[quote]When someone learns the words and phrases of Theorical Physics, but wouldn't know Applied Physics if it jumped up and bit them on the cheek (you pick which one), they make vague arguments just to see themself in print.
They remind me of politictions that make great sounding promises that mean nothing.[/quote]

Both are equally important, and thus both requires attention.

MtyhSearcher,

I've been following the course of your explanations carefully and it struck my that you might be the kind of guy interested in owning a unique item. Have you ever seriously considered getting into the Magick Bean market? There has recently been a major price move for my Magick Beans and there remains the potential for unlimited upside. Commodity trading in Magick Beans does entail risk, but if you have the kind of faith that can curve bullets, I'm sure that moving the Magic Bean commodity markets would be no sweat.

Call me. We'll do lunch.

[quote]I've been following the course of your explanations carefully and it struck my that you might be the kind of guy interested in owning a unique item. Have you ever seriously considered getting into the Magick Bean market? There has recently been a major price move for my Magick Beans and there remains the potential for unlimited upside. Commodity trading in Magick Beans does entail risk, but if you have the kind of faith that can curve bullets, I'm sure that moving the Magic Bean commodity markets would be no sweat.[/quote]

1) I have no idea what a magic bean is.
2) If you truely read my explanations carefully, you will know that I have no faith in curving a bullet, at least not the faith that it could be done by human wielded handgun.

A magic bean is a seed that, when planted, sprouts a giant bean stalk that reaches to a massive castle nestled among the clouds that contains not only a man-eating giant, but also a goose that lays golden eggs.

[quote]2) If you truely read my explanations carefully, you will know that I have no faith in curving a bullet, at least not the faith that it could be done by human wielded handgun.[/quote]


Which means that you do have faith in it and will continue to argue relentlessly against well established principles. If you had no faith in it then you would soon come to the conclusion that it's physically impossible to do in any manner shown in the movie, using people or machines.

[quote]Which means that you do have faith in it and will continue to argue relentlessly against well established principles. If you had no faith in it then you would soon come to the conclusion that it's physically impossible to do in any manner shown in the movie, using people or machines.[/quote]

I did not say it will be like the manner as shown in the movie, I specifically stated that it will be different.
My replies have been very specific on that I am only talking about a curve that will appear in real life, not a curve like in the movies, in which technically the term "curve" does not limit itself to what the movie have shown.

Cheers, I am talking to a bunch of people who cannot understand simple English and thought that the word curved bullet only means what is shown in the movie and cannot get rid of the thought when someone else uses the term to talk about other possible ways.

I have not watch the movie, and only look at this in a scientific manner with the term directly.
You guys can argue about what the movie have shown and how impossible it is with those who think it is possible, I have no interest in that, since it is most likely beaten to death on the past 15 pages that I did not participate in and is definitely impossible, talking about it wastes my time.

I only care if the MB team is going to show it, how can they make it in the show that can make a literal "curved bullet". The verdict is no doubt a busted, but if they can make it curve in other possible ways, it would be half of what the show is about.

It actually is possible to curve a bullet at long distances with strong winds. If you figure a bullet it as long as your index finger and you have 45 mile an hour winds, how could the bullet not curve????

@ MythSearcher

All this thread is talking about is in the movie. No one here is saying it's impossible to curve bullets. We are saying it's impossible to do it like in the movie. We're not the only ones who cannot understand simple English, methinks.

[quote]It actually is possible to curve a bullet at long distances with strong winds. If you figure a bullet it as long as your index finger and you have 45 mile an hour winds, how could the bullet not curve????[/quote]


So... you missed the very first post???????

"...the issue at hand is weather or not a person can rotate their wrist while firing a gun and cause the bullet to curve horizontally. The answer is no..."

"There are, however, some other ways that would cause a bullet to curve horizontally after it is fired.

1 – Wind, of course."

I'm still lost at what MythSearcher is trying to say.

The first post seemed to refer to moving the barrel horizontally, faster than the muzzle velocity of the gun, and then mentioned the muzzle blast.

I took that to mean the blast was being viewed as acting partially on the side of the bullet. From what I can gather that is not what's meant.

But, if the muzzle blast is acting from behind, and not from the side, I don't get where the "curve in" part comes from, or where in fact "in" points. Wouldn't the force from the rear, just be a linear acceleration forwards? I don't get how this is supposed to induce a curve, in any direction. It just effects a change of linear velocity.

[quote]It actually is possible to curve a bullet at long distances with strong winds.[/quote]

Really? You don't say. I wonder how we missed that one. We'll look into it and get back to you. In the mean time, I suggest you at least read the first post of the thread before responding.

[quote]All this thread is talking about is in the movie. No one here is saying it's impossible to curve bullets. We are saying it's impossible to do it like in the movie. We're not the only ones who cannot understand simple English, methinks.[/quote]

Listen, I suggested ways for the MB team to do a literally curved bullet in their show, which is what the title of the forum said "Show idea"

And you would expect someone who did not watch the movie to come in, see a thread talking about a curved bullet and focus on the movie? You got to be pretty self centred to make that assumption. You should be happy that I actually go watch the trailer before I reply and say that it is not going to be what the movie showed.

[quote]I don't get where the "curve in" part comes from, or where in fact "in" points.[/quote]

Yeah, I asked MythSearcher to clarify what direction "in" is supposed to be and I honestly cannot understand what the response said. I'm not trying to be mean or rude, really. I just can't understand what this sentence means:

"The force is towards the forward direction, thus the curvature is going to use that as a centripetal force to give a curve line that points the bullet's trajectory back on the forward direction."

[quote]But, if the muzzle blast is acting from behind, and not from the side, I don't get where the "curve in" part comes from, or where in fact "in" points. Wouldn't the force from the rear, just be a linear acceleration forwards? I don't get how this is supposed to induce a curve, in any direction. It just effects a change of linear velocity.[/quote]

It might be that I am not clear on that, I view having the bullet curve away from the centre line(in which is the axis of the force of the gun explosives exerted on the bullet) as "out" and towards the centre line as "in"
This is assuming the shooter moved the gun from the centre aiming position towards the side with the gun barrel parallel.

The curvature is not going to actually go all the way to point the bullet back to the centre line, I am not suggesting that, to be clear and stop people from reading between lines.

My first post is of two parts, since those are the ways that would give the bullet a curved path I can think of.
The first part is about air resistance, and the second being the effect of the muzzle blast.

In which I do not claim that I did a lot of calculation on the effect of the air resistance and such, but from simple logic where air resistance varies with speed, it should become a dominating force on the trajectory if the speed of the bullet is fast enough.

And by simple Physics, it would be easily calculated that if neglecting air resistance at slow horizontal speeds (it does not matter if air resistance is included, it is slowing down the bullet on that direction anyway)
the acceleration in the forward axis is going to make the bullet's trajectory curve towards the forward direction.
So presto, you get an acceleration in the Y direction and no acceleration(or deceleration) in the X direction, which makes a trajectory curve, and the curvature is towards the Y direction.

[quote]Yeah, I asked MythSearcher to clarify what direction "in" is supposed to be and I honestly cannot understand what the response said. I'm not trying to be mean or rude, really. I just can't understand what this sentence means:[/quote]

I admit that I suck at talking about curves with just words and it seem to me that I cannot attach a picture here.

Say, if the bullet leaves the barrel with a forward(y axis) velocity of 300m/s, and a horizontal velocity of 10m/s, the muzzle blast would increase the y axis velocity to 320m/s for the entire duration of the blast, but the horizontal velocity remains unchanged. If you plot a graph of these two velocities, it is easy to see that the combined velocity at the initial state is different from the final state, and the slope at the initial state is a 30:1, at the final state it is 32:1.
I don't know what other people call it, but I would call that increasing of slope a curve.

After leaving the barrel, the horizontal motion of the gun does not affect the bullet, it only keep the gun behind the bullet for the muzzle blast to act on the bullet.(which would not be too hard as long as the gun continues at the same velocity, it catches up with the bullet's horizontal inertial)

@ MythSearcher

I never said that the FORUM is about the movie; only this particular thread. If you want to debate curving bullets by any means outside of what was shown in the movie, that's fine. Feel free to start a thread about it. However, this particular thread is focused on people asking: "Can you really curve a bullet like they do in THE MOVIE 'WANTED'."

Nothing self centered about it. It's simply a matter of targeting a specific question.

[quote]However, this particular thread is focused on people asking: "Can you really curve a bullet like they do in THE MOVIE 'WANTED'."[/quote]

The title of the thread is "curving bullets are like leprechauns"

I see nothing about focusing on the movie.
The first post's got the words:

[quote]There are, however, some other ways that would cause a bullet to curve horizontally after it is fired.[/quote]

And from what I scan through, no body talks about the muzzle blast and I guess I missed out the air resistance discussion.
Thus I wanted to remind people about it.
It would seem to be a super bad idea to start a new post with the heat of the movie AND a very bad practice to start a thread that talks about related things when there is already a post focusing on it. At least in where I moderate posts on other forums, I will delete such posts without mercy.

Ok, that's still as clear as mud. "Out" is away from the "centerline" which is the direction of travel. In is towards this center line. Why is the bullet off this line to start with? How does a moving object of any kind, "curve" towards its direction of travel? Isn't it on its direction of travel by definition?

[quote]Ok, that's still as clear as mud. "Out" is away from the "centerline" which is the direction of travel. In is towards this center line. Why is the bullet off this line to start with? How does a moving object of any kind, "curve" towards its direction of travel? Isn't it on its direction of travel by definition?[/quote]

I replied another post, which is waiting for the mod to read through since I might have used a sensitive word stating my ability to describe a curve is not good.(The only word that I am aware of is sensitive starts with a s and ends with a k.)

With the y axis as forward and x axis as horizontal, assuming the bullet travels 300m/s in the y direction and 10m/s in the x direction, muzzle speed as initial state of the bullet, after the duration of the muzzle blast, the bullet now travels at 320m/s in the y direction and 10m/s at the x direction.

The slope of the line changes from 30:1 to 32:1(neglecting air resistance and the decrease in pressure difference of the muzzle blast and assume a constant acceleration, it would be a nice parabolic line)

I used the word "in" as compare to a curve pointing the bullet away from the y axis.

I should not have used "forward" since it is confusing, but someone pointed out "vertical" is not the right word either and I use forward to describe the direction the gun is pointing at.


Aside from the discussion,
piece of advice, it seem to me that a lot of people here thinks that any post stating a curve is "pro-curve", like the guy being told off at the first few pages who just want it to be shown on MB.
This is my concern as well, it really doesn't matter if the myth is busted or not. The MB has busted a lot of myths that are pretty obviously busted if you do simple Physics calculations with it. Yet they still show it on TV just because it looks cool and is interesting.
I spent half of my internet life teaching people Physics, military science and spacecraft designs and is only here hoping to help the MB to keep up their great show, wanting them to show something that could be proven wrong by simple Science does not necessarily mean any support to the ridiculous myths. I had been dealing with numbers and logics all my life, and simply wanted to see the MB do it by another way.

[quote]With the y axis as forward and x axis as horizontal, assuming the bullet travels 300m/s in the y direction and 10m/s in the x direction, muzzle speed as initial state of the bullet, after the duration of the muzzle blast, the bullet now travels at 320m/s in the y direction and 10m/s at the x direction.[/quote]


Still no.

The blast from the muzzle will act along the bullet's line of flight, not the direction the muzzle was pointed... it will be a linear acceleration.