How is it possible to build a horse of a size so big it could carry an army?

That happened in the greek myth of the Trojan War!

I thought it only had to be big enough to carry a few assassins. And that they intended to sneak around when the enemy was asleep and then kill them while they were asleep.

I didn't think it had to be large enough to hold an 'Army'.

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I think the idea was to get a few men in to open the gate , if it happened, which has not been conclusively proven.

quote:

Originally posted by Dasman:
How is it possible to build a horse of a size so big it could carry an army?

That happened in the greek myth of the Trojan War!

Well, no. The actual myth was that it carried a few trusted soldiers, including the guy who came up with the idea (just in case the locals thought a burnt offering might be in order), who would then kill the guards at the gate and open them for the rest of the army.
Those ancient Greek heroes didn't really go in much for assassination in those stories. Killing somebody didn't really count unless you did it in an incredibly noisy manner, shouting threats, naming your lineage and titles, bragging about past exploits, and then a lot of clanging of weapons against shields, flashing of spear heads and sword blades, gleaming bronze armour blinding the populace, that sort of thing. Slicing someone's throat in the middle of the night, well- okay if he was a lowly guard but if you were dealing with another major hero that wouldn't even merit you a single line from the Achaean bards.
I mean, can you see it in Homer? "There slept the towering Trojan Biceppus, his armour resting against the wall of his room, snoring great snorts which roiled the very air above his mighty chest, now unprotected by the polished plates of burnished bronze, which now shine only with the languid light of a lowly lamp. Into the room crept Pectorus, swathed in swarthy black, with silent sandals swaddled with linen of Luxor, and taking from his sheath his sharp and sturdy short sword, of best Bythinian blade-craft, and slew the sleeping swordsman."
Nope, just doesn't have the same appeal.

"Alright, the Frenchmen have taken the wooden rabbit inside the gates. Now what?"

quote:

"There slept the towering Trojan Biceppus, his armour resting against the wall of his room, snoring great snorts which roiled the very air above his mighty chest, now unprotected by the polished plates of burnished bronze, which now shine only with the languid light of a lowly lamp. Into the room crept Pectorus, swathed in swarthy black, with silent sandals swaddled with linen of Luxor, and taking from his sheath his sharp and sturdy short sword, of best Bythinian blade-craft, and slew the sleeping swordsman."

Wow. I mean, just, well, WOW!

How can I get a copy of the back story on Biceppus, Pectorus and the Ancient Athenian Alliteration Altercation? I smell a NYT Best Seller!

Athenian Aliteration Altercation? Do I smell the blood of an English major about?

quote:

Originally posted by bikewer:
Athenian Aliteration Altercation? Do I smell the blood of an English major about?

No college, just a heavy reader. Alliteration was a device used by bards who memorised stories from the Greeks right down to the Vikings, probably to help them memorise the work. Also, they used specific adjectives in connection with certain people and places, probably to "fill in" time. For instance, "Cunning Odyseus set sail upon the wine-dark sea" uses up a lot more time than just saying "Odyseus set sail".

I know this might be a strange thing to mention in a science related forum, but many historians agree that the horse is actually a symbol that represents Poseidon, who also happened to be resbonsible for earthquakes. There are signs that suggested a major earthquake around the time of the supposedly real Trojan War.

quote:

"Alright, the Frenchmen have taken the wooden rabbit inside the gates. Now what?"

nice one

Uncyclopedia, this is the Historical Fact Forum, not science, its the right forum for that post.(Not that Science is wrong here either).
It`s actually debatable that an Earthquake topple the walls of Troy, there is Seismic activity in the part of Turkey that Troy is found in. The is evidence that Troy VI was in part destroyed by Earthquake, but there is disagrement about which of the phases of Troy is the one that represents the one that was in the Iliad. Claims have been made for TroyII by Schliemann for example.

quote:

Originally posted by theSpecialist1:
I thought it only had to be big enough to carry a few assassins. And that they intended to sneak around when the enemy was asleep and then kill them while they were asleep.

I didn't think it had to be large enough to hold an 'Army'.

quote:

Originally posted by blacksmithal:
Those ancient Greek heroes didn't really go in much for assassination in those stories. Killing somebody didn't really count unless you did it in an incredibly noisy manner, shouting threats, naming your lineage and titles, bragging about past exploits, and then a lot of clanging of weapons against shields, flashing of spear heads and sword blades, gleaming bronze armour blinding the populace, that sort of thing. Slicing someone's throat in the middle of the night, well- okay if he was a lowly guard but if you were dealing with another major hero that wouldn't even merit you a single line from the Achaean bards.
I mean, can you see it in Homer? "There slept the towering Trojan Biceppus, his armour resting against the wall of his room, snoring great snorts which roiled the very air above his mighty chest, now unprotected by the polished plates of burnished bronze, which now shine only with the languid light of a lowly lamp. Into the room crept Pectorus, swathed in swarthy black, with silent sandals swaddled with linen of Luxor, and taking from his sheath his sharp and sturdy short sword, of best Bythinian blade-craft, and slew the sleeping swordsman."
Nope, just doesn't have the same appeal.

Well, I have to say you are very good. And by zeroing on the word 'assassin' that I chose to use, you've managed to completely nullify the point that it wasn't an entire army that was supposed to fit inside the horse that I was trying to make AND managed to make me out to be a complete boob in the process. LOL! Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by theSpecialist1:

I thought it only had to be big enough to carry a few assassins. And that they intended to sneak around when the enemy was asleep and then kill them while they were asleep.

I didn't think it had to be large enough to hold an 'Army'.

quote:

Originally posted by blacksmithal:

Those ancient Greek heroes didn't really go in much for assassination in those stories. Killing somebody didn't really count unless you did it in an incredibly noisy manner, shouting threats, naming your lineage and titles, bragging about past exploits, and then a lot of clanging of weapons against shields, flashing of spear heads and sword blades, gleaming bronze armour blinding the populace, that sort of thing. Slicing someone's throat in the middle of the night, well- okay if he was a lowly guard but if you were dealing with another major hero that wouldn't even merit you a single line from the Achaean bards.
I mean, can you see it in Homer? "There slept the towering Trojan Biceppus, his armour resting against the wall of his room, snoring great snorts which roiled the very air above his mighty chest, now unprotected by the polished plates of burnished bronze, which now shine only with the languid light of a lowly lamp. Into the room crept Pectorus, swathed in swarthy black, with silent sandals swaddled with linen of Luxor, and taking from his sheath his sharp and sturdy short sword, of best Bythinian blade-craft, and slew the sleeping swordsman."
Nope, just doesn't have the same appeal.

Well, by zeroing in on the word 'assassin' that I chose to use, and demonstrating how completely wrong that was with an entire passage devoted to the invalidity of the concept, you've managed to both make me look foolish - thanks, lol, and detract any point I was trying to make about the horse not carrying an entire army -- thanks again -- lolX2.

I'll admit that the concept of them being assassins was incorrect. Yet, they did have to knock out the guards first before letting in the rest of the troops. That is where I apparently went with the assassin description. Sorry.

The questions on the Trojan Horse I'm challenging are, can a wooden horse be built to hold more than 1 person, could anyone outside of it detect the people in it when it was found, and could the people in it remain undetected and alive for a duration long enough for the horse to be discovered [overnight]. Wood isn't light, I suspect anything big enough to hold at least 2 people that looked like a horse would be huge and would require more than 2 people to roll into the gates, all the while there is a potential for shifting weight within it (the people). There would have to be some way for the people within to breath, some way for them to get out, and all while remaining undetected for what appears to be for some lengthly duration. Can it be done?

If you can build a ship from wood a 'horse' large enough for a couple of people to fit inside is easy.

If it was built using the same techniques as ships it would have a clinker construction - basically overlapping planks with an internal frame to help keep its shape. (Think row-boat with a top). Such construction would not be air tight, unless caulking was hammered into the gaps between the planks, but would hide the fact that someone was inside.

That the 'horse' was hollow wouldn't be unexpected. The extra weight might not be noticed, or (depending on how many people were inside) might be put down to extra framing or thick planking.

Getting out probably wouldn't be hard, or require an obvious 'door' on the horse. All you'd have to do is fix a section of the planking to that it could be disconnected from the inside and pushed outwards.

About three years agon, every Saturday morning, the Discovery Channel had a show about ancient weapon systems. They built and tested chariots, penthouses, etc. They also built a wooden horse large enough to carry six men and mobile enough to draw into a city gate. This was done in the Turkish City of Izmir and the locals really got into the spirot of the thing. The locals drawing the horse into the gate while the 'soldiers' (college students) practiced silence discipline.

I would like to point out, when this was posted there were no less than 5 Trojan horse posts on page one .

So I look like an evil crumb here.

In this evil crumbs opinion , If I had seen a big wooden horse parked at the gate , it would have been bonfire night , all the way .

If we were to build a giant wooden badger...

quote:

In this evil crumbs opinion , If I had seen a big wooden horse parked at the gate , it would have been bonfire night , all the way .

The thing is the Greeks knew that the Trojans held in high regard Poseidon, God of the Sea,Earthquakes and Horses, so chose a Horse as the Trojans would take it as an offering to him at the end of the War.

It`s also said to be one of the reasons why Poseidon tormented Odysseus so much in the Odyssey, revenge for this insult.