Lab Beav,

The downside is that they are *invited* to come here and post their idea. Not invited to come and see if someone has already posted the same idiocy 400 times before.

You click the "submit a myth" and then once you've said your piece, possibly have a look around at the rules and stickies.

The whole current setup seems to be designed to annoy both senior members *and* noobs (whether intentionally or not ). But, it seems to be the way Disco wants things done.

It's like opting for an inexpensive flyswatter rather than putting screens on the windows.

Disco won't spend anymore time and money on this slightly modified message board they got from the Eve people.
Seems like they'd rather try some more ad hoc solutions and let the,"Problem", fester some more.

[quote]The 'attitude' isn't an unprovoked attack on someone, it is a RESPONSE to an attack on intelligence, common sense, and adherence to the rules of the forum. [/quote]

Here here, well said.

Questions and discussions about things that are labeled as "Oogie Boogie" are segregated to the "Oogie Boogie Board" wherein the description at the top of the page, plainly says:

"Adam said "We're not going to do it" but that doesn't mean we can't talk about it! Loch Ness Monster, Mystery Spots, Extra-Terrestrials. You name it - Discuss the "Oogie Boogie" myths here!"

Members are INVITED by the forum heading to discuss things that WILL NOT be on the show and are regarding paranormal, crypto zoology and all other ideas or thoughts that are akin to the nature of these categories.

When the forum moderator creates a forum board where members are encouraged to discuss these items to keep them off of the major forum boards that are for myth ideas, then members, newbs and seniors alike, should be able to go to that board and discuss whatever they want to, be it Ouija boards, tarot cards, big foot, alien crop circles whatever.

It may seem stupid to you, but then again no one is forcing you to click on the Oogie Boogie board link. There are eight other forum boards to choose from.

The attitude from a few of the members here strongly points to the idea that they specifically go on the Oogie Boogie portion of the forums to take out their frustration on people for wanting to discuss something. Although, these members are posting in the proper forum and aren't hurting anyone.

To call one stupid, unintelligent, or to aggressively attack them because they are discussing something that you don't think is right or that you don't believe in is a violation of the TOS.

Now, healthy debate on the topic is fine. A lot of people disagree on this message board with each other and the majority can do it without being a jerk about it. Most will give their point of view and argue their point of view without slander or harmful remarks.

However, those who think it is stupid that "people get their feelings hurt" are usually the ones who are accessing the Oogie Boogie section specifically to hurt someone's feelings.

On this side of the topic, yes, board attitude needs to be checked and quickly. Otherwise, I can foresee more complaints going to Disco from people who have followed the rules stated at the top of the page and are still getting flamed by Senior Members.

Yep. The oogie-boogie board exists to discuss things like that and express opinions. Except that it seems that the true-believers don't really want their ideas and opinions discussed. They only want to hear from people who agree with them.

If I go on there and express MY opinion that it is patently irrational to believe in bigfoot, chi, ouija boards, and other such nonsense then I am attacked, told that I am being "mean," told that I should just go away, and reported to the moderator by someone who was hoping to FORCE me to stop expressing my opinion! (It didn't work!)

Hmmm. Let me double-check the rules... Nope. I don't see anything there that says ONLY people who believe in the oogie-boogie nonsense are allowed to post on the oogie-boogie forum.

Of COURSE it is wrong to call people names and deliberately try to hurt them! I mean, DUH!!! (That's why I never do that.) But expressing an opinion is not wrong. And it is not "mean" to say honestly that you think believing in crop circles or ouija boards is dumb, especially if you have already patiently and repeatedly explained why there is no rational reason for believing they are real.

This really kind of gets to what I was saying before. You patiently explain to someone why a PMM is impossible. They refuse to listen, though. They choose to remain ignorant on the subject. Then THEY are the ones who start complaining and whining, and trying to shut everyone else up, because they can't handle the fact that someone disagrees with them.

Up to now I have been pretty pleased with the way this board has been moderated. People who START with offensive and abusive posts are generally shut down pretty quickly. Good, that's as it should be. People who refuse to listen, learn, or even just THINK do not get their way when they try to shut down opposing opinions. Good, that's as it should be also.

I hope there will not be dramatic changes in the style of moderation here. If it gets to where you cannot finally, after trying and trying to explain, say to someone "Look, you are just wrong and if you can't deal with that then that's your problem!" then this will very quickly become a very boring place. God willing that day will not come.

No don, I reported you because you were attacking people with personal attacks on their intelligence. Of course reporting you didn't work because violating the TOS is only enforced on those who are not popular members.

There were a few people on that thread that werer discussing things in a civilized manner. You, however stood out as the person who showed up just to bash people over the head with slanders and aggressive remarks that added nothing to the debate whatsoever, but only furthered your ability to strike out at someone.

You were never attacked for your ideas or opinions, you were attacked when you started attacking others.

[quote]you were attacking people with personal attacks on their intelligence.[/quote]

I defy you to quote anything I have ever posted that is a personal attack. I do not do that.

My guess is that you don't understand what a personal attack is. Saying that it is stupid to believe in ouija boards is NOT a personal attack. It is a comment about the belief, not about the person. A personal attack would be if I said something like, "YOU are stupid for believing in ouija boards."

But I NEVER post things like that.

What's more, as you know perfectly well, my first few posts were patient and respectful, and only attempted to get people to exercise their brains a little bit and THINK about what ouija boards are. Only later, when it was clear that those still arguing had made the obvious and deliberate choice to believe in the oogie-boogie no matter what, did I allow myself to become a bit more condescending. Though even then it was mostly just telling the truth, that I find it pretty funny that anyone can be irrational enough to believe in such nonsense.

Is it "mean" of me to express that opinion? When you swallow the oogie-boogie you had better be prepared for the plain, inescapable fact that a whole lot of people are going to laugh at your beliefs.

So let me guess, you two went a round over on the Oogie board and now it's carried over to the Water Cooler. Just some friendly advice. Knock it off before the all-knowing, never-wrong, peace-loving, non-violent Mythmod comes in here and beats the tar out both of you with her modstick.

Some famous quotes:

"It is patently and completely irrational to believe that crop circles are made by anything other than some folks having a good laugh at the STUPIDITY of people who are willing to believe in oogie-boogie nonsense.[Emphasis Added]"

"If you choose to be irrational, don't blame me when I choose to laugh at the FOOLISHNESS of your choice!"

"Oh yeah, and the LUNATIC ravings of people who have made the irrational choice to believe that crop circles are created by little green men."

"The fact that I get a big laugh out of the irrational IDIOCY of believing that little green men come down to Earth and can't think of any better way to communicate with us than to doodle in corn fields?"

"No, I am not the least bit bitter. In truth I just think it is so hilariously funny that anyone would be DUMB enough to fall for the crop circle hoaxes that I feel compelled to comment. Really. Keep posting. Please. I enjoy the humor of it all."

-That's only the first 2 pages of the Crop Circles Thread.

Let's move on to something else, shall we?

"But far be it from me to provide the full measure of mocking that you have asked for. I will just enjoy the laugh that I've gotten already, and leave it to someone else to comment on the druid enchantment goofiness. "(here you attack my religion, which is always funny. But, because I'm not a christian or a jew, it doesn't matter?)

"Yes, sometimes I mock. People who believe in oogie-boogie nonsense deserve a certain amount of mocking."

Now, this is just a small sampling of the hundreds of mean-spirited attacks you've made on the intelligence of others and even defamed their religious beliefs. However, I'm prepared to make a full post out of your bullying if you'd like. I can just go through every one of your posts and find it. It's always there.

Funny part is that you do it mostly on the Oogie Boogie forum where you can bash someone and everyone just seems to accept the bashing.

No Greg. I tried to discuss Ouija boards and stand up for the OP and myself for believing in them and finally gave up his mocking attacks and put him on ignore.

Admittedly, I should have never read his post and I'm done reading them now.

I won't continue this. It won't get anywhere.

And not a single personal attack in the bunch. Like I said, I don't do that. I think people should be banned from the board for ad hominem attacks.

Again, saying an IDEA is stupid is not the same as saying a PERSON is stupid. The former is in the nature of this kind of forum. The latter is not acceptable in polite society. And if mythmod thinks I have crossed the line all she has to do is tell me and I absolutely guarantee that I will stop IMMEDIATELY!

But (back onto the topic of this thread) I don't see any reason why I shouldn't be able to express my opinion, and if it hurts the feelings of someone who is a bit oversensitive and doesn't like being told that what they believe in is nonsense, that's their problem, not mine.

Must be nice to selectively view things, don.

But in the first quote, you called people who are willing to believe in crop circles (two members who were debating it did) stupid.


In the second quote, you implied that one who makes the choice to believe is a fool.

In the third quote, you say that anyone who chooses to believe in crop circles (two more more members who debated it did) were lunatics.

The fourth quote, you implied that anyone who believes in crop circles is an idiot.

The fifth quote, you called anyone who believes in crop circles dumb.

The sixth quote, you bashed my religious beliefs and implied that I deserved to be mocked because I believe in my religion.

The seventh quote, you outright say that people that believe in anything on the Oogie Boogie board deserve to be mocked (thus confirming what I have already said--that you go there specifically to mock people).

I don't know what you were reading, but everyone of them was a personal attack, that you tried to word in a way as not to get in trouble for it.

[quote]Admittedly, I should have never read his post and I'm done reading them now.

I won't continue this.[/quote]


Well, that lasted either 27 minutes or 8 minutes, depending on how you do the accounting.

You're right. I'm sorry guys.

Wow I'm so glad that someone finally said something about this. Huge props to thetroll!!!!! No challange here for me! Being respectful is the most important thing that you can do to gain friendship and resecpt from others!

-GeekyGirl

denverd0n,

You know you can be abrasive. I don't have a problem with people voicing their opinions. A condescending attitude, however, is not welcome. Notice I did not use the word "your." That goes for everyone here.

Speaking of everyone else....

EVERYONE has a right to their opinion here, regardless if anyone else thinks it's wrong, stupid or petty. You must respect their right to voice their opinion here. Using words like 'stupid,' 'idiotic,' and other words of that nature do the user a disservice. There is room to agree to disagree.

Anyone has the right to walk away from a conversation here without being chided for not continuing to argue. It take a big man to admit he's wrong. It takes an even bigger man to allow someone else to continue to think they are right - regardless of the facts.

Sometimes you just have to swear at your monitor and just not type it out. I hate seeing good members end up modqueue'd because they could not hold their temper - or their fingers. Remember, I am not the only moderator on this board.

MythMod

[quote]The 'attitude' isn't an unprovoked attack on someone, it is a RESPONSE to an attack on intelligence, common sense, and adherence to the rules of the forum.[/quote]

Quite often, it is a response to insults hurled by the other side, often with seeming impunity.

"Too bad you're not able to think outside the box."

"Go ahead and keep thinking the earth is flat."

"Keep believing that, with the rest of the sheep."

Comments like this are often tossed out by those advocating an "alternative" position, and it is often just at the point where such statements are made that discourse heads south. Statements like these are direct, personal insults intended to demean and belittle the person they are directed at, every bit as much as calling someone "stupid" or "an idiot," and everyone recognizes them as such.

Yet comments like these are often allowed to stand, and it is only after several pages of escalation that some sort of action is taken such as locking a thread, or even posting a warning from moderators.

A more proactive approach to this sort of goading might help to tone things down. There are a few threads active at this moment which leap to mind as examples, where the older members have refrained from any sort of attack, keeping carefully to the topic and not the poster, only to be subjected to the sort of attacks mentioned above. It isn't surprising that they retaliate in kind, and take umbrage when seemingly little or nothing is done in response to the original taunts.

Mention also needs to be made of the few but extremely aberrant posters who deliberately provoke this sort of response, either as simple trolling and flamebaiting or, not uncommonly on moderated boards, with the express purpose of seeing how many people they can get banned. According to my teenage children, there are kids who engage in this sort of thing as a contest or sport of some kind, trying to see who can get the most members, or the most senior members, or whatever, yanked or chastised or otherwise punished by the board management. Although I find this sort of behavior troubling and nearly impossible to understand, it's out there. Again, the best offense in such cases is early intervention when apparent wheedling is taking place. This can be labor intensive; rather than simply responding to complaints on individual postings, it is often necessary to review a poster's history to see if there is such a pattern; since such posters tend to make a lot of posts, this can be a lot of work. On the plus side, this is typically a competition of sorts, and when word gets around that such behavior isn't tolerated on a given board, they quickly move on to greener, less moderated pastures, so it's beneficial in the long run.

Finally, I suspect that some of the more vocal complainants are also the most thin-skinned. Like it or not, being told you're wrong, or that you need to provide evidence in support of your claims, or even that the view you hold is illogical, irrational or silly is NOT a personal attack; it is an attack on the idea itself. I know that for some people, it is impossible to separate themselves from their beliefs, but accepting this sort of view means that no criticism of any kind is allowable because someone might get their feelings hurt. In essence, this means that discussion of any kind is impossible, since holding anything even slightly at odds with the opponents point of view will be viewed as a hostile, personal attack. Sometimes this can be a fuzzy area, but it bears taking a step back and asking whether the attack is really an attack on the person, or on the matter being discussed.

Once again, I apologize to the members here for allowing myself to argue in open forum.

I should have done as Mythmod stated, and just yelled at my monitor and moved on.

I brought the attitude of the thread down and degraded myself.

I was wrong for entering and continuing the argument.

First off, thanks to everyone who has posted here and expressed their opinions. This thread had given me some things to think about.

Next, I am intrigued with MythMod's "Squeaky wheel" comment. Would it be worthwhile to organized a complain to DC calling for more caution towards newbies?

Finally; I'm not trying to argue, but an curious, what is the best way to deal with the ones who pull the "Well, we don't know EVERYTHING, so it may be possible" or some related line? I'm not sure how to handle those. I'm sure I've handled it wrong in the past, so how can I improve?

If they pull that line and stick to it - email me a link to that thread.

I might not know everything, but I can sure take the wind out of sails.

MythMod

[quote]"Well, we don't know EVERYTHING, so it may be possible"[/quote]

Answer; No, we don't know everything. We do however know enough to know that *insert myth/topic here* is impossible.