snarf,

To be charitable, I'm going to assume you have somehow mixed up tracer and incendiary rounds - not that either is ignited by the heat of flying through the air.

Google "TM 43-0001-27 TECHNICAL MANUAL ARMY AMMUNITION DATA SHEETS SMALL CALIBER AMMUNITION " (Master Sergeant's earlier excellent link uses many of the same diagrams, BTW.) When you find the .pdf file, take a close look. There are many cut-away diagrams showing how rounds are constructed, and they are very clear as to how the tracer incendiary composition is built into the rear of the bullet. This is true for 5.56mm up to the 25mm rounds. Perhaps you did not see the tracer's incendiary material becuase it is sealed by a closure disk? If that's the case, and you did not realize what you were handling, perhaps it would be a good time to review your safety procedures?

Now with incendiary bullets, of course the jacket is stuffed with a different incendiary compound. For armor piercing incendiary (API) rounds, the incendiary compound is packed at the very tip of the bullet, wedged between the core/penetrator and the jacket nose. When the round hits and the jacket is fragmented, the incendiary compound ignites. Some folks mistakenly believe that the resulting fire is a result of suprheating the bullet from air friction in flight, which of course, we all know to be silly. Well, except MB's silly EOD tech, perhaps.

Now, we (the US) don't use incendiary rounds for the 5.56mm and 7.62mm rounds, but we do for the .50, 20mm and 35mm. This coupled with your earlier comment . . .

quote:

I was refering to my ammo. I guess the lower caliber doesn't have it in the nose like all mine.

. . . makes it quite apparent that you are indeed confusing incendiary rounds with tracer rounds. Confusion which will eventually lead to a serious accident at your reloading bench.

Might I suggest you review the TM I mentioned, as well as a good reference book on nose-tip color markings to prevent mishandling tracer/incendiary rounds?

quote:

I've got pictures of my rounds, would like to post them but ....

Love to see them.

Simple, go to a photo sharing site like Photobucket, post them there, and come back and post the link to them.

quote:

If you read my earlier posts I in fact posted the links.

Do try and read the posts.

I went back over your posts, and can't find one link that you posted.

Try again.

quote:

.30 M1-Gerand

Lots of experience with firearms, and you don't know how to spell "Garand?"

quote:

I also never said that they did not have them in the base .... If you read my earlier posts I in fact posted the links.

You have not posted one link that backs your claims. I have never seen a .30 cal with the tracer anywhere other than the rear of the bullet.

You sir are full of it, and everyone here knows it. You do not have to own up to your BSing, you only need to drop it and move on.

http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/rifle/30_ammo.html

Cartridge, Caliber .30, Tracer, M1
Look at the figure. Note where tracer and igniter composition is.

Same with tracer M25.

Now as someone already said. API has the incendiary composition in the nose. But that is not a tracer.

http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/tt117/TheSnarfster/

The link. One. I'll get the other shortly.

And thanks for the info.

TTYL

Umm. The picture is nothing but white and the following.

"Removed as per request"

quote:

Sorry, I was asked to remove it. Let's just say, we're not really supposed to have that kind of ammo.

Umm. No. Ya see when you ask to have something removed from photobucket they simply remove it. It does not show up like that on your page. It just vanishes, and any direct links have this.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q278/NonTypical2004/truck.jpg

You are full of it, and now you are intentionally lying to try and cover yourself.

quote:

You are full of it, and now you are intentionally lying to try and cover yourself.

I agree.

Photobucket had no problem with posting this photo earlier today:


http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z222/rick4070/100_0558.jpg

They don't know what kind of bullets are loaded into those casings,they COULD be Tracer, AP, Spire Point, Cast, or machined out of Unobtanium.

And, I doubt they care.

What is funny, is when you take this troll to task 'ol Snarf reports the decenting opinion so that it makes it look as if it was never there.

But it's obvious enough that he's still made to look like a fool.

If the moderators would kindly remove his posts that make a mockery of the forums it would go a long way towards restoring the integrity of the thread.

There is NOTHING he contributes towards the educational purposes of these discussions. He fabricates nonsense and to put it simply, IS A TROLL.

Since the moderators have a long history of poor moderation of the forums it comes as no surprise that this is how you'd handle things, with as little effort as possible. He joins on 02-03-09 and promptly destroys a thread with a bunch of nonsense that members are forced to correct and essentially self moderate.

Moderators, long winded posts quoting specifically what the problem was with Snarfster are neccesary if he's gonna learn how to not screw up a thread.

I'm pretty sure snarfster is breaking the terms of service he agreed to when he signed up.

I know it says something about posting knowingly false and innaccurate material.

quote:

And, I doubt they care.

The only thing photobucket cares about is that there is no nudity or child exploitation on the site.

My good man Hillarity. I hope your plea is heard, but we all know that at best they will do nothing, and at worse they will give you a temp ban until you email Ivy and ask for your privileges back. I have found that it is simply better to make the idiot look like an idiot.

I don't even report posts anymore unless they are blatantly dangerous or illegal.

quote:

Originally posted by violent_storm2000:
until you email Ivy and ask for your privileges back.

Now why would I go and do that? These forums, and the way they have been run, has left me laughing hysterically since years ago when uglygun took up the cause of battling the wittless.

Took what, 2 years for the forum to get the tacked threads on often posted myth/discussions such as this one? Heck, who was it that actively suggested doing such things inorder to try to minimize the futile multiple posting of topics and suggesting to implement some form of true organization to the site?

These boards need to just be shut down or permanently locked. It's mostly all been discussed in every possible contortion and evolution of what could be considered original or creative thought. It's done, it's played out, and ModIvy evidently is in control of every segment of the entire Discovery/Eve forums which almost adds insult to injury.

When Sgt Normandy, a patient man with a true enthusiast and passionate side decided to haul out of here as quick as his backspace button could take him, it said tons about the state of this forum.

He's on 2-3 other firearm related forums and he drops in on those forums from time to time. I still talk with him from time to time through both those forums and through email.


Atleast when a Carlos Hathcock myth or discussion about the bullet through scope forum pops up on a firearms forum, it is handled with the right maturity, terminology, and blatant nonsense posted by trolls is not tolerated.


The Box-o-Truth does more to help actually experiment and educate people on shooting topics and issues than the mythbusters can do now. Certainly more than this forum has helped benefit anyone in recent times.

Unfortunately, those that run this forum are not interested in educating anyone. They see these boards as a way for the fan to feel as if they are part of the show. They believe that their ratings are coming from those that pop in here once or twice and post an idiotic idea, then never return, they believe that any traffic here is good traffic.

I do agree with you. But we both know they really do not care about these boards just as long as the numbers keep coming.

So what do we do? We beat down the idiots while keeping within the rules so we can continue our little community.

Simple, go to a photo sharing site like Photobucket, post them there, and come back and post the link to them.

I went back over your posts, and can't find one link that you posted.

Try again.

quote:

.30 M1-Gerand

Lots of experience with firearms, and you don't know how to spell "Garand?"[/QUOTE]

For benifit to all, the pictures were removed by request of my RO. They showed 30.06 FMJ, Sabot, Brass tipped and tracer.

I believe this is enough as we are getting far off topic of the original .50 rounds. I have no problem with what you gentlemen think and point out. I know my rounds work fine (The few I have left) and all work, even the tracer.

So, I appreciate your comments and now let's move on.

Many thanks

TTYL

quote:

For benifit to all, the pictures were removed by request of my RO. They showed 30.06 FMJ, Sabot, Brass tipped and tracer.

Um. No. If it were removed it would simply be gone and any links to the actual picture would have what was seen when I uploaded a picture, posted a link then removed it.

Yes I agree we should get back to topic, but I also believe that you should stop trying to BS you way through it.

Kind of funny that some of snarfsters posts have been removed, like where he says:

quote:

I've got pictures of my rounds, would like to post them but ....

And:

quote:

If you read my earlier posts I in fact posted the links.

quote:

Do try and read the posts.

Where did those posts go?

Because I can't find them on this thread anymore.


snarfster, you had little credibility to begin with, and now by getting your posts removed to cover your butt, you have lost any and all credibility here.

You might be able to B.S. people in other places, but we have members here who have been there and done that, and know how you are making yourself look the fool.

Um. No. If it were removed it would simply be gone and any links to the actual picture would have what was seen when I uploaded a picture, posted a link then removed it.

Yes I agree we should get back to topic, but I also believe that you should stop trying to BS you way through it.[/QUOTE]

That's your prerogative. Again I was asked to remove them. I don't have to prove it to myself. The rounds I have work fine, all four types. I have the skill to make all my own rounds and experiment with them. I am by no means an expert on the development of rounds, but I would say I have far more skill in building rounds than the average joe.

That is the last of it. Again, I have an open mind and do agree that most rounds have the tracer in the back. I just happen to have some with the tracer compound in the front.

Anyway, take care and remember, not everyone's word if gospel. (No need to rebut that).

TTYL

Just because Photobucvket supposedly removed them doesn't mean there aren't other sites you can post them to and provide a link.

quote:

Again I was asked to remove them.

If you had removed it, or asked photobucket to remove it, then it would simply be gone, there would not be a fake picture saying it was deleted.

quote:

The rounds I have work fine, all four types. I have the skill to make all my own rounds and experiment with them.

Please, clarify that statement.

Are you claiming that you are making homemade tracers, and that they have the compound in the nose??

quote:

I would say I have far more skill in building rounds than the average joe.

Maybe the average Joe, but you will find some of the folks here have a lot of experience too, from casting to swaging, up to and including CNC turning bullets on a lathe.

Don't think that you are special in regards to bullet manufacture, because you aren't.

And, like others have said, your refusal to post some photos, is just an excuse.

My link on photobucket is still there, they haven't asked me to remove it:

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z222/rick4070/100_0558.jpg

Look at the bullet in the .505 Gibbs cartridge on the right.

I made that one on the lathe.

Now, I COULD claim that it was a tracer, loaded with an explosive, made out of a super alloy or something else, and photobucket could care less.

But, it isn't, it is turned from a brass alloy, one of MY "experimental" bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by TheSnarfster:
I just happen to have some with the tracer compound in the front.

No. Nope. Not gonna just let this lie there.

I want to know who made these front-burning tracer rounds, what's their model, make or whatever. And I want to see a maufacturer's cut-away diagram of how they're made (a dumbed-down advertising slick will do fine). I want to know how you got them and from where. And I want to know what caliber they come in.

Otherwise, we're just talking mythical creatures here.

And not a single person on this board is going to believe you manufactured your own front-end tracers, so don't even try to go there.

And while you're trying to fabricate answers to those questions, consider this: what possible reason would there be for a front burning tracer, except to ruin the ballistics of the projectile? Or did you even think what the continuing discharge of gasses from the nose area of the bullet would do?