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Senior Member
Registered: 03-29-07
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For those of you that drive Toyota or Lexus, have your dealer check your drivers floor mats. There was a horrible story on the news tonight about a poorly designed gas pedal on Lexus and how it can jam down from the floor mats if not properly installed. A Cal Highway Cop had the throttle of his Lexus jam down and he and 3 others in the car raced along the road at full throttle. One of the passengers called 9-1-1 and begged for help and then the Lexus slammed into another vehicle and all 4 passengers were incinerated.
Looks like Lexus is trying to out Pinto the Pinto.
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Senior Member
Registered: 03-29-07
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Junior Member
Registered: 12-13-02
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I did one day throw the floor mat out of my Toyota in rage, after it kept bunching up near the pedals.
I put it back in recently and it hasn't be on a problem yet.
Also do you have a link or any proof of your story? Otherwise it sort of sounds like BS. Also if you had time to "call 911 and beg for help," I'm pretty sure you would have time to reach down and pull the mat off.
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Senior Member
Registered: 10-28-07
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quote: Also if you had time to "call 911 and beg for help," I'm pretty sure you would have time to reach down and pull the mat off.
Or shift into neutral, or turn off the engine, or... Especially for a CHP officer. |
Senior Member
Registered: 10-28-07
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I did find the story several places about the Aug 28 accident, and it says the floor mats were recalled in 2007 due to complaints of the accelerator sticking between their ribs, but also says those mats were not installed in the accident in question.
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Senior Member
Registered: 03-29-07
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It was a major story on the ABC news last night and they said the floor mat caused the accident and demonstrated how. I can't access the story on the ABC website to give you a link because I don't have XP and the video section won't work. It would seem that you could do something, but they clearly didn't. The story also said that some cars had the wrong mats installed and some vain idiots bought a second set of mats and put them on top of the originals to preserve their appearance. There is a notch in the mats to allow the floating pedal to clear, but if the mat is out of place or curled up, the bottom of the pedal can catch on the notch when fully depressed and not return. I don't really care if you don't believe it; they had pictures, videotape, and the 9-1-1 call. It happened.
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Senior Member
Registered: 10-28-07
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I wasn't calling BS to it happening, dfez... merely questioning *why* it happened.
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Senior Member
Registered: 01-16-07
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Beyond one person having trouble with their mats, is there word on which models and years that this is a problem for?
As Dfez describes it, having too many mats, installed incorrectly is bound to be a problem. It still sounds like someone being stupid.
Is this really a design problem in the car or is it just people doing dumb stuff and then whining when they get into trouble?
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Senior Member
Registered: 10-28-07
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The original noted problem was Lexus ES 350's and some Camrys for the 2007 and 2008 model years http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKN2626974420070927and: quote: Brian Lyons, vehicle safety and quality communication manager for Toyota USA, said Wednesday that the all-weather mats, which are made of rubber, were redesigned at the time of the recall. He said the new mats from the manufacturer have a different shape and retaining system and are designed not to interfere with the gas pedal even if not properly clipped to the floor.
Lyons said the recalled rubber mats were made to use in place of the carpet mats, but some consumers incorrectly put them on top of the carpet mats.
According to the NHTSA recall report, there were incidents in which double mats led to sudden acceleration.
Hill, the Sheriff's Department investigator, said the Lexus in the accident did not have double mats.
...
Investigators do not know if Saylor tried to shift the car into neutral or if he tried to shut off the engine.
The NHTSA recall report from 2007 found that some Lexus drivers with stuck accelerators tried to turn off the car with the engine control button but didn't know the button must be held for three seconds.
http://www3.signonsandiego.com...bn09chp-crash-probe/ |
Senior Member
Registered: 11-25-08
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quote: Originally posted by dfez:
For those of you that drive Toyota or Lexus, have your dealer check your drivers floor mats. There was a horrible story on the news tonight about a poorly designed gas pedal on Lexus and how it can jam down from the floor mats if not properly installed. A Cal Highway Cop had the throttle of his Lexus jam down and he and 3 others in the car raced along the road at full throttle. One of the passengers called 9-1-1 and begged for help and then the Lexus slammed into another vehicle and all 4 passengers were incinerated.
Looks like Lexus is trying to out Pinto the Pinto.
A CHP Officer, driving 3 passengers in a SPEEDING 270Hp, 254lb-ft of torque Lexus with the go peddle on the floorboard? Not trying to be insensitive to their family members but why was the gas peddle on the floor? The investigation clearly needs more questions. If it was a 20 year old with 8-10 points on his license, driving a 270hp car with the gas peddle on the floorboard, crashing and killing 3 innocent victims, I'm sure the focus of the investigation would quickly turn from "why did the gas peddle stick" to "why was the gas peddle on the floorboard to begin with" I'm really not trying to make light of this, I just think there is more to the story than what is being told. Somebody was in a real big hurry, angry, or just showing off, it's a loaner car, why not beat on it a bit. I wonder how fast He was going and how far He was from the intersection before He lifted His foot and realized the throttle was stuck, If He would have just slammed on the brakes, He could have at least locked up the front tires and spun the car. I hit a large rock in the road in My old 69 Buick, the throttle stuck wide open because thats where the throttle was when I hit the rock. I immediately drove the car off the road and put the car into a spin. Then promptly put it in neutral so I could get out and unstick the throttle. Even though this story does not involve a floormat, it does show that if the driver is at all adept, He/She is not helpless in such a situation. I also had a floormat hang up the gas peddle in My mothers car years ago, this too happened when I had the peddle on the floor. I pulled the mat back and problem solved. |
Senior Member
Registered: 11-25-08
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quote: dfez
Senior Member
Registered: 03-29-07 Posted 09-16-09 08:37 PM For those of you that drive Toyota or Lexus, have your dealer check your drivers floor mats. There was a horrible story on the news tonight about a poorly designed gas pedal on Lexus and how it can jam down from the floor mats if not properly installed. A Cal Highway Cop had the throttle of his Lexus jam down and he and 3 others in the car raced along the road at full throttle. One of the passengers called 9-1-1 and begged for help and then the Lexus slammed into another vehicle and all 4 passengers were incinerated.
Looks like Lexus is trying to out Pinto the Pinto.
I also had a 79 Pinto wagon, the only way to get anywhere in that car (automatic tranny) was with the gas peddle somewhere's near the floor. The peddle never stuck, and the the car never exploded in a ball of flames. I guess the Pinto was a better car than the Lexus. |
Senior Member
Registered: 11-25-08
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quote: Originally posted by JeffBro: quote: Originally posted by dfez:
For those of you that drive Toyota or Lexus, have your dealer check your drivers floor mats. There was a horrible story on the news tonight about a poorly designed gas pedal on Lexus and how it can jam down from the floor mats if not properly installed. A Cal Highway Cop had the throttle of his Lexus jam down and he and 3 others in the car raced along the road at full throttle. One of the passengers called 9-1-1 and begged for help and then the Lexus slammed into another vehicle and all 4 passengers were incinerated.
Looks like Lexus is trying to out Pinto the Pinto.
A CHP Officer, driving 3 passengers in a SPEEDING 270Hp, 254lb-ft of torque Lexus with the go peddle on the floorboard? Not trying to be insensitive to their family members but why was the gas peddle on the floor? The investigation clearly needs more questions. If it was a 20 year old with 8-10 points on his license, driving a 270hp car with the gas peddle on the floorboard, crashing and killing 3 innocent victims, I'm sure the focus of the investigation would quickly turn from "why did the gas peddle stick" to "why was the gas peddle on the floorboard to begin with" I'm really not trying to make light of this, I just think there is more to the story than what is being told. Somebody was in a real big hurry, angry, or just showing off, it's a loaner car, why not beat on it a bit. I wonder how fast He was going and how far He was from the intersection before He lifted His foot and realized the throttle was stuck, If He would have just slammed on the brakes, He could have at least locked up the front tires and spun the car. I hit a large rock in the road in My old 69 Buick, the throttle stuck wide open because thats where the throttle was when I hit the rock. I immediately drove the car off the road and put the car into a spin. Then promptly put it in neutral so I could get out and unstick the throttle. Even though this story does not involve a floormat, it does show that if the driver is at all adept, He/She is not helpless in such a situation. I also had a floormat hang up the gas peddle in My mothers car years ago, this too happened when I had the peddle on the floor. I pulled the mat back and problem solved.
Correction: 7 innocent people, 3 in His car, 4 in the other. |
Senior Member
Registered: 11-12-04
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While it's sad to see someone die because of it.
I'm still trying to reconcile the idea that the only thing anybody in the car could think to do is call 911 for help. NOBODY thought put the transmission in neutral or turn off the engine? Apparently even the 911 operator asked if they could turn off the engine. That is a scary state of affairs.
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Senior Member
Registered: 03-29-07
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I suspect that swerving through traffic in excess of 110 may have
instilled a level of panic that precluded thinking of that; especially with certain death rushing toward you. I had a similar experience riding in my friend Marshall's Vette-fortunately, he had the presence of mind to push in the clutch and worry about the engine later. Does anyone know if Lexus is equipped with Drive-By-Wire or does it just have a throttle cable?
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Senior Member
Registered: 03-29-07
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Apparently this problem has risen to the level of a National Recall. They announced yesterday that Toyota owners should remove the deadly driver's floor mat until Toyota comes up with a fix. Maybe they need to cut 1/2 inch off the bottom of the pedal.
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Senior Member
Registered: 11-12-04
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I still having a hard time seeing why during all the time it took to make a 911 call and talk to the operator no one could figure out how to put the vehicle in neutral or turn the engine off. Unless there is something bizarre about the car's design, the driver seems to have had plenty of time to turn off the engine or shift into neutral. Why did he fail to do this?
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Senior Member
Registered: 10-28-07
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quote: The NHTSA recall report from 2007 found that some Lexus drivers with stuck accelerators tried to turn off the car with the engine control button but didn't know the button must be held for three seconds.
and quote: Investigators do not know if Saylor tried to shift the car into neutral or if he tried to shut off the engine.
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Senior Member
Registered: 03-29-07
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Maybe Toyota needs to do what every form of racing requires from MX to F-1 and install a kill switch within easy reach. Or they could shorten the bottom of the gas pedal so it doesn't catch on the mat when depressed. I looked at the pedals on a few of my cars-all Chrysler products- and all have enough clearance to the floor so that I can put my foot under it up to the instep. The Toyota design just isn't very good.
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Senior Member
Registered: 11-06-08
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I drive a 2006 Toyota Tundra, so it looks like I'm OK (for now); the recall for Tundras runs 2007 - 2010.
The drivers-side floor mat is actually hooked to the floor, to prevent it from sliding up under the pedal. There is a plastic hook that comes up from the floor (near the corner opposite the pedal) and goes through a grommeted hole in the mat.
And while I agree that the driver in question had quite a few options - including having the passenger simply reach down and pull the pedal up - I also can see where such an extreme panic situation could easily override logic. Of course, this WAS an LOE, trained to deal with extreme situations. And at least one of the people, it seems, had the presence of mind to make a phone call and relate the situation.
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Senior Member
Registered: 08-08-09
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Just wondering, what would be the net result if the driver would hit the brakes in this situation, with the gas at full throttle? One might reasonably expect that to be the first thing people would try here, after all.
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