I'll not ask about permit status then. Not trolling, just an enthusiast. Have a good one.

quote:

If you want to compare Rifles vs. Rifle...same rules apply. The 5.56 is a relatively weak round, compared to 30.06, 7.63mm, 30 cal, etc.

Weak in terms of energy, sure. But that does not mean it is less effective on the target.

5.56 M193

5.56 M855

7.62x39

7.62x51

Agree....we had this conversation yesterday...I think that it also depends what the target is...

Man, squirrel, Rhino

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I think that it also depends what the target is...

Agreed, but when talking weapons of war, you are obviously talking about humans. So bringing big game into the conversation is pointless.

Youre right...I used those as examples...earlier...when we strictly discussing firepower...vs...effectiveness.

Dead is dead. But a 50 Cal...is more effective at getting you "deader"....than any variation of a .22.

quote:

Originally posted by XcontrolD:
Youre right...I used those as examples...earlier...when we strictly discussing firepower...vs...effectiveness.

Firepower = how many rounds you can put downrange over a given amount of time. It is NOT the same as stopping power. By definition, a 9mm M9 has 2x the firepower (15+1) as the older .45 M1911A1 (7+1).

quote:

Firepower = how many rounds you can put downrange over a given amount of time. It is NOT the same as stopping power. By definition, a 9mm M9 has 2x the firepower (15+1) as the older .45 M1911A1 (7+1).

Very good point. Even stopping power is a misnomer, depending on what definition you use.

Ok...I guess I made a mistake buying that Kimber Compact 45. I should have went with the Glock.

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Ok...I guess I made a mistake buying that Kimber Compact 45. I should have went with the Glock. Smile

Pistol is a completely different animal brother. Nothing wrong with Kimber, and nothing wrong with .45 Now if you intend on engaging numerous targets with a pistol, something has seriously gone bad.

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Originally posted by typical_is_back_again:

quote:

Ok...I guess I made a mistake buying that Kimber Compact 45. I should have went with the Glock. Smile

Pistol is a completely different animal brother. Nothing wrong with Kimber, and nothing wrong with .45 Now if you intend on engaging numerous targets with a pistol, something has seriously gone bad.

Which is why I kept my M16 when they offered me an M9 halfway through my time in Iraq. If I, as a NURSE, have to start shooting things (beyond maybe a prisoner who somehow got loose in the hospital), something has gone REALLY, SERIOUSLY bad....

As a medical person and with a hefty background in physics. I say no. First of all, to kill a man (or deer) a trans-thoracic shot in any caliber is the deadliest. (Across the chest left to right). I have seen first hand MANY .22 calibers removed from various parts of the body. As many as 7. I have seen head shots that bounced around creating an invalid, but yet survived.
The most DEADLY round is same for deer a 30.06 as it or greater leaves a massive wound channel.
But, and rifle would prove hard to live through.
Pistols usually (in the U.S. with our EMS system) Have only a 30% or so fatality. Better odds than cancer. So, What is the deadliest pistol round? THE HIGHEST POWER THAT YOU CAN AFFORD TO PRACTICE WITH A LOT. A well placed shot by a .380 or 38 will be fatal by a woman who has 10,000 rounds under her belt. Or you can pull a 44 and miss 6 times. If you are not recoil shy, and are experienced, in 17 years in the medical profession I have witnessed many, many .22 and 9mm survive and recover. seldom a .38 and NEVER a .357 or 44 or even a .45.
Although .45 is low energy, holes in the body over 1/2 inch do not clot well with a .45 hollow point leaving a 3/4 to .8 inch hole they usually bleed to death with a mediocre chest wound.
my personal favorites are .45 ACP or .44 mag No less than 38/357 If your target HAS to be dead.
Shotguns on the other hand I have only had a few survive and they were in terrible shape. At close range you dont stand a chance but even 20' can really help with an untrained hand. Best bet in self defense against a man is:
1). Largest Caliber You Can Handle With Out Recoil Flinch
2). Largest Caliber You Can Afford To Put 2-3000 Rounds Down Range
3).Practice On Human Sillouettes 2 to the chest in rapid succession at real distances 10-20' with a thoughtfully final to the head. practice this until it bocomes a three shot burst.

Every time someone comes on here claiming to be a medical expert with one post, I instantly doubt everything they say. And every person like that talks almost exactly the same.

I believe it when armynurse or lord or formermarine say that they are current/former military, or police, or what have you, because they are able to talk like professionals and they have the appropriate knowledge to back it up. Knowledge that comes from experience rather than just parroting on about things they heard in movies or someone told them or just something that they heard god knows where that sounds WICKED SWEET.

So, statements like "You need a .357 magnum or .45 ACP to kill someone" just sound like BS. You are either not in any way a medical "person" or an ill-trained and unobservant one. I have never heard of any self-respecting self-defense instructor teaching Mozambique drills. I have a suspicion that the whole "two in the chest one in the head" thing is either a pop culture creation or an outdated CQB technique. If you're going to go to all that trouble, why not just put all 3 in the head to begin with. Presumably you have that ability, otherwise you would not make a reliable shot to the head part of your routine. If the final shot is even deemed necessary (which it apparently is in this drill), I don't know why you would waste time with the first two shots to the chest to begin with. Just my speculation.

Just for clarification, the .38 special is not a particularly potent round, usually less so than the 9mm luger. The .45 ACP is not necessarily more lethal than the 9mm. Frankly a hole that is very slightly bigger is not enough to be the difference between "likely to survive" and "certain death," on a widespread, general basis.

OK just as several posts have pointed out, it's neither the caliber nor the power of the bullet alone that kills, so there are other factors. If you are asking what particular bullet kills more people I can say that for the past 20 years I have served my community as a Paramedic and have seen more deaths as a result of .22 LR wounds. This does not mean that it is more deadly, but that more people are shot with them. I've seen everything from .177 cal pellet guns up thru 7.62x39 and 10guage wounds. Smaller caliber weapons are more concealable and are generally used in a case when someone is shot intentionally. Large cal. is generally seen in accidental shootings and tend to be less lethal due to placement of shots (arm, leg,hand,foot).

quote:

Originally posted by armynurseboi:
Firepower = how many rounds you can put downrange over a given amount of time. It is NOT the same as stopping power. By definition, a 9mm M9 has 2x the firepower (15+1) as the older .45 M1911A1 (7+1).

Unless you have a Paraordnance P-14.
(14+1)

(errr...and any high-cap mags for it)

quote:

Originally posted by Weya:

quote:

Originally posted by armynurseboi:
Firepower = how many rounds you can put downrange over a given amount of time. It is NOT the same as stopping power. By definition, a 9mm M9 has 2x the firepower (15+1) as the older .45 M1911A1 (7+1).

Unless you have a Paraordnance P-14.
(14+1)

(errr...and any high-cap mags for it)

True, but the P-14 is too big for my hands. If I go to a true .45ACP, I'll go with the compact Glock 30 SF model. It actually has a smaller backstrap on the grip and feels just like a Glock 23.

i do not it the most lethal because its low speed and low a mass which equles low kenetic energy although they are acruate and if you put a boolet right on the left side of the and enemies chest they are going down and the guns cheep and amunition is also to so thier is probly a lot of deaths cause by it

The .22 i think is the most dealy small calbier because it is small and very good around 50 yards.

You guys are for getting that .22 are very powerful and when you figure this you have to know the secnerio. That theythe most powerful depends on the type of bullet.

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You guys are for getting that .22 are very powerful

Compared to????