal, and that right now, both types of organizations are NECESSARY. Not that one is better than the other, or that small rescues are bad, or any of the other negatives you either say or imply. There are so many great comments on here and it is as if to you they dont exist! Have you read them? Any Of Them? There are even compliments sent your way but you have just looked them over as well! Why is that? You know my husband, he is not a media hog. It's not as if he begged Animal Planet to put him on TV ~ they choose what stories will air and if he happens to be a part of that episode then he just is! I have no idea what they are going to show until the rest of the world does!
I just felt the need to clarify things for those who are reading and commenting.


SSC

Don't make me the bad guy in this whole discussion Starr. I think I've been pretty reserved in your attacks on me and listened to everyone's viewpoint. I just wonder why you feel that attacking me over my defense of the no-kill and smaller rescues is going to help your position?

I haven't a clue why you think I made assumptions. I just asked a couple of questions which you seem reluctant to answer so I ask them again.

If Animal Planet were to leave the AHS and move to a no-kill or smaller group to do the series would you still watch the show? Or, would you stop watching it because your husband, the EAMTs and the AHS were no longer being seen on the show?

I've met your husband and he seems like a really nice guy but I have no clue whether he enjoys the spotlight or not. I don't really know that well. I know the EAMTs never asked for the show but according to the AHS website on the subject, the organization wanted it. They pitched the idea to Animal Planet.

The problem here is the AHS already has enough media attention that everyone knows who they are. They have an adoption show weekly on Channel 3, weekly segments of animals for adoption on the other news stations, and weekly mentions of animals for adoptions in the newspaper.

I can't help but feel that the other groups are being cast aside here with a show like this focusing mainly on the AHS. By excluding the no-kills and smaller rescues you kind of in a way say their efforts to save animals isn't as valuable as to what the AHS is doing. I think Animal Planet should rethink their position on this show and give the other groups in Phoenix a chance. The show is called Animal Planet: Heroes Phoenix right? In my opinion the no-kills are heroes in this community and their work should be reflected upon.

Now that I've gotten that out of the way once again, I'd like to address the animals watching their favorite shows. What's wrong with my cats being given free reign on what they wish to watch? I see cats as royals and as a true cat lover, I respect their position and status. In the household here, cats rule and that is the bottom line. True cat people understand this.

Cat,
The tone of some of your posts would suggest that the AHS euthanizes animals simply because they want to or don't want to make the effort to place animals that they cannot adopt out for one reason or another. That could not be further from the truth. I have something I would like you to read. I have said it before, so to you it may be repetitious, but there are others who read these posts who may not be so familiar with the AHS.
PLEASE READ.
I strongly agree with alot of you but I'm almost sure most of you don't know this!!
I have to say that I have never in my life seen a person who loved their job as much as Andy does! Just to give you an example: when they were told they were going to help right after Hurricane Katrina hit my heart sank. I had CNN on that whole weekend before they all left. Knowing what he was walking into all he could say was they need us and we can help them right on the spot. Night after night they all slept on top of the ambulances, and when he finally came home something was wrong with him. I could just see it in his eyes. They regrouped and off he went for the second time. He later told me that they left things unfinished (in his mind); there was still so much to be done and he felt like he abandoned them! Getting the chance to go back gave him some closure. Andy has since been promoted to Field Operations Manager and they are all always thinking of new and better ways to do their already hard job even better!! We are so proud of them all, their job is very hard but they all do it with such ease. You can't help but think God works in mysterious ways. And talking with Andy day after day, story after story, they all do the best they can and that is more then most of us can say! They Are True Animal Rescue Heroes!!

This is the way that everyone at the AHS approaches their job. They are elated when they save an animal, devastated if it has to be put down. I'm not just talking about the EAMTs, but everyone, from every department, right up to the president. They do their best,and are willing to take the bad with the good.
As you stated in your last post, the Asilomar Accords state that becoming a no-kill community takes a committment by the community. (It doesn't say that to become a no-kill community all of the shelters should just become no-kill and the problem is solved.)
If you don't think that becoming no-kill is the goal of everyone truly involved in animal welfare, than you aren't as involved as you claim to be.

SSC

quote:

Originally posted by catprotector:

If Animal Planet were to leave the AHS and move to a no-kill or smaller group to do the series would you still watch the show? Or, would you stop watching it because your husband, the EAMTs and the AHS were no longer being seen on the show?

Well, I answered this before, but I will answer it again for you. I don't know. If it was interesting, than yes. If not, no. It would be no different than any other show on TV, if I want to watch, I'll watch.
You're not saying there is something wrong with me watching my husband or my kids watching their dad and his coworkers on TV are you? We watch APH Phoenix because it is about Andy's work and we find it interesting. It is the only show on TV about the EAMTs, and we watch plenty of other shows.

As far as making you the "bad guy", I am not trying to do that. What I, and others have tried to get across, is that you are wrong. You look at animal welfare from the position of no-kill and smaller organizations. I, and others, look at the big picture, not just the organization that I am closest to. Until you look at the big picture, you will never unterstand the true magnitude of the problem. Judging by your posts, you don't have a clue.

SSC

quote:

Originally posted by lorla:
Catprotector, I think you are the only one in the smaller organizations that has such a problem with the Humane Society ...
You will never be able to comprehend the issue at hand. Instead of helping to solve the problems you see, you simply put down the AHS. Sorry that you don't like them.
Just spend your time and focus on the smaller organizations and help them get the media attention they do deserve ... Obviously, they need a louder voice - do you think you may be the one?
Continue to help increase awareness of these great smaller groups (I don't think anyone has anything negative to say about their efforts) but don't continue to harp on the AHS and their policies because you obviously cannot get the big picture in your head.

I still don't know how some people can still continue to twist this thing into saying I hate the AHS or that I'm attacking them. I very much comprehend the issue at hand I just wish people would actually listen to what I'm saying instead of only picking out what they want to hear. I state once again that I don't hate the AHS. For pete's sake I adopted one of my cats from them and she's a special part of my life.

Apparently, you have no clue about how rescue works here in Phoenix. There are some groups who will work with the AHS and some who won't or in the very least are reluctant to for various reasons. I've talked to and networked with many of them and can see their points but I can also see some of the points from the AHS end.

All of them are in for the same reason, to save the animals. However, they do go about it different ways and their can be a rivalry that happens. The battle between the large groups and small ones will always happen.

You can single me out all you want and make me the bad guy in this debate but what exactly does that really accomplish?

As for the big picture, saving the animals is the most important thing but it's counterproductive if one organization in this world is put above the others. All of them are supposed to be equal in this effort to save the animals.

The problem is the media is putting it in people's minds that the AHS is the only organization that rescues animals. Thus when people think about animal rescue, they think either AHS or AC&C. They don't think about 4PAWS, AAWL, AzCATs, Paw Placement, or any of the other number of smaller rescues out there.

The truth is because of this one way thinking by the media the AHS gets millions in donations and quite a lot of it monetarily. When they have an event or function, the media is all over it. When a no-kill or smaller group has one, the media is nowhere to be seen and if the media does take an interest they only mention it briefly.

I wish all of you would stop taking what I'm saying and turn this into a "he hates the AHS" type of thing. I don't hate them. Sure there are some things I think they can improve upon but that is what being human is all about. No group is perfect. All of them have their differences. I've had a chance to work with many of them and also learn about each group's programs.

The AHS has some good programs and I believe I stated that a couple of times but as soon as I mention the drawbacks of some their decisions, I get attacked because I'm not praising them in every post. I know many of you are fans of the AHS but I think it's unfair to blast someone on this board because they stick up for the no-kill and smaller rescues and believe they should have a voice.

I also think it's unfair to jump all over someone simply because they don't share your viewpoint. I realize that my being a fan of the no-kills on this board isn't going to make me Mr. Popularity but at least I have the guts to stand up for what I believe in and give them a voice. They certainly deserve it.