There is no way to prove that witching or divining for water works without spending millions of dollars drilling randomly placed wells versus "witched" wells.

However, I can easily prove that using a pair of, or one for that matter, divining rods to locate a conductor of sufficient length (greater than 10 ft or so). This can be done by anyone. The divining rods can be made of any conducting material. Brass or Aluminum welding rods work fine and they are not magnetic. A wire coat hanger works fine too but it might be accused of being influenced by magnetic fields. I have shown this technique to many people including a Phd. in Physics. All were convinced that it actually worked. None could explain the phemonen. It is a very cheap method of locating buried pipes and underground electrical cables. It even works on plastic sewer and water pipes. (Water Conducts)

Hinetreturn

[quote]None could explain the phemonen.[/quote]

I can; it's called the ideomoter effect.

Let me ask you a question: you say "this can be done by anyone". If it's so easy, and if anyone can do it, then why has no one ever - not once - been able to do so in a controlled, double blind test?

OK Mr. Ideomoter

You design the test. I'll show you.

The tests I have seen all envolved locating an object like a watch or ring and finding a like hidden object. I cannot tell what the conductor is, just where it is and approximately how long it is. It must be free of other conducting objects. It certainly won't work in a concrete parking lot with lots of embedded rebar. The 10ft length must also be horizontal. It doesn't work will if buried vertically (as in trying to lacate a buried well casing).

Relax a bit.

I wasn't criticizing you, I wasn't calling you out, and I wasn't asking for what you can and cannot do. I'm not interested in debunking dowsing myself, as it's already been done countless times before. All I did was offer a reasonable explaination for what is going on, and ask a simple question. One you avoided answering, I notice. So, do you have an answer, or don't you? Honestly, I'm just curious to know what your answer is.

For the record, I believe most dowsers are genuinely honest people who truely believe in what they are doing. That doesn't make the right, though.

I have seen many attempts to use divining for all sorts of things that will never work. There is the case of the box with a couple of antenna like devices on top like rabbit ears. This device was even sold to police departments to locate evidence. The theory was to put a gun or like item in the box and the antennas would point to the hidden matching item. I or you can locate any underground conductor, pipe or wire using this method. It is not dependent on any magic possesed by the operator.

I have never seen a double blind test or any test that was designed for this particular phenomen. A test could be designed to measure the force on the divining rods but would require a gyro stabilized platform and a very good one at that. Nothing else other than your hands can hold the rods steady and level enough. (I've tried). Even the smallest tilt of the rods and gravity overwhelms everything.

Please point me to any double blind tests you know of and I will tell you what is wrong with either the theory or the test. Any test envolving a forked wooden stick is automatically disqualified.

As I said, I'm not interested in seeing it busted, so I'm not going to do your leg work for you.

However, I can describe one I saw, many years ago, on TV. This was the traditional dowsing for water.

This setup was agreed to before hand by both dowsers and testers. Roughly 20 50 gal barrels were set up. Some were filled with water, some with sand. A simple wooden bridge was built over each one. The setup was built before the tester and dowsers arrived, and the people who created the step left prior to their arrival. During the testing, no one present knew which barrels had water, which had sand or how many of the barrels had sand/water (for all they knew, NONE had water). The dowsers being tested walked over the bridges & barrels to determine which had water. Some used forked sticks (which, despite your dismissal, is the traditional tool).

Statistically, none of the dowsers (who agreed that the conditions were fair, and that they COULD find the water) did better than they would with random guesses.

I'm assuming you know about the James Randi $1 million challenge, right? Any particular reason you haven't applied for it? The only two conditions are 1) a letter from an acedemic verifying your abililty (the PhD you convinced should be able to provide you with that) and 2) a "media presence" (if you can do as you say, it shouldn't be too dificult to get a write up in your local paper).

By the way, your automatic assumtion that any double-blind test debunking dowsing must be wrong

[quote]I will tell you what is wrong with either the theory or the test.[/quote]

is rather telling.

I was not aware of the James Randi challange. I have issued him a challange. I can easily take his $1,000,000. I also looked at his web site. The other challangers are absolute kooks.

Excellent! I think you're the first dowser to come to this site that is willing to actually go for the $1 million. Most look at his site, and dismiss it for one reason or another; "I don't need the money", or "it's insulting that dowsing is included as paranormal", or whatever excuse they need to back down when directly challenged. I'm glad to see someone who is willing to actually back up his claims.

In all seriousness, and with no sarcasm, I would really appreciate it if you could keep us up to date on your progress. I don't believe you'll win, mind you, but I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong.

Best of luck.

No one has taken it yet. When they let us hyperlink on here again I could show you a Randi video. If you google the amazing randi you should be able to find this for yourself. It shows him in Australia testing a series of dowsers using at least a couple of different tests. They all failed, of course they could all rationalize why it didn't work for them. Just as you would probably rationize your own case if you took a test.

Google "james Randi in Australia". It shows him testing a group of dowsers with a double blind test. They fail as all dowsers have failed in the past. When dosers look for pipes etc. and they find one using their dowsing techniques they forget that there is a more logical explanation. Underground pipes, power lines etc. are not buried haphazardlly. There is usually some logic in their position. Subconciously you may be aware of where the lines should be and when you cross that point you react via the ideomotor effect. Dowsing for water wells workds because it does not matter where you drill, water is under a huge percentage of land.

[quote]I was not aware of the James Randi challange. I have issued him a challange.[/quote]

I also eagerly await the outcome. Did you read and follow the requirements that he lists for an application to be accepted?

my friends grandfather used dousing rods and was quite good at finding water

i did a science project on that, made it to finals but the reasults were "this method is plausable to certin degree" i even tested the idimotor effect

Of course your friends grandfather was good at finding water rockerchic, but then a rocck is good at finding the ground when thrown up into the air

Randi actually has already tested dowsing in controlled conditions -- it's documented in one of his books (Flim-Flam, I think).

I've also watched it not work -- several years ago my house had a sewer problem, and no fewer than three so-called dowsers tried to determine the positions of the gas, water, and sewer lines. All failed so totally that there was no excuse. They all basically sighted along a line between the house and street, thinking the pipes had to be there. One claimed a result. I refused to let him dig up my lawn, and instead had a plumber drop a transponder down the sewer line. The dowser was over 75' incorrect.

Dowsing is basically wishful thinking. In the early 1800s, so-called "money diggers" roamed around the US, conning people into believing they could find buried pirate treasure using dowsing and other forms of divination. They swindled hundreds of people and never found a dime. I have an article in preparation for History Magazine about this topic, which will hopefully hit the presses later this year.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7461912885649996034

This is the James Randi in Australia video. He challenges a group of Australean dowsers.

[quote]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7461912885649996034

This is the James Randi in Australia video. He challenges a group of Australean dowsers.[/quote]

He also did some work in Italy...may have been in the 80s.

I think he may also have had a show in the U.K.. I have seen some videos of him debunking a series of people , all of whom had British accents.