Mythbusters

 
    Forums    MythBusters    Submit a Myth: Historical "Fact"    The Tiny Constable
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
The Tiny Constable
 Login/Join 
Junior Member
Registered: 01-24-12
Posted   Reply With QuoteReport This Post  
This one comes from the Supreme Court of the United States.

In United States v. Jones, which came down yesterday, Justice Alito wrote a concurring opinion to criticize the majority for using "18th-century tort law" to decide whether "a 21st-century surveillance technique" (attaching a GPS tracking device to the underbody of a suspect's vehicle) is a "search" for Fourth Amendment purposes.

"[I]t is impossible to think of late 18th-century situations that are analogous to what took place in this case," Alito objected. "Is it possible to imagine a case in which a constable secreted himself somewhere in a coach and remained there for a period of time in order to monitor the movements of the coach's owner?"

Justice Scalia, writing for the majority, responds in footnote 3:

"Justice Alito's concurrence doubts the wisdom of our approach . . . . But in fact it posits a situation that is not far afield—a constable's concealing himself in the target's coach in order to track its movements. There is no doubt that the information gained by that trespassory activity would be the product of an unlawful search—whether that information consisted of the conversations occurring in the coach, or of the destinations to which the coach traveled."

But Justice Alito is ready with his own footnote 3:

"The Court suggests that something like this might have occurred in 1791 [when the Fourth Amendment was ratified], but this would have required either a gigantic coach, a very tiny constable, or both—not to mention a constable with incredible fortitude and patience."

So:

Is it true, as Justice Alito suggests, that a normal-sized constable in 1791 could not possibly have secreted himself in a coach of that era, undetected by owner and occupants, for "a period of time" sufficient to monitor the movements of the coach?
Senior Member
Registered: 02-15-10
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
Go look at a coach of "that era" and at a person of normal size and then decide if that person could hide anywhere on that coach and not be seen.
Senior Member
Registered: 02-08-06
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
Depends on the design of coach, I`ve seen some, in the local Museum, that have large boxes for luggage.

I can`t find a picture right now, but the collection is one of the largest in the UK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mossman_Collection

You might not be comfortble inside such a box but just as a man could get in the Boot (Trunk) of a car, a person could get in such a box.
Senior Member
Registered: 02-15-10
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
Undiscovered?
Senior Member
Registered: 02-08-06
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
If you were driving about town without using the luggage trunk that day possibly, maybe not every rime, but in the right circumstances it could be done.

There have been cases of Illegal Immigrants found at the port of Dover, in the boots if cars, hanging on tothe underside of lorries and coaches.

If a person can physically get into a space they can ride in it,
Senior Member
Registered: 04-29-11
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
Hmm...surely the legal point is that the GPS system is attached to the underbody of the car - which I believe still comes under the definition of 'in plain sight' - and not inside it? Therefore the car has not been opened, and therefore would not be deemed a 'search'?

Could a constable have secreted himself on the outside of a coach in the same way the GPS system was attached to the outside of the car..?
Senior Member
Registered: 11-21-07
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
Out of curiosity, what did the Supreme Court say about the 'olde fashioned way"? This would be following the suspect in an unmarked police car.
Senior Member
Registered: 02-15-10
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
A horse pulling an additional person exerts more effort and that effort is noticeable to anyone paying attention.

In "the old days", a court order was required to attach any kind of tracking device to a car. Why should the ease of GPS usage change that requirement?

Plus almost everyone has a cell phone these days that can easily be tracked when turned on. There's also a possibility of remote activation even when turned off if the battery is left in. Besides which, IIRC, there's a clause in the cell contract where the user agrees to allow tracking of the phone if determined necessary by LE or the provider. Plus every (currently produced) cell phone automatically transmits GPS location on a 911 call and that feature cannot be turned off without a lot of effort so location info could almost as easily be gained as if an actual GPS tracker was used.

Oh, and there are pay services that allow a private individual to find the location of a known cell number if the GPS feature is activated.
Senior Member
Registered: 02-08-06
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
What if it was a two or four Horse carriage?

A small person would weigh less than a hefty bloke like me, and the weight spread amongst more pulling power.
  Powered by Social Strata  
 

    Forums    MythBusters    Submit a Myth: Historical "Fact"    The Tiny Constable

 
advertisement
 

our sites

video

 

mobile

shop

stay connected

corporate