It's not the gas pedal that's the problem. It's the hooks that are supposed to keep the floor mats from bunching.

If you have a Toyota that is within the recalls parameters, remove your floor mat. If you haven't removed your floor mats and the car accelerates out of control because of it, downshift into neutral. your car will still rev because the accelerator is stuck, but you won't be going anywhere. Don't hit the brakes and panic. If your brakes heat up enough they will catch fire, and then your tires may catch fire. Especially don't pull your emergency brake unless you want to be speeding AND spinning out of control down the road.

They won't put a kill switch in the car. If you know enough about how to put them in yourself, I'm sure there are all kinds of aftermarket killswitches if you're that paranoid about it. Since Toyota doesn't have a fix for this yet, just remove your floor mats. All that means is when you detail your car, you'll actually have to vacuum inside.

It is the gas pedal that is the problem. ABC News clearly illustrated that the bottom of the gas pedal catches on the displaced floor mats. The idea that the floor mats gave to be retained by hooks is absurd. Floor mats get wadded up or out of position all the time just from people getting in and out of the car. There is no need for the bottom of the pedal to be so close to the floor and, if it wasn't, the problem wouldn't exist.

I always thought that the brake system of a car should be able to stop a car against the maximum power the engine could produce. I.E., produce more braking HP than the engine's peak HP.

Of course, my mindset is still stuck in the era with mechanical systems operating cars until I had the DUH moment; there is really no need to redesign anything. Every thing you need is already there in the modern engine management system. You just need to modify the Cruise Control routines. Every Cruise Control ever built has a system which shuts it off when you step on the brakes. All you would need to do is flash an update into the ECU that would interrupt the injectors or the spark if the Throttle Position Sensor shows WFO and the driver applies and holds the brakes. There is no normal operating scenario that would require that condition on the road. All the sensors are already there; it just requires a software update to make it a Fail Safe.

Of course, the Car Companies are loath do do something like this since it would be an admission of a design defect. Here come the Lawyers.

We own a Toyota Avalon, which is also affected by this recall. A co-worker owns a Toyota Prius, also affected.

The problem is two-fold.

First problem is the floor mat can come loose and cause the accelerator pedal to jam down. This can occur from just having your feet on the floor mat and it comes loose from the clips and jams the gas pedal.

The second problem is that the crumpled floor mat can also bunch up under the brake pedal (this happened to the co-worker. she got lucky and was able to pull the mat out and had time to stop.) rendering the brakes pretty much inoperative.

Shifting into neutral is an option, unfortunately these incidents seem to happen when there's the least amount of time to react. The "reasonable man" (legal term BTW) response is to try and step on the brake pedal. When this doesn't work, people try again. Then they'll look for alternatives. Sadly this takes time the driver often doesn't have.

Likewise turning off the car. Since the brakes may not be operable, the lack of power brakes is sort of moot. Loss of power steering at cruising speeds is less of a problem than most people make it out to be. It's bad, but not impossible to deal with.

The big problem with turning off the engine is that people will go too far. And mistakenly turn the key all the way to the "off" and "lock" position. This can result in a locked steering wheel. Which is a poor set of circumstances.

Removing the driver's side front floor mat seems to be the best short-term solution.

guess that floor mat covered the emergency hand brake too

I read this story with wonder. The exact incident happened to me and my family. I had my lexis on cruise and it started to accelerate on its own. The car reached over 100 miles per hour. I tried to turn the cruise off but it would not disengage. I was going down I65 to Indianapolis totally out of control. I tried to use the brake and they too overheated. We were attempting to call 911. We were passing cars and trucks we were overcoming on the shoulder of the road. By placing the car in neutral and allowing the engine to over rev and using the brake pedal I was able to alternate and finally get the car slowed down enough that I was able to turn the engine off and coast to a stop. I was scared to drive that car. I brought it to lexis after the incident which occurred in May of 2009. They told me it was the floor mats and they secured them. I always thought it was the cruise control since the car had recently been repaired after being in a bad accident. I was not able to turn the car off till I slowed it to under 5 miles per hour. Wow.

quote:

Originally posted by Markov Chain:
Just wondering, what would be the net result if the driver would hit the brakes in this situation, with the gas at full throttle? One might reasonably expect that to be the first thing people would try here, after all.

While I'm no expert on cars, I'm willing to wager 'shredded brakes' is the answer you are looking for.

This really does sound outlandish...which makes it all the sadder that it really happened (and does happen). Seriously, death by floor mats? What a way to go.

I would like to see this myth tested. I believe that simply just hitting the gas pedal while it is "stuck" would... well.. un-stick it. Granted, no one thinks of hitting the gas pedal while it is already all the way down to the floor, but if you think about it, most gas pedals are designed on a kind of see-saw motion. if you hit the top, the bottom will come un stuck, therefore fixing the problem of the floor mats. Therefore if the accelerator is still stuck after you hit it and jar it loose from the floor mat, you know that there's more of a problem than the floor mat's themselves. Which I believe there is, Toyota just doesn't want to come clean about it.

Based on last night's news, there may be more to the problem than just the pedal and the mat. The Feds are launching an investigation into an electronics problem with the Toyota engine control system. I wasn't sure before, but they seemed to be saying that Toyota is using a "Gas By Wire" system where there is no direct mechanical link (cable) between the pedal and the throttle body. The pedal simply sends an electronic input to the ECU and it controls the engine power. While this may be cool for F-1 cars which are rebuilt every 300 miles, I cringe at the idea of Drive By Wire in a vehicle in day to day usage for a decade. I guess I just have too much experience with electronics.

Added note: According to tonight's news, they are recalling just about everything Toyota has sold since 2006 as well as Lexus to check this problem.

Further info: This is ab article detailing the problem and the recalled cars.

Runaway Toyotas

quote:

I guess I just have too much experience with electronics.

How often does your TV change the channel or turn itself on on its own?

Nobody can seem to get the ECU to cause ABC's spurious uncontrolled accelerations, and the crash from the OP was found by the NHTSA to be due to an after-market mat that was physically too long.

quote:

Originally posted by roofingguy:

quote:

I guess I just have too much experience with electronics.

How often does your TV change the channel or turn itself on on its own?

Nobody can seem to get the ECU to cause ABC's spurious uncontrolled accelerations, and the crash from the OP was found by the NHTSA to be due to an after-market mat that was physically too long.

My 42" Akai Plasma TV turns itself off with no provocation. It's about 6 years old and almost every time it I want to watch TV I need to turn it on two - three times before it will stay on. Then it still occasionally shuts itself off at random. My Mothers Gran Prix has problems with the horn beeping as if in a parking lot and someone pushed the panic button on the remote. The trunk sometimes won't latch (has electronic release), other times it will. And speaking of things controled by computer, they are some of the most unpredictable electronics. My PC and My Mac both come up with errors far more often than I would want from something controling the throttle of a car, wether I'm in it or on the road near it.

quote:

How often does your TV change the channel or turn itself on on its own?

It actually turns itself off once in a while on it's own.

I also have a back up computer that sometimes has to be turned on and off 3 or 4 times before it boots.

I should add that I've dealt with a long list of electronic problems that have been found to be undiagnosable and intermittent. Try living with video cameras for decades.

quote:

Originally posted by Demon_Keeper:
Since Toyota doesn't have a fix for this yet, just remove your floor mats. All that means is when you detail your car, you'll actually have to vacuum inside.

Actually, I had the floor mat on the drivers side of my Tercel off for a few months (just out of sheer laziness, not safety) and my heel started to wear a hole in the floor of the car where I rest it for the gas and clutch. Yikes! Had to put the mat back in.

I'm not worried about this myth what so ever. If somehow the mat actually did jam BOTH pedals, put the clutch in and gently pull up on the e-brake. (Clutch can't get stuck in, and neither can neutral on your gear shifter).


I am curious as to Mythbusters doing the "gas and brake all the way on at the same time" test. Same as I wasn't satisfied with the "shift into reverse while driving" myth. Let's take that a little further and do everything you're not supposed to in the car