I have to admit, this isn't a subject I know a ton about. And I really don't have an opinion on that matter. So, out of curiosity, I'm looking for more information on this and other people's opinions. But here is my current stance on it.
It's not really needed any more. Few dogs really need tail docking, most tail docking was used for hunting purposes, and today not enough dogs are used for hunting. What was ear cropping used for? I do know that ear cropping is a more painful procedure, and can cause more health problems for the dog.
On the other hand, as long as it is done by a professional under five days of age, there's no pain involved. Some dogs do need tail docking as the tail may have too much fur at the base and can cause infections. On top of that, we've all just grown used to dogs with docked tails. Some people see a rottie with an undocked tail and they assume it's a mutt.
But as I said, I don't know a ton about it and I'm not finding a ton of helpful information for either side. I don't show dogs, so there's no reason for me to ever get a dog's tail docked. And cropped ears are interesting, but I like the floppy ears anyway. So any additional information and opinions would be great. I hate being on the sideline of any debate and this is one I have no opinion about.
I do not think it's true that the dogs do not feel any pain during the procedure.
I feel like it's another human excuse to be "better" then other living creatures and put our desires on them willfully.
I don't think it's needed anymore either, but for breed standards in showing I understand. However, with the handful of breeders that actually show, it really isn't need by all. Pets don't care if they have a stubby tail or cropped ears.
My JRT cross gets phantom pains in her tail all the time from where it was cropped.
Let a dog loose in a park, what a wonderful idea(sarcasm).
But why should only the dog showers be allowed to dock dog's tails and ears? As you said, it's the breed standard. People looking at the breed standards will expect a dog with a docked tail. Then they'll take their dog and have cropping done. I say docking for all, or none at all.
My airedale has a docked tail. She had it when I rescued her. I know that the reason for the airedale docked tail was because of hunting, not many airedales do hunting any more. But do you know any dogs that have health problems because of undocked tails? I've heard it can in the Old English Sheepdogs.
Another method of docking tails is using the rubber band method. Is there any pain using that method?
With tail docking there should be a couple of things enforced. First: all docking should be done by a professional. Second: After a certain age, unless because of medical problems, no tail docking. As for cropping ears, that is painful. And unnecessary.
One other thing I've heard with tail docking. Dogs with undocked tails are wary around dogs with docked tails. I can believe that. But there's no information as to the communication signals a dog with a docked tail sends out. Are they using other signals just as noticeable without tails? And does that affect dogs with undocked tails?
i dont care about tail docking but to me like when an AST has its ears cropped they look more regal(sp) and i think banning cropping is stupid. they say its unnecissary but some people get it done for a reason. down here its cuz of hog hunting and show. if you ban ear cropping then you should ban cosmetic surgery in general (for the most part) all those face lifts and stuff
If the ears need to be docked because of hunting reasons, then that's a valid reason. But ear docking isn't done when the pup is five days old. The dog will need to have surgery done to his ears and then his ears will have to be bandaged up and you have to make sure he doesn't scratch at his ears. It's a long and painful process just to make a dog look 'regal.' In the case of ear cropping, if there's a special, specific reason, then it will have to be done.
But people choose to get cosmetic surgery. Wether it's for stupid reasons or not, it's their choice. Dogs can't make that choice. And in the case of ear cropping, it's painful. Ear cropping is being done less today as well. In my opinion, the ear cropping does nothing to make a dog look any more beautiful. My aunt's minpin doesn't have cropped ears, and it just doesn't matter.
Docking for all is not unnecessary. Take badkittyamy for instance, she shows Rottwieler's with full tail.
I've never heard of health problems for a dog having a tail, and I think that was probably put forth by pro-dockers as part of their propoganda. Natural body parts do not cause harm to dogs health.
The rubber band method is horrible. It is cruel, lazy, cheap and very painful, not to mention a breeding ground for bacteria.
Dogs are unable to read tail signals from dogs with docked tails. Any one who has a dog has witnessed the signals a tail has. Dog also communicate with ears and body posture, but the tail adds. It can create confusion.
its their dog though if they want their dog's ears cropped or tail docked they should be able to do it. its like you dont want people telling you how to raise your kids or how to train your dog
But you don't want dogs to suffer. pitt-man, if you take that stance then it's saying that we have no right to stop people from chaining dogs outside.
It's not right to tell people how to train dogs, but if a dog is harmed, then yes, we have a right to say something about it. The same as if a child was getting abused.
And the more about docking and cropping I hear, the less I like it. I never liked ear cropping anyway, but tail docking just isn't needed any more. And for that reason alone: why do it?
I don't really see what ear cropping does for a dog, I mean to each their own, but in my opinion it's a pain in the bum to take care of them afterwards, not to mention they are (as you said) painful for the dog - as is any surgery.
I won't lie and say I don't enjoy the look or docked tails, because I do - I really do. I think (ACDs anyway) it gives them a certain look I don't know how to explain. I think it is all right to do if it is (as also stated) done professionally and with as little trauma to the pup as possible. But lets not forget that some breeds are born with stumpy tails!
you cant compare ear crooping to chaining a dog up. ear cropping- yes its painful at first but once its healed its ok. chaining- causes aggression, both animal and human, can hurt the dog slicing through the neck, and possibly strangle the dog to death. abusing a dog or even a child is illegal cropping a dogs ears is not and if you do get them done by a pro then there should be no problem
Originally posted by pitt-man: you cant compare ear crooping to chaining a dog up. ear cropping- yes its painful at first but once its healed its ok. chaining- causes aggression, both animal and human, can hurt the dog slicing through the neck, and possibly strangle the dog to death. abusing a dog or even a child is illegal cropping a dogs ears is not and if you do get them done by a pro then there should be no problem
Why would you purposely harm an animal at all, just because you think it looks good? The animal has no conception of how it looks.
Not to mention cropping/docking is outlawed in countless countries and areas. Illegal to many.
It's bad news. Just another example of man exploiting animals. There is no excuse for it.
But as angeeleeta said, her dog has phantom pains. So it can affect some dogs in different ways. Honestly, a little nub tail does look cute. I can't argue with that. But that's just the thing. It looks cute. And that is not a valid reason to do it. Dogs don't care how they look, or else some poodles out there would have some major self-esteem issues. If they don't care, and we only do it for looks, why should we?
I don't see the point in cropping ears, honestly. But then one could argue with me why do I like docked tails. And everyone here brings up very good points; both in opinion and in fact. I was under the impression that if done professionally the puppy really felt nothing, missed nothing, and was fine. I have never heard of these phantom pains; but who am I to say it isn't true. Remington and Tempi along with other dogs I know with docked tails have never shown any kind of behavior like this; but each dog probably takes it differently. As for dogs not liking dogs with docked tails, I have never seen that either.
Perhaps we shouldn't be dictating a dogs looks for our own self-satisfaction, but then again these dogs developed because of us - so what is the whole deal here? I would say it's all up to you, and what you individually think. If a dog is born with a tail and flopping ears; so be it. If you want to dock/crop then do your research and see if you still think it is a good idea. In my opinion, if the puppy/dog comes with a docked tail/cropped ears from where you're getting it (EX Breeder, friend, rescue, shelter, etc.) then I would leave it as that since there is obviously nothing you can do - unless you go elsewhere for your puppy/dog.
If I were a breeder, (which I'm not - and probably never would be) and wanted an ACD pup with a stumpy tail, and classic ACD look, I would get an ASTCD (Australian Stumpy Tail Cattle Dog) and breed it with an ACD, to get a sort of "hybrid" if you will - since there isn't too huge a difference between the two breeds in looks nor in temperament. I wouldn't sell them, but instead keep them for myself and be happy with what I got. The breeder I got Remington from did just that; except she sells them and calls them ACDs - when in fact they're ACD/ASTCDs. So some dogs are BORN with stumpy tails - and the thing is picking out those who were docked, and those who are au naturale.
I was thinking over night about what I wrote, and please don't take this as like a "goldendoodle" thing. I wouldn't make a massive selling on these little guys (the ACD/ASTCD), nor would I claim they're a purebred. I might call them just a Stumpy Tail / Australian Cattle Dog combo. I would want to keep them all home with me - as my pets, being one litter or two max. I'm sure some of you are against that, but I'm just saying it is an option. There are ways to get a dog with a stumpy tail, without having it docked. But if you're looking for a purepred (say Rottie) well, then I just don't know what to say.
Actually, some years back someone did something like that with a dog. They wanted a boxer with a naturally docked tail. They bred a Pembroke Welsh Corgi into this mix, which is born with no tail. After some generations breeding. He actually managed to get all corgi traits out of the boxer, except for the short tail. Of course, he couldn't show the dog because of the mixed breed lineage. But it is something very interesting. And maybe in the future it's something for experienced breeders to consider.
MS walk? My grandfather has pretty bad MS. Can you do that with your dogs? But, thank you!
Yes you can do it with your dog(s). I brought my ACD Remington for the 6 mile walk, and we accomplished it in less than two hours - at a very quick pace. We ate food (hotdogs mostly!), listened to some music, and got pins and medals! It was a good time - not to mention for a good cause. I personally raised $145.
i don't like either practice but i do feel tail docking is worse. tails do a LOT for the dogs balance.
Also if hunting dogs needed their tail docked why do so many of the breeds bred for hunting not call for them to be docked? Same with herding, if a gsd is a herding dog and keeps it's tail why does a rott as a herding dog need it taken off to prevent damage. BS if you ask me. it has nothing to do with anything but personal want.
german's use their dogs in intense sports and they don't dock if a tail was going to get damaged that would be the time.
