Mythbusters

 
    Forums    MythBusters    Submit a Myth: Military/Weapons    ATF claims that Airsoft toy guns can be "easily converted to machine guns"
Page 1 2 3 
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
ATF claims that Airsoft toy guns can be "easily converted to machine guns"
 Login/Join 
Junior Member
Registered: 02-27-10
Posted   Reply With QuoteReport This Post  
http://www.koinlocal6.com/cont...CAUuZWeRrqgIQaA.cspx

CORNELIUS, Ore. - A local business owner is flabbergasted after a shipment of 30 toy guns for his store was confiscated by ATF agents in Tacoma.

Brad Martin and his son, Ben, sell the Airsoft BB guns from their store in Cornelius where they’ve been in business for seven years.

The Martins said they buy their stock from Taiwan because the merchandise is less expensive. But the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives seized a shipment of 30 in October. That shipment is worth around $12,000 and the ATF is promising to destroy the entire shipment.

Special Agent Kelvin Crenshaw said the toys can be easily retro-fitted into dangerous weapons.

"With minimal work it could be converted to a machine gun," Crenshaw said.

Brad Martin is furious about the loss of money, for sure, but also in what he now thinks as a loss of his time and the use of government agents to seize toy guns.

"All this manpower, all this time, all this taxpayer money, [it is] wasting my time and my profitability,” Martin said. “[Just] to seize 30 toy guns!"

Ben Martin disagrees that the toy guns could ever be considered dangerous.

"To say these are readily convertible to machine guns is absolutely preposterous,” he said. “The round wouldn't go into the firing chamber and even if the firing pin did strike the primer the gun would basically blow up in your face.”

ATF said it also seized the toys because they are missing the blaze orange tips required on all imported toy guns.

The Martins said they've received shipments before from Taiwan that were missing the orange tips and were simply asked by customs agents to drive up to Tacoma and paint the tips orange themselves. They are wondering why it is an issue now.
-end of story

My question is, Can The Mythbusters Do It?
Senior Member
Registered: 07-22-06
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
Well that is about the dumbest thing I have heard today. But it is not surprising to hear from those idiots at the BATFE.
Senior Member
Registered: 12-10-09
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
I'd hate to say it, but it's hardly surprising given the paranoia in that particular sector of the government.
Senior Member
Registered: 02-18-09
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
What is and is not required to have an orange tip?

The seized rifles look pretty dang real...now I want one.

Machine guns seized at Tacoma port

Sounds like the poor guy has had run ins with the government before.

Airsoft Outlet NW
Senior Member
Registered: 07-24-07
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
You cannot "retrofit" and airsoft gun to become a real gun. That ATF agent is an idiot and should be told so by his bosses, lest he embarrass them even more.

You CAN seize imported airsoft guns if they fail to meet import laws: must have an orange muzzle to show that it is not real and have all logos and trademarks removed.
Senior Member
Registered: 02-08-10
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
quote:
"With minimal work it could be converted to a machine gun," Crenshaw said.


[q sarcasm] So plastic bb guns are now illegal to own? Should I start burying squirt guns?[end sarcasm]

I have a hard time believing the machine gun excuse. I wonder if they're just too embarrassed to admit they made a mistake, or if something else is going on. Does the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives have the right to confiscate and keep toys that look like firearms?
Senior Member
Registered: 07-24-07
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
quote:
Originally posted by spectre_john:
quote:
"With minimal work it could be converted to a machine gun," Crenshaw said.


[q sarcasm] So plastic bb guns are now illegal to own? Should I start burying squirt guns?[end sarcasm]

I have a hard time believing the machine gun excuse. I wonder if they're just too embarrassed to admit they made a mistake, or if something else is going on. Does the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives have the right to confiscate and keep toys that look like firearms?


They can if they do not meet import laws...but that is usually Customs's job.
Senior Member
Registered: 09-28-08
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
GBB conversion to real gun is too complicated
that you are better off buying a real gun.

No orange tip is the most probable shipment problem.

On a side note, I think customs may have to check each toy because the GBB or AEG look so real.

Who knows if someone will try to smuggle real guns with the AEG's or GBB's?

Or try to import Airsoft accessories and mix some real ones with the shipment to avoid paying taxes.
Senior Member
Registered: 07-24-07
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
quote:
Originally posted by Paul See:
GBB conversion to real gun is too complicated
that you are better off buying a real gun.

No orange tip is the most probable shipment problem.

On a side note, I think customs may have to check each toy because the GBB or AEG look so real.

Who knows if someone will try to smuggle real guns with the AEG's or GBB's?

Or try to import Airsoft accessories and mix some real ones with the shipment to avoid paying taxes.


It is next to impossible to convert ANY airsoft gun into a real one. Which is why they are legal in places like Japan, where firearms are not legal to own. That idiot of an ATF agent is making idiotic statements...which is sad considering you would expect an Alcohol/Tobacco/FIREARMS agent to know at least a little something about firearms.

Your other points are valid...but those are Customs concerns not ATF. If I were the Customs agents, I'd be more than a little peeved that the ATF was stepping on my toes on my turf when they had no business being there.
Senior Member
Registered: 12-25-09
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
Retrofitting an airsoftgun to become a machine gun?.. That's like retrofitting a cow to become an elephant..

Big Grin Now, this ATF agent must have been smoking something illegal before he went to work that day...
Junior Member
Registered: 02-19-10
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
certain arisoft sniper rifles were banned in japan becuase they were converted to .22 and used in shootings although i doubt you could make a machine gun
Senior Member
Registered: 07-22-06
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
quote:
certain arisoft sniper rifles were banned in japan becuase they were converted to .22 and used in shootings although i doubt you could make a machine gun

Link please.

Yes you can convert some Airsoft guns to .22. However the steel used in airsoft is so weak that it can not deal with the pressures and will destroy the gun out right. This is a non problem.

The only recent shootings that happened in Japan are associated with the Japanese Mafia. They have enough money and resources to import real guns.
Senior Member
Registered: 08-27-08
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
They weren't converting airsoft guns to fire real ammo as much as they were converting "model guns," which are fully functional blank-firing replicas (that are more expensive than airsoft guns) that use replica cartridges of the same size and shape as the actual weapon's ammunition.
Senior Member
Registered: 11-22-07
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
quote:
That idiot of an ATF agent is making idiotic statements...which is sad considering you would expect an Alcohol/Tobacco/FIREARMS agent to know at least a little something about firearms.


He could just specialize in alcohol and tobacco, and normally have nothing to do with firearms and explosives. Big Grin
Senior Member
Registered: 07-22-06
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
Possible. But it requires machining. But they still have issues with failing because the steel is not rated to deal with the pressures from normal ammo.

Another instance of a government punishing the many because of the actions of a few.
Senior Member
Registered: 08-27-08
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
Not possible. They're 80% plastic, and even the ones that have been converted to full metal construction share zero internal designs with real guns.

You're better off making a gun yourself out of metal... using a purpose-built design.

Turning an airsoft gun into a fully-functional version of the gun it's based on is like trying to turn a see-through plastic model engine into a running V8. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

In fact, the best you could do with an airsoft gun is to completely gut the body and install a single-shot .22 gun. But what the hell is the point of that? If you don't have access to a real firearm, and you have the tools and knowhow to build one, you should make something that actually functions and DOESN'T look like a firearm. You'd be better off with a pen gun.
Senior Member
Registered: 07-27-06
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
These are not your ordinary toys. They are actual M4 lower receivers and are regulate by the ATF to prevent modification.

The issue is that once you have a lower receiver that a person can purchase a regular upper receiver and have a fully functioning rifle.
Senior Member
Registered: 07-24-07
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
quote:
Originally posted by mnmthbusterfan:
These are not your ordinary toys. They are actual M4 lower receivers and are regulate by the ATF to prevent modification.

The issue is that once you have a lower receiver that a person can purchase a regular upper receiver and have a fully functioning rifle.


Uhm...NO. Airsoft M4's, both AEG and GBB are NOT "actual" lower recievers. The lower reciever of an AR-15 is actually considered the firearm and can only be sold by a FFL holder. Airsoft M4 lowers CANNOT, I say again, CANNOT, be used to make a real gun. THAT is a myth.
Senior Member
Registered: 07-27-06
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
Here is the link to the actual items seized.

Gas blowback rifle

Another review

Personally looking at the reviews and images this manufacture has been making their lower receivers too simular to the real thing and they may just be compatable.
Senior Member
Registered: 07-24-07
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post  
quote:
Originally posted by mnmthbusterfan:
Here is the link to the actual items seized.

Gas blowback rifle

Another review

Personally looking at the reviews and images this manufacture has been making their lower receivers too simular to the real thing and they may just be compatable.


Just because they "look" like the real thing does not mean they are. They are not made of the same materials as the real steel. They are not made to the same tolerances, and quite frankly I have NEVER heard of being able to mate a GBB lower with a real upper. NEVER. The dimensions are off.
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3  
 

    Forums    MythBusters    Submit a Myth: Military/Weapons    ATF claims that Airsoft toy guns can be "easily converted to machine guns"

 
advertisement
 

our sites

video

 

mobile

shop

stay connected

corporate