MythBusters
Go  |
New |
Find |
Notify |
|
Reply |
|
Admin |
New PM! |
Junior Member
Registered: 10-31-09
|
Considering newer cars are more airtight and contain more insulation and sound deadening material, do louder exhausts on motorcycles contribute to motorcycle rider safety?
|
Senior Member
Registered: 03-14-04
|
Posted over and over and over again.
And again, no. Loud pipes merely announce to the world that the rider is someone who wants people to look at him while they are walking on the street.
People in cars do not hear loud pipes, they do not see motorcycles even when they look right at them, they are not aware of their surroundings. If a person in a car can fail to hear a siren on a police car or fire truck, there is no way some "look at me, I'm cool on a bike" guy is going to get through all that with some loud exhaust pipes.
|
Junior Member
Registered: 10-31-09
|
Sooo... following that logic out your arguing that having sirens on emergency vehicles is pointless? Now thats something worth testing!
Do loud noises make people pay attention or not, whichever way it pans out, either bikers arguements that loud pipes save lives will be validated or it will be proven that all along the government has been irritating people with loud sirens which in truth serve no useful effect.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 11-12-04
|
Using the FIND feature helps prevent newbies from reposting the same tired old subjects.
|
Junior Member
Registered: 09-19-08
|
Loud pipes DO save lives and money. Animals (especially deer) run AWAY from the loud noise and are less likely to run into the path of a bike or vehicle with loud pipes.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 11-16-05
|
quote: Animals (especially deer) run AWAY from the loud noise and are less likely to run into the path of a bike or vehicle with loud pipes.
Any links to back that up? |
Senior Member
Registered: 02-03-08
|
quote: Originally posted by rick4070: quote: Animals (especially deer) run AWAY from the loud noise and are less likely to run into the path of a bike or vehicle with loud pipes.
Any links to back that up?
I've got a citation to deny it. my uncle has moderately loud pipes - not illegally loud, but louder than stock. he had a deer jump into his lap while he was riding. on a motorcycle with factory pipes, and a small engine, you can completely drown out your surroundings at highway speeds. that means that with loud pipes, the biker can't hear the car that doesn't see him. |
Senior Member
Registered: 03-14-04
|
quote: Sooo... following that logic out your arguing that having sirens on emergency vehicles is pointless? Now thats something worth testing!
No, sirens on emergency vehicles are not pointless, but they are also not used alone, and they are not a constant noise. Emergency vehicles use lights and sirens to bring both visual and aural attention to themselves, and even so, they are not always noticed. An emergency vehicle operator knows this, it is part of their training. Having a motorcycle with "look at me, I'm loud" pipes is just constant noise. Becomes part of the background of traffic sounds and is ignored. Sirens are not a constant thing, as stated, and can penetrate even the densest drivers head. In addition, as I have stated before, from personal experience, loud pipes work in both directions. If they are loud enough to penetrate into sealed sound-tight cars, they are also loud enough to block out other traffic noise from being heard by the motorcycle rider. And having rode motorcycles for about 18 years for the NYPD Highway Patrol, among other duties, I can state that being able to hear a car drifting over towards you is more important than trying to announce to the world that you are a motorcycle rider. Oh, and before you ask, we were trained to never, ever depend on the lights and sirens to get the attention of other drivers. Officers who did that tended to end up in trauma centers. |
Senior Member
Registered: 11-16-05
|
quote: I've got a citation to deny it.
Yep. I've seen deer still try to cross the road with a semi blasting his air horn at it. I've also seen a deer not be afraid at all of a person using a very loud chain saw, actually coming closer, out of I would guess, curiousity. Deer just don't seem to be bothered by loud noises. I'm completely with Scott here. I use to have a Kawasaki 500 triple two stroke with tuned pipes. That thing was about the loudest, most obnoxious sounding bike in town. I STILL had more than one person look me directly in the eye, and make a left turn in front of me. |
Senior Member
Registered: 03-29-07
|
quote: Originally posted by rick4070: quote: I've got a citation to deny it.
Yep. I've seen deer still try to cross the road with a semi blasting his air horn at it. I've also seen a deer not be afraid at all of a person using a very loud chain saw, actually coming closer, out of I would guess, curiousity. Deer just don't seem to be bothered by loud noises. I'm completely with Scott here. I use to have a Kawasaki 500 triple two stroke with tuned pipes. That thing was about the loudest, most obnoxious sounding bike in town. I STILL had more than one person look me directly in the eye, and make a left turn in front of me.
Same deal with my H-2 750 (I'll guarantee it was louder with the tunies.) But we shouldn't be discouraging the loud pipes, no helmet crowd; we really need more Organ Donors.  |
Senior Member
Registered: 11-16-05
|
quote: no helmet crowd; we really need more Organ Donors.
I heard a myth that after California passed their helmet law, that organ transplant centers wewe miffed, because of the decline in donors... |
Senior Member
Registered: 11-25-08
|
quote: Originally posted by ambdukias66:
Considering newer cars are more airtight and contain more insulation and sound deadening material, do louder exhausts on motorcycles contribute to motorcycle rider safety?
So we should all take the mufflers off our cars, trucks, motorcycles, vans, boats, atv's... so we can all be safe. What a wonderfully safe world we could all be annoyed in, NOT. Just put a muffler on it, stay out of peoples blind spots, and pay attention. Motorcycles with flashing headlights are a much more effective device for making your presence known. |
Junior Member
Registered: 10-31-09
|
Nah sorry, just not buying that. I'll conceed constant noise for a four cylinder inline bike traveling at a constant speed, but a twin or triple inline, or anything with a V gives a pulsating tone at cruise, and engines give distinctly different audio cues when under acceleration/deceleration. The only time a loud engine could be considered a constant noise is when a four cylinder inline machine is maintaining a constant cruising speed at a constant distance from the listener. And in that circumstance the rider will be encountering wind noise, which brings to the next statement, that its more important for a rider to be able to hear the sound of vehicles around them manuevering.
Challenging that statement I'm going to consider the other vehicles will be fitted with factory "Silent/low noise" Exhausts, the argument after all is that loud pipes dont save lives. The noise that would eminate from machines with quiet exhausts will primarily come from wind and tyre noise. I'm gonna reckon, that if vehicles are traveling at a speed high enough to give a noticeable wind noise, at that same speed, an average biker would be encountering wind noise around their helmet, that would drown out the noise from other vehicles, I dont believe the noise eminating from their own machine would have any greater effect at drowing out surrounding noise than the wind noise they're already encountering
For me to buy that a loud vehicle is not providing an enhanced means to assess its position relative to the listener, I'd need to be convinced that either the sound insulation in modern cars is capable of drowning out an exhaust note... which it isnt. Or that people have become so inocculated to audio cues in their daily lives, that they could as easily locate a mobile phone that is set to silent and has a flashing screen, to one that has an audible ring tone.
They cant, because humans visual input is constantly saturated, we need something with sufficient intensity to stand apart from the surrounding scenery for us to notice it, a flashing police light or motorcyclist would fill perhaps 2 to 10% of our total field of vision... it needs to be bright and distinct to be noticed above the background, and it also requires the visual cue to fall within our field of view. Our audio input on the other hand is also constantly saturated, but with a much lower threshold and over a smaller spectrum, and will be registered regardless of appearing within field of view. A loud audio cue will much more easily be recognised. Thats why a phone on silent with flashing lights is considered a discreet means of attracting attention, whilst one with an audio cue is much more obvious. Loud noises allow human beings to identify and locate things.
Cmon Myth busters, there's enough weighting on both sides of this argument to keep it going indefinately, we needs proven evidence!
|
Senior Member
Registered: 11-25-08
|
quote: Originally posted by Armstrod:
Nah sorry, just not buying that. I'll conceed constant noise for a four cylinder inline bike traveling at a constant speed, but a twin or triple inline, or anything with a V gives a pulsating tone at cruise, and engines give distinctly different audio cues when under acceleration/deceleration. The only time a loud engine could be considered a constant noise is when a four cylinder inline machine is maintaining a constant cruising speed at a constant distance from the listener. And in that circumstance the rider will be encountering wind noise, which brings to the next statement, that its more important for a rider to be able to hear the sound of vehicles around them manuevering.
Challenging that statement I'm going to consider the other vehicles will be fitted with factory "Silent/low noise" Exhausts, the argument after all is that loud pipes dont save lives. The noise that would eminate from machines with quiet exhausts will primarily come from wind and tyre noise. I'm gonna reckon, that if vehicles are traveling at a speed high enough to give a noticeable wind noise, at that same speed, an average biker would be encountering wind noise around their helmet, that would drown out the noise from other vehicles, I dont believe the noise eminating from their own machine would have any greater effect at drowing out surrounding noise than the wind noise they're already encountering
For me to buy that a loud vehicle is not providing an enhanced means to assess its position relative to the listener, I'd need to be convinced that either the sound insulation in modern cars is capable of drowning out an exhaust note... which it isnt. Or that people have become so inocculated to audio cues in their daily lives, that they could as easily locate a mobile phone that is set to silent and has a flashing screen, to one that has an audible ring tone.
They cant, because humans visual input is constantly saturated, we need something with sufficient intensity to stand apart from the surrounding scenery for us to notice it, a flashing police light or motorcyclist would fill perhaps 2 to 10% of our total field of vision... it needs to be bright and distinct to be noticed above the background, and it also requires the visual cue to fall within our field of view. Our audio input on the other hand is also constantly saturated, but with a much lower threshold and over a smaller spectrum, and will be registered regardless of appearing within field of view. A loud audio cue will much more easily be recognised. Thats why a phone on silent with flashing lights is considered a discreet means of attracting attention, whilst one with an audio cue is much more obvious. Loud noises allow human beings to identify and locate things.
Cmon Myth busters, there's enough weighting on both sides of this argument to keep it going indefinately, we needs proven evidence!
So we should all take the mufflers off our cars, trucks, motorcycles, vans, boats, atv's... so we can all be safe. What a wonderfully safe world we could all be annoyed in, NOT. Just put a muffler on it, stay out of peoples blind spots, and pay attention. Motorcycles with flashing headlights are a much more effective device for making your presence known. |
Junior Member
Registered: 11-03-08
|
On another note, what about the possibility of either:
1. The noise from the motorcycle keeping the motorcyclist awake
2. The noise from the motorcycle waking up/getting the attention of a driver who isn't paying enough attention or is falling asleep (something that should be solved by other means, of course)
|
Senior Member
Registered: 04-19-09
|
When I'm woken at 2am by a moroncyclist trying to prove he can make more noise than anyone else, I want to modify his exhaust. With a sledgehammer.
Or detcord. Then they could claim their bike was noisier.
|
Junior Member
Registered: 10-31-09
|
dangit, did I accidentally end up at the crabby old timers complaining website again... nope definately mythbusters forum.
Seriously guys, you get upset by loud bikes, fair enough, your obviously not part of that scene. Some people get wound up by emo's, some get wound up by pop music and some folk get wound up by folks who run around telling everyone to sit in the corner and be quiet because loud noises upset them, thankfully we live in countries that allow all of us the freedom to live as we please.
But the thread is about the 'myth' do loud pipes save lives. Not do loud pipes wind up the kind of folk that get wound up by loud pipes. Its a free web, ya'll can do as ya please, but why are you on the mythbusters site if you dont want to try and bust a myth.
btw, just to be clear on this, I really dont think "I dont like it" counts as rational arguement against loud pipes saving lives... no wait a minute... I'm an idiot. If your expressing a negative opinion towards something then its obviously pervaded your personal awareness. If its annoying you then loud motorcycle pipes must be making you aware of the presence of motorbikes... if you're aware of the presence of motorbikes nearby then you're being forcefully made aware of whats going on in your surroundings whether you like it or not. Therefore loud pipes do save lives!
|
Senior Member
Registered: 03-14-04
|
Armstrod, you are not reading what is being posted. I have ridden such loud-pipe motorcycles (some officers would have the baffles taken out of the mufflers. very loud and annoying, but drivers do NOT hear the noise, it is lost in the background.)
I know of several cases, myself included, where while using the lights and siren on a police motorcycle, and with the right of way going straight ahead in an intersection, an oncoming motorist made a left turn in front. Later claiming they did not see or hear the motorcycle or the lights and siren.
And again, loud pipes on the motorcycle you are riding masks the traffic noise of vehicles around you. I can't even begin to count the number of times I heard a vehicle getting too close, and was able to take evasive action to avoid the collision.
Should car drivers be more attentive? Yes, without question.
Will adding more noise to the background accomplish that? From personal experience, as I said, 18 years riding the things in New York City traffic (probably one of the most challenging motorcycle environments around) no, added noise just gets ignored.
You can argue all you want, but that is from my personal experience, and the experience of interviewing numerous drivers who hit motorcycles and claimed they never saw or heard them.
Situational awareness and responsibility for what you are doing are your best defenses.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 04-19-09
|
Crabby old-timers?
No, Sonny, just people who think that loud noise in the early hours of the morning in unnecessary.
I do a lot of shooting, so make my fair share of noise. But I don't do it in places, or at times, when it will wake people up.
Don't forget, there is only one alternative to growing old.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 11-25-08
|
quote: Originally posted by scott9282:
Armstrod, you are not reading what is being posted. I have ridden such loud-pipe motorcycles (some officers would have the baffles taken out of the mufflers. very loud and annoying, but drivers do NOT hear the noise, it is lost in the background.)
I know of several cases, myself included, where while using the lights and siren on a police motorcycle, and with the right of way going straight ahead in an intersection, an oncoming motorist made a left turn in front. Later claiming they did not see or hear the motorcycle or the lights and siren.
And again, loud pipes on the motorcycle you are riding masks the traffic noise of vehicles around you.
...City traffic (probably one of the most challenging motorcycle environments around) no, added noise just gets ignored.
This is particularly true in a city setting. Sure a loud bike is very loud in the city. It echoes off buildings and that is a very good reason that it gets lost in the background and ignored. The echoing makes it all but impossible to tell where the noise is coming from. And people get annoyed by this because they can't hear they're own radios. They're first thought is not, oh what can I do to help accommodate this nice motorcycle rider. Personaly I find Myself hoping You crash and the noise will go away. In other settings that the streets are not lined with high rises, if I do hear a loud bike coming up behind Me is not really audible until it is close enough to make little difference. Either way, once I hear it, all I have is contempt for the rudeness of it's rider. I will not do anything to put you in danger (the thought is there), but I will do nothing to make Your ride more welcome either. I used to like to make noise on My two wheel ride as well, then I turned 11 or so and took the playing cards off the schwinn. Grow up. There are noise ordinances as well, You driving Your little attention getter home from the bar at 2:30 in the morning is no doubt in violation. I have a pretty good guess how long it would take for the cops to arrive at my house if I where cranking up the stereo to the decibles of Your loud bike at 2-3 in the morning. I'm guessing You would not like it if I set up that stereo outside Your window and decided it was ok to play it as loud as I wanted while You are sleeping. So put a muffler on it and shut the schmuck up. |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
|
advertisement
|
