An airplane taxies in one direction on a moving conveyor belt going the opposite direction at the same speed as the plane.

Can the plane take off?

Whether your answer is yes or no, please explain why. Thanks.

Yes.

The plane takes off. There is no way you can hold an airplane back by spinning its wheels.

The plane takes off.

http://hingedelephant.wordpress.com/2007/02/27/4/

No - This applies to fixed wing aircraft and not VTOL aircraft or helicopters on a treadmill.

What makes an aircraft fly is "lift" - air flowing over the upper and lower portion of the wing surface. VTOL aircraft and helicopters must provide lift as well except this is achieved by the air flow over the propeller or just pushing enough air downward. Adequate lift for an aircraft occurs at "rotate" speed on the runway - then and only then do you take off. No lift no fly!!!This speed is different for every aircraft. The propellers (on fixed wing aircraft) do not provide this airflow - it is the aircraft moving through the air. If you can not achieve "rotate" by a point on the runway you must abort the takeoff. And this speed is affected by other factors such as barometric pressure ect.

Anyway the tires are on the treadmill and aircraft wheels are not turned by the propellers.

The only exception to this rule is alternative propulsion methods where flight is not determined by airflow over a surface of the aircraft or sheer forced air downward. In this case it does not matter if your on a treadmill.

Hire Don Imus to pitch this. He's looking for a
job. If that doesn't work, maybe Howard Stern would take you seriously.

[quote]Whether your answer is yes or no, please explain why. Thanks.[/quote]

Yes, because there's nothing a conveyor belt can do to hold the plane in place.

NO... the plane will not take off, simple physics, the wings are designed to get the plane airborn with lift from the air, if the plane isnt moving through the air there is no way the plane can get off the ground... all the conveyor belt would do is move the wheels, the wheels do nothing in getting a plane airborn except make it go fast enough to cause lift from the air... which is why a plane can also take off from the water (if it is rigged with pontoons)

im sorry i think i read the question wrong... do you mean the conveyor belt moving the plane forward, or in the opposite direction just moving the wheels... i was thinking the latter

[quote]Can the plane take off?[/quote]

No, not if it just taxis. It needs full throttle or near that, to take off.

I'm amazed by the fact that I left this board for a few months, come back, and this is STILL being debated.

[quote]if the plane isnt moving through the air there is no way the plane can get off the ground[/quote]

Why isn't the plane moving? There's no force stopping it, certainly not the wheels... they spin freely.

[quote]if the plane isnt moving through the air there is no way the plane can get off the ground...[/quote]

Of course not. The airplane will move down the runway at normal speed and takeoff as usual. The only difference would be that the wheels will be spinning 2x normal speed. The whole myth tries to trick you into thinking the airplane will remain stationary because of the treadmill, but it wont.

[quote]NO... the plane will not take off, simple physics[/quote]

Actually, simple physics will dictate that the plane DOES take off; a simple force diagram will show you just that.

[quote]all the conveyor belt would do is move the wheels, the wheels do nothing in getting a plane airborn except make it go fast enough to cause lift from the air...[/quote]

Actually, you just stated the reason the airplane will be able to move forward on the belt.

The plane takes off because the wheels are not the thrust mechanism (a propeller or jet moves a plane forward not linked to the wheels unlike a car that transfers energy to the wheels to move forward. De Ja vu? I really think I have seen this posted previously.

I just saw the post from hinged elephant site (davejones). Who wrote all this. I flew in the Navy for 10 years (C130 and 707 aircraft and helicopters) and these people obviously have no idea of how flight occurs for fixed wing aircraft.

A stationary fixed wing aircraft on a treadmill does not produce lift just by thrust from the engines or the air generated by the propellers over the wings. The friction of the tires on the ground have little effect on the rotate speed of the aircraft - easily overcomed by a few horsepower in the engines. A Car is not an aircraft so the basis of the argument is initially flawed and goes downhill from there.

The aircraft HAS to move through the air creating the pressure on the under side of the wing - if this does not occur - no lift no fly. An aircraft on a treadmill is stationary and thereby produces no lift or air flow on the wings - you can not get beyond this conclusion. From seriously reading what the post suggested they over looked the first rule of flight and leaped to a conclusion. The propellers or jet engines do not provide lift - they just get the aircraft moving down the runway to reach rotate speed and keep the aircraft flying. If the aircraft does not move through the atmosphere at the specifications set by that aircraft - the aircraft does not fly unless your are creating airflow from some other source.

Now I am a person that believes anything is possible but you at least have to have an idea based in reality and the limitations of our planet earth. And even then I believe (know) lift is possible by other means - just not this way.

[quote]I really think I have seen this posted previously.[/quote]

Because you more than likely have.

If you say yes then mabye you should retake 5th grade science because there is no air moving across the wings unless the wind was hitting the wings at more then 100mph. and it depends, if the engine is running, if the engine is running then there is forward trust but once againg if there is no wind moving over the wings then no lift will can happen.

I haven't been to this message board in so long. Can't believe this is still being debated. I thought the answer was conclusively yes.

It's easy enough to test. There must be proof out there.