It's not the speed I'm worried about - honestly I think the current IRL cars have got the speed angle just about right - the next-gen car needs to be about that fast on the ovals(but I think a power boost for the road courses is an absolute necessity. Hence why I support turbos - easy to adjust for both levels cheaply).

My reason for calling the current IRL cars deathtraps is my previously-mentioned annoyance over their propensity to get airborne, combined with the driving position. Not long after I started racing I got a chance to sit in a 2002 Dallara, and if that's the seating position the current cars use then I'm surprised we don't have more back injuries. Of course I guess a saving grace there is that straight-on forward impacts are rare in this kind of racing. But even so, a more upright driving position would be much safer.

The CART cars I raced admittedly weren't much better in that regard, but at least I didn't feel like I'd lose several inches of height if I hit the wall head on at any speed over 20 MPH.

I would like to see turbos on the cars, still Theres no reason that the indycars should be running 225-230 mph on these big ovals...thats how drivers die. My infiniti pro car, as well my atlantic and formula mazda were all about the same seating arangement. I had a hit in an atlantic at 175 mph..nothing left but the monoqaque...and walked away bruised up...i could couldnt imagine 230. FYI the HANS definatly saved my life...the hit was so hard,it dislodged the teather forn my helmet...but thank god it did the job!

Bye the way, I dont agree that sitting more upright would help in any way....I flipped a sprint car @ new samyrna doing about 100...which sits straight up....I broke both of my collor bones...so as you can imagine not a big fan of sitting any other way but lying down.

Now Sprint cars are death machines!

When you're upright, it takes an extreme situation(like a bad flip) before the injury risk is raised. In a position where you're nearly laying down, you increase that chance for spinal compression in more, shall we say, "conventional" crashes. It's easier to suffer a severe spinal injury through compression than through any other means. And spinal injuries are the third most likely cause of a career-ending injury in a race crash - behind head and neck injuries. But head and neck safety is covered sufficiently by the the HANS device, as you noted. Preventing spinal injury is best dealt with by finding the perfect seating position for a crash. It's the primary reason that when Champ Car commissioned the Panoz DP01 they insisted on a more upright driving position in it. Or to be more specific, Champ Car's safety experts insisted on it.

Additionally, sitting more upright moves your legs a tad further away from the front of the car, which reduces the chances of you becoming the next Alex Zanardi or Davey Hamilton.

i've also heard of this for years and i think it is possible too! It would be a difficult on but the mythbusters are geniouses so they would figure it out no sweat!

I guess a slight more upright seating would probobly be much better for compression injuries..which yes would help for the lower extremities,which both you and i know ends many of drivers careers.(BTW-Took my favorite driver off the track...alex zanardi.) Unfortunatly indy racing is all about speed speed speed. So a higher seatind arangment means more drag..big no no. Did you hear about the american formula one team....just gave their short list of drivers..Ryan is one of them!!!

can america compete in F1???

After announcing plans in February for a US-based entry to the 2010 championship, Formula One veterans Peter Windsor and Ken Anderson have been hard at work laying the foundations for their fledgling team. Although they must wait until June to discover whether their entry has been accepted, Windsor and Anderson’s preparations are well underway, with their car scheduled to debut in November.

“We are working very hard behind the scenes, and at the same time from a public point of view, are waiting for everything to be formalised by the FIA,” former Williams team manager Windsor told Formula1.com. “The car is well underway being designed and we start making parts in late June and should have our car on the ground by late September.

“We will torture test the car and the suspension in October/November. Depending on the engine, we will be run the car in the first week of January. But if all falls perfectly into place, we would like the car to be running in November/December.”

With such a short turnaround in mind for their team, Anderson and Windsor have already moved into their American base in Charlotte, North Carolina, and that they have started to hire key team members, ahead of a bigger recruitment push in the autumn.

“Right now (our headcount is) about 20,” explained former Ligier technical director Anderson. “We are setting up the infrastructure, the management and the design department. In June we will be hiring those who will do the manufacturing, so we are moving from design to manufacturing and towards the end of the year be will be setting up our European facility and will start hiring the people who will be working on the team.”

As well as their burgeoning workforce and stateside factory, which will have the benefit of a 100-percent scale wind tunnel, the pair is also considering plans to feature American driving talent in their team.

“We have a shortlist of guys that we are looking at,” said Windsor. “There are some Americans doing quite well right now in single-seater racing from Ryan Hunter-Reay, Jonathan Summerton, Danica Patrick, Graham Rahal and A.J. Allmendinger.

“And then the next generation looks really strong! You’ve got four guys there: Gaby Chavez who is winning a lot of BMW races right now, Alex Rossi who is American and was the World BMW champion last year, Conor Daly, the son of Derek Daly, and Josef Newgarden who is winning in England right now.”

Back at their February launch Anderson and Windsor promised to take advantage of the FIA’s cost-cutting initiatives to run a thrifty, cost-effective team. So news that Formula One racing’s governing body wants to introduce the option of a £40-million budget cap was welcomed.

“It’s not far from what our budget has been anyway, long before the cap discussion came up,” said Anderson. “We’ve been planning on starting from scratch, buying only what we need and having only the people that we need. It’s much easier to start from zero and work your way up, than to run on £300-400 million and work your way down.”

The official entry list for the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship - expected to comprise 13 teams - will be published on 12 June, 2009.

A more upright seating arrangement won't affect the drag much if the car is designed for it - the Panoz DP01 Champ Car was designed with a more upright position, but it's overall drag was lower than the old Lolas. Plus it produced even MORE downforce than the old cars(it was able to give F1 cars a run for their money in overall lap times).

And yeah, I know all about US Grand Prix Engineering.

Fox_ do you think the US can actually compete in F1

I don't see why not. Even without a budget cap in place(it's looking increasingly likely that Ferrari will win this battle one way or another) current economic situations have made low budget teams feasible for at least the next two or three years. Additionally, they've worked out a deal with Epsilon Euskadi(an LMP1 constructor) to use their factory as a satellite facility to minimize need for regular travel to and from the US.

A German company named Gumpert, which makes road cars that can exceed 200 miles per hour, have designed a car that CAN work when driven upside down. According to the car show Top Gear (which originally reported and tested the car), they may even have a tunnel in which they can do it. However, they have not found any driver crazy enough to try it.

It is probably relatively easy to borrow a previous-generation race car or track car and put it on a weight sensor in a wind tunnel. This should easily allow you to determine the downforce.
If you wanted to put it in the tunnel upside down, however, you would need some system to attach it to the ceiling in the first place, prevent it from falling when the fans build up speed (and if the fans break), and have a way of safely lowering it when the experiment is over. Even this would only be a "in theory" test, because the the aerodynamics may be different when the car is actually driving because the engine intakes a large amount of air.
You may also need to redesign the seatbelt so that it can hold someone upside down and in a way that they can still drive.

No matter what, this would bring spectacular ratings to the episode.

I would hope so....This myth really should be tried.. I was watching INDY Quals; jon beakus said there is 2500 lbs of downforce @ INDY and almost 5000 lbs at the much slower road course long beach...SOMEONE GET THIS DONE!

mythbusters get this done!!

Yes

With everyone posting this myth...MYTHBUSTERS NEED TO DO THIS~

To add to the other full-scale testing ideas posted above... (an idea in addition to the wind tunnel idea)

What about a hill?

If a normal car zips over a particular hill and becomes airborne - wouldn't the F1 race car remain in contact with the surface instead -- if the conditions are right?

In other words, if the math is done right, a hill with a particular curve could be selected and a speed that should put the car past 0g and on into 1 negative g. Like the 'vomit commit' only done with pavement and going for one negative gravity instead of zero gravity.

Then, you use other cars with similar characteristics and have them zip over the spot - they become airborne due to the fact that they are temporarily subjected to -1 g. BUT - the F1 race car goes over the same thing at the same speed and stays totally in contact with the Earth.

(It wouldn't be a ramp. It would be a gentle rolling hill that when hit fast enough, the car goes airborne if not for the F1 car design).

ive heard of this too, dont remember if it was the F40 or F50 from ferrari, but supposely thanks to the aerodinamic of the car over certain speed the car can run upside down.....i think it was on a discovery channel documental

I've have met Ryan many times, when he was karting out here in California. Anyways,back to the topic. The basics of this myth are strictly aerodynamical. Enginge oil and fuel delivery aren't really a concern to "prove" this myth. If you talk to any racer car engineer, they will tell you that race cars with wings produce 1000's of lbs. of downforce at a given speed. We all know that wings are effective enough to send airplanes aloft, so if a car can produce enough downforce to exceed it's weight, then it should be able to "stick" to the ceiling of an upside-down roadway. Still, it'd be cool to see.