JUST USE GREEK FIRE!!! IT'S MORE EFFICIENT AND IT BURNS SHIPS FASTER!!!

I watched the episode when Adam and Jamie concluded that this myth was busted "to an extent" would but only if object stayed stationary for a long time. The reason I am posting this is the history channel just showed a man, by the name of Ionas Sakus? recreated myth twice the last time was in November 1973 in Greece. Claiming to have caught fire to a small ship in a matter of minutes. Please revisit this myth.
Daniel

The show is Ancient Discoveries. Archimedes' use of solar power aired 1:00 pm saturday 12 2008 on hte history channel.

quote:

The reason I am posting this is the history channel just showed a man, by the name of Ionas Sakus? recreated myth twice the last time was in November 1973 in Greece. Claiming to have caught fire to a small ship in a matter of minutes. Please revisit this myth.

There's nothing to revisit. Sakkas' setup was even more rigged and unrealistic than the mythbusters - a tiny wooden model, fixed, at a distance of only a few yards that took several minutes to ignite.

Give it up. They've investigated a half-dozen variants of this improbable idea, and every one of them failed. There's nothing new to add. It could not have been done with the technology available at the time, period.

Myth busted.

Why not increase the number of reflective shields to several hundred, a thousand?

quote:

Why not increase the number of reflective shields to several hundred, a thousand?

Because it makes aiming that much more difficult, as they demonstrated on the show. And now you have to produce hundreds of planar mirrors, in an era when producing even one of any significant couldn't be done.

Stick a fork in it.

The episode on the death ray was well done and I thought was a fair test of the concept. I am of the opinion that the death ray simply wouldn't have been practical as a destructive weapon.

A version of it may well have been tried, however - and the effectiveness was subsequently embellished.

Although the actual destructive capacity is less than impressive, it still may have had some use as a psychological weapon. Imagine being a soldier or sailor who was momentarily caught in the beam? These were superstitious times, understand, and to them, with no experience of any kind with such a thing, who knows what they would have concluded?

quote:

A version of it may well have been tried, however - and the effectiveness was subsequently embellished.

If it was, no one ever bothered mentioning it.

The first mention of any sort of burning ray doesn't appear, as noted, for almost a thousand years after the battle took place. It was invented by medieval monks for theological reasons.

Actually, everyone who has said that Archimedes death ray is 'foolish' or impossible can go suck eggs. Some MIT STUDENTS built one that apparently works remarkably well.

http://www.dailytech.com/MIT+Students+Develop+Revolutionary+Solar+Dish+That+is+Hot+Enough+to+Melt+Steel/article12153.htm

If MIT undergrads can build one, I'm pretty sure Archimedes' ancient genius probably had a battery of those things aimed at the horizon.

Look, people still don't even know how the Egyptians carved their blocks, no one knows why or how Stonehenge was built (not for sure anyway), and Machu Picchu has architecture that still baffles some of the world's greatest minds.

Not to mention the impossible task of the 'crystal skulls' featured in the new Indian Jones movie. Ok, that IS cheesy, but it doesn't change the fact that we can only prove our own folly by insisting that we can understand everything merely because it was in the past. MORE ADVANCED TECH DOESN'T MAKE PEOPLE SMARTER (in fact, history shows that it actually can easily go the other way).

The point is - to assume any of you know better than Archimedes with your so poignant and arrogant free-from-reprisal-cause-I'm-on-the-internet attitudes really just shows how dim-witted & shortsighted you most truly are.

Oh yeah, and go ahead and flame me 'cause I won't wast my time visiting any forum more than once.

I'm sure the Myth-o-Team will not have time to address this (since they did twice already, I think), but I just thought that all of you who said it was 'Busted' or 'impossible' are TOTALLY WRONG!!!! Physical evidence is the best kind of argument-stopper. I love it!

Oh yeah, and if you're worried that it's not powerful enough - or moving targets, blah, blah - the thing they built can MELT STEEL. So, it really wouldn't matter. Even if you just grazed a ship or anything else heavy, since anything big back then would have to be made of wood, it would combust quite easily - making the Archimedes Death Ray Mirror a fully operational, functional & efficient killing machine!

In The Face!!!

Thank you, thank you, ah . . . thank you. Please, hold your applause . . .

http://www.dailytech.com/MIT+Students+Develop+Revolutionary+Solar+Dish+That+is+Hot+Enough+to+Melt+Steel/article12153.htm

Here's a 'contemporary' example. Some MIT students built one that more than works. Proving you, and the Myth-o-Team totally wrong.

Hope you find solace in the fact that there's tons more for you to whine about.

Next time, don't be so foolhardy to point your stubby fingers. And stop waving them around after eating Cheetos - gross.

Yes, the MIT mirror will melt steel but it has a range shorter than you think. It uses a parabolic mirror and the focus probably cannot be adjusted much.

I suggested in another thread that they could set up an array using a pulley and cable system to aim it.

[quote]Here's a 'contemporary' example. Some MIT students built one that more than works. Proving you, and the Myth-o-Team totally wrong.[/quote]

Unfortunately, the mathematics, engineering and materials used here were not available a the time the myth is supposed to have occured.

Not to mention that this device is completely impractical as a weapon. It works at one single distance, and the target needs to be between the device and the sun - in other words, up in the air. It will not work in an off-axis situation, where focus rapidly degrades. And it's range is short - on the order of a few feet.

Please try to keep in mind the point of the exercise, which was to explore the myth. You seem to have lost sight of that fact, and are assuming that generating heat was the problem to be solved.

[quote]Unfortunately, the mathematics, engineering and materials used here were not available a the time the myth is supposed to have occured.[/quote]

The team from M.I.T. who built this latest version of a solar collector concentrated thier efforts in making the device simple and easy to set up.

The collector is made up of several strips of cuved mirror 10 inches by 12 feet and attached to the frame,"by using washers and zip ties."

Yes the mathematics, and engineering and the materials to make this device were indeed available in 211-214 b.c.e. ,(of course, the mirrors are polished bronze and the frame would be something other tham aluminium).

Archimedes studied and wrote treatise on every aspect of mathematics and optics that were needed to design this weapon.
He corresponded regularly with many leading minds in this and other fields of study. Amoung them, Conon and Apollonitis of Alexandria. Whose vast and, even then, ancient libraries contents were lost to fire and pillaging.

After Archimedes murder in Syracuse, Apollonitis continued on with the subjects both he and Archimedes studied together, one treatise by Apollonitis is titled,"On the Burning Mirror", which showed how rays of light were focused together not by a spherical reflector,(as many had previously thought), but rather with a parabolic shaped reflector.

There is much more to Archimedes and his contemporaries advances in the sciences. Too much to cover in one post.


[quote]this device is completely impractical as a weapon. It works at one single distance,[/quote]

Right, the solar collector from MIT is impracticle as a weapon.

The alleged Archimedes Device could have been built on a larger scale and the mirrors set at a focal point which would be inside a pre-arranged zone of defensive fire.

The Roman ladder ships moored at the base of the city walls had to stay put in order to deliver the Roman assault troops. These and the Roman arty barges would have been excellent stationary targets for the proposed device.

[quote]up in the air[/quote]

It's been proven already that a focused sunlight can be directed at a target on the surface. By several sources, including the Mythbusters.

The Archimedes death ray could have been made with an adjustable focus; a rope and pulley system could have been used to adjust the direction and tilt of the mirrors.
I have been told the mirrors of that time period were not very good. They could have used olive oil to make the mirrors more reflective.

Why not aim the mirror at the occupants of the ship and not the ship itself .I think it would be more useful to disrupt and confuse , then attack with a more conventional weapon .In my humble opinion fire is to much to ask for from a bronze mirror, moving target or no .